MUS vs. Saxon help

[No More Perfect]

I need other minds to help me think this through.

 

My 10yo dd will be in 5th grade this upcoming school year, so beginning the logic stage. We have been using MUS the past couple of years and I love MUS because it enables me to teach a subject I dislike. She is like her mother and is not overly fond of math but would rather read and write. She is finishing up Gamma. I noticed this week - took me a while! - that she does fine with the regular problems but really struggles on word problems, which I do think is MUS's weakness in not providing enough instruction or experience with word problems. I am also concerned that when she gets to college that MUS may not have prepared her enough for college level math since she is not strong in math anyway.

 

So, I am considering switching her to Saxon.

 

The cons of switching from MUS to Saxon are:

 

1) I will be teaching her without the MUS videos which really help me learn to teach her. How easy is it for a mom who's bent is not towards liking math to teach Saxon?

 

2) Switching may not be necessary. Could I find a workbook in her level that gives her supplemental word problems to work on? Would that be sufficient?

 

3) She would not be learning at the relaxed pace that MUS offers.

 

 

The pros of switching from MUS to Saxon are:

 

1) A new approach towards math may help her discover math isn't so bad. Maybe MUS just isn't her thing?

 

2) She may be more prepared for college math.

 

3) It would force her to challenge herself which is important to me.

 

 

What would you do? What am I missing in thinking through this?

 

Thanks!

[wapiti]

Why not just supplement MUS with word problem instruction and practice from elsewhere, such as SM's CWP books?

 

MUS has such a different scope and sequence that this might not be the best time to switch. Assuming MUS is going well for now other than the word problem work you seek, perhaps switch after MUS prealgebra level (which, from what I've read, includes random topics typically covered earlier in other programs).

 

What to use for secondary math is an entirely different question, one that does not have to be answered yet. There are loads of options other than MUS and Saxon.

[Jenn121]

I personally would not switch her from a curriculum that is working for her and you. If the it were only one or two areas that were in need of help I would supplement.

 

Saxon (from what I have heard) is spiral (MUS is mastery) and very heavy on review and busywork.

 

Others can probably tell about which programs to supplement with but this is just my gut reaction to your situation.

[No More Perfect]

Thanks! I was leaning towards just finding a supplement as well, however I really have no idea where to find a supplement for just word problems. Any ideas?

[wapiti]

Thanks! I was leaning towards just finding a supplement as well, however I really have no idea where to find a supplement for just word problems. Any ideas?

 

Singapore's Challenging Word Problems

[Pen]

My favorite word problem book(s) has/ve been The Critical Thinking Company's book(s) by Anita Harnadek. The first 60 or so problems used the same numbers over and over again, but with different scenarios so the child had to decide whether to multiply, add, subtract or divide with those numbers. It required thinking about the problem and what was the needed answer. I had tried Singapore's CWP before that, but found the CTC books much more what my ds needed, not so much tricky questions suitable for bar model solutions as the sort of questions that come up again and again in real life. You can get the CTC books via Rainbow or Critical Thinking itself, and other sources too I'm sure. I got my first via RR from the RR description, and was so pleased I went on to get a lot more from CTC that I have also liked very much, including other things suitable to logic stage work--for which I think it might get mentioned as a source by TWTM.

[happypamama]

Lots of free ones here: http://www.fi.edu/math/index.html

[Joyful_Journey]

We've used Evan Moor Daily Word Problems books which have worked great for my kids as they work through the MUS levels. I would definitely not describe my kids as "mathy" or math lovers. Evan Moor seems to be a good match for them, as they encounter a greater variety of word problems than they receive in MUS. The complexity of the problems is manageable for them, but they occasionally need help with a problem. Overall, I've been pretty pleased with the series.

[Lori D.]

Rather than switching away from a math program that is working, I suggest supplementing in the area that is weaker -- word problems. A few ideas of programs that encourage problem-solving and making math connections:

 

- Art of Problem Solving: Beast Academy (this would be my first suggestion for you)

- Rainbow Resource has loads of word problem supplements (examples: Word Problem Workout: Strategic Approach, and Applying Problem Solving Strategies -- plus, they also carry the Singapore Primary Word Problems and Singapore Challenging)

 

Or for a program to use as a supplement:

- Singapore (you could use just the challenging word problems, OR... go with the 3A/3B teacher book and student workbook, to learn the "bar method" of how to visualize what you know and what you need to find out for word problems is first introduced; you can skim over topics that DD is solid in, and then take your time on other topics, and see them from a different perspective to help develop math thinking and math connections)

- Life of Fred

 

There are many ways to include a math supplement:

- Do your math "spine" lesson in the morning, then in the afternoon spend 20 minutes on the supplement.

- Do the "spine" 4 days a week, and the supplement on the 5th.

- Do a unit, or several weeks -- a 9-week quarter -- using just the "spine" and then do a unit, or several weeks on the supplement.

- Do the supplement as "summer bridge math".

 

 

In answer to your "pros" about switching to Saxon:

 

I would NOT recommend Saxon if you are looking for a program that helps with word problem solving. The farther up the levels you go in Saxon, the more abstract it becomes (non visual/concrete, as MUS is), and the more focused on memorization of formulas and "plug and chug" (select the right type of formula based on the wording of the word problem, and then plugging in the numbers for that specific problem and "chugging" away through the steps to get to the answer) -- rather than developing strategies for understanding what the word problem is looking for and how to solve based on what you know.

 

There are video tutorials on the DIVE CDs for each level of Saxon, but they are based on teaching algorithms and steps of equations, rather than the visual method of "big picture" explanation found in MUS, so if you, the parent, are connecting with MUS's style of instruction, it is likely that Saxon will NOT be a good fit for YOU, especially as you move into the more difficult math topics.

 

I did use Saxon as a supplement for my older DS -- but he is very math-minded and can deal with abstract math topics. My younger DS is a very visual-spatial learner, and connected with MUS as his "spine" math, and we used Singapore as a supplement to help strengthen his problem-solving skills, word problems, and making math connections.

 

I do NOT think Saxon is the program that will encourage any student who is not overly-fond of math into thinking "math is not so bad." Honestly, I think Saxon would push most such students farther away from liking math, with the far-more-problems per page, and by becoming increasingly abstract in presentation (focus on equations and numbers rather than showing/seeing how/why it works). :eek:

 

Supplementing with other materials to show math from a variety of view points and which also encourages making math-connections and math thinking is FAR more likely to increase your DD's success with math in college, than switching to a math program that does not present math to her in the way she first and best connects with understanding the concepts. JMO!

 

 

Don't get me wrong: Saxon is a fine program -- but for specific types of students and parents. With the information you provided in your post, my initial reaction is that Saxon would not be the best fit for your family.

 

 

Good for you, seeing a weaker area, and looking for something to strengthen it! BEST of luck to you and DD, whatever you go with. Warmest regards, Lori D.