Twins and HS'ing

[Mom2TheTeam]

I have 2 sets of twins, 27 months apart. The older is 5 and just started K a few weeks ago. (I wanted to start till fall, but one of them was begging and has been for quite a while.) And, just for anyone interested, my second set will be 3 this Saturday. I also have a 7 year old and a 5.5 month old.

 

I'm hoping to hear from some BTDT moms of twins or more.

 

1. My daughter is slightly ahead of my son, but not enough to make a difference at this point. However, she is MUCH more interested in working and she is going to very quickly pass him by. She is constantly asking for more, more, more. We use MFW K, but I supplement with all sorts of free worksheets online and workbooks I have at home. I'm actually running out of things because she is going through my resources so fast. I was thinking I'd buy her Rod and Staff workbooks. But my issue is...do I buy a set for both of them??? He doesn't do nearly as much as she does. I don't really want to spend the money on a set that he might not use or might only use very sparingly. I know if I get them for her and not him, it's going to be an issue....there is no question about that...he will feel slighted. So, I'm just not sure what to do.....any advice on one who wants so much more than the other?

 

2. My boy has a negative attitude most days about doing school. It's a personality issue that he struggles with in many areas not just school. So, every.single.day she wants to do schoo, but he sometimes misses. I'm okay with him being hit or miss, but how do I then keep the core of the program moving if he is missing days? Do I give her busy work, which she loves, and wait till the next day to move along in our core curriculum? Do I let him miss actual days and end up with them working the same curriculum but at different points? (I really don't want to do that...remember, they aren't my only 2 kids.) Do I force him to do it, which I'm not all that interested in doing for several reasons?

 

3. Ultimately, they are probably going to end up on different levels....how hard should I push to avoid that...or do I push at all?

 

4. I've been told it is a good idea to always do phonics and math separate regardless of whether they are on the same level or not....do you agree?

 

When I first started HS'ing, I thought having twins would make it a little easier because they would be in the same "grade." But now I'm not so sure....any other tips for HS'ing twins?

[AdventureMoms]

I have no useful advice, but I'm subbing for future reference! (My twins are 2yo)

[wapiti]

1. if you get him a set of workbooks, will he use it eventually, even if it's not at the same time as his sister?

2. Opinions may vary on this, but I would not allow day-skipping, even for K, if it's a designated "school day". It's too easy to "not feel like doing schoolwork."

3. They will end up at different levels. They may switch around. They may be ahead and behind each other in different subjects and in different years. Instead of focusing on where they are in relation to each other, I would focus on where they are in relation to their own, individual ability levels at the current time (their abilities may change over time, shooting ahead, plateauing, etc.). My goal would be to maximize their learning compared to their potential in a given subject area.

4. I agree with this.

Edited January 12, 2016 by wapiti

[Jilly]

I think most of us with twins eventually end up using different math/LAs curriculum with them as they get older. With my b/g twins I didn't need to do this until they were around 8 or so, but that might be because when they were younger we were very unschooly. We did not use formal curriculum, so there was no need to worry about their different learning styles or abilities.

 

If I was you I would follow their lead. If your daughter is very academic I would feed that with whatever she wants. If your son is less so, I would find out what his interests are and where his strengths lie. Maybe he would love more hands-on items to work on. There are many ways to advance him academically, and it does not need to look the same as his sister. Also it might change over time. My son was on a very different time frame than his sister. Everything academically came so easy to her when they were young. Now though my son is much more academic than his sister. He is the one who reads all the classics for hours a day, while she is off being creative.

[Mom2TheTeam]

I answered in bold inside the quote. I played around with the color and edited several times, but decided my eyes really preferred the black. LOL.

 

 

 

1. if you get him a set of workbooks, will he use it eventually, even if it's not at the same time as his sister?

 

Probably not. He will probably learn the same things with less busy work, KWIM? I have many workbooks that I've bought at Costco, Target, and Dollar Tree. I always buy double, but he often doesn't use his or only uses it partially, just enough so that I can't really reuse it with a younger child. *sigh* Of course, as soon as I don't buy it, he'll ask for it and get VERY upset when he realizes he doesn't have one.

 

2. Opinions may vary on this, but I would not allow day-skipping, even for K, if it's a designated "school day". It's too easy to "not feel like doing schoolwork."

 

The reason I don't care is because I only started them in K now because she wanted to. IMO, he would be better off waiting till fall when he is almost 6, like his older brother was when he started K. (Which is when they would start K if they were going to PS.) It is a maturity issue with him and his older brother was the same. If it wasn't for her, I wouldn't be starting now. I actually had every intention of only doing it 2-3 days a week or alternate them to start them slowly, but she is constantly asking and I don't want to "hold her back". If I could start one and not the other, I would have done that, but as I'm sure you know, that wouldn't work. When fall comes, it won't be optional anymore and they will officially be K'ers.

 

And, he actually rarely fully misses a day. I explained more originally, but then cut it out to keep the rambling to a minimum since I tend to ramble. Usually, our school time goes like this...Me: "Okay, come sit and the table for school." Him: "I can't do school. I stink at school." Me: "No you don't. Sit down and lets get started." Him: "I'm not doing it." Cross arms, turn head to the side and stomp off to the stairs to sulk. Me: "Son, if you don't come do, you are going to miss out on the fun stuff we do." Rest of us get started (reading, memorization, calendar...) while he sulks in earshot, clearly listening because he will occasionally respond to something I say. ;) I do individual stuff with sister. Usually, just as I'm finishing up with her (which is perfect timing), he comes over and says, "fine. I'll do school." Then he does it and often tells me it's fun and he likes doing school. This happens almost everyday. Very rarely does he not decide to come back. With 6 kids 7 and under, I truly don't have time to cater to him and try to coax him to come over, which rarely works anyway.

 

3. They will end up at different levels. They may switch around. They may be ahead and behind each other in different subjects and in different years. Instead of focusing on where they are in relation to each other, I would focus on where they are in relation to their own, individual ability levels at the current time (their abilities may change over time, shooting ahead, plateauing, etc.). My goal would be to maximize their learning compared to their potential in a given subject area.

 

Thanks! I know I need to not compare them...but it's hard. Since they are the same age, it comes naturally to want them to be doing the same things, especially since it's easier to have them both doing the same thing. I need to just accept that they aren't going to be on the same level, which I do already know but seem to be fighting.

 

4. I agree with this.

 

I have been teaching them separately. So, I'll keep doing that.

 

It is tricky to have twins who have very similar ability levels but different personalities. I am not hs-ing my 10 y.o. twins, but they are in different classrooms and have ended up at two different levels in math, for example. The one who is "behind" the other is still ahead of grade level, but his self-confidence continues to take a hit because he knows his twin is more advanced than he is - it's a vicious cycle. He has perfectionistic/underachieving tendancies and wants to avoid the hard thinking. In his Montessori school, avoidance of advanced work is quite possible if the teacher isn't paying close attention or has an inside-the-box, PS-grade-level perspective. It's been a struggle to convince him that he's equally capable (I have the IQ testing to prove it, though that's not something I can show him) - he only feels that way when he actually accomplishes a difficult task, but he prefers not to try because he fears failure. Ugh.

 

To last paragraph in general: This is my son. He gets very discouraged when he can't do what the others (7 year old brother included) can or when his picture isn't as good...in his eyes, I think he does awesome. I truly don't see the imperfections in his work he sees...except when he cuts...he is left handed and really struggles with cutting. He is very smart. In fact, I have no doubt he would have the higher IQ, though I have never tested them and don't plan to, not that I'm against it, I just have no need. But, if he can't do it perfect the first time, he doesn't even want to try. He is very negative. It's frustrating, but I'm determined to learn how to teach him even with his difficult negativity. :smash:

 

Thank you very much for your input. I found it very helpful. :)

 

Edited April 1, 2013 by Mom2TheTeam

[wapiti]

He will probably learn the same things with less busy work, KWIM?

He does not sound like a student who would do well with busy work anyway. I would not bother.

 

Usually, just as I'm finishing up with her (which is perfect timing), he comes over and says, "fine. I'll do school." Then he does it and often tells me it's fun and he likes doing school. This happens almost everyday. Very rarely does he not decide to come back. With 6 kids 7 and under, I truly don't have time to cater to him and try to coax him to come over, which rarely works anyway.

...

 

To last paragraph in general: This is my son. He gets very discouraged when he can't do what the others (7 year old brother included) can or when his picture isn't as good...in his eyes, I think he does awesome. I truly don't see the imperfections in his work he sees...except when he cuts...he is left handed and really struggles with cutting. He is very smart. In fact, I have no doubt he would have the higher IQ, though I have never tested them and don't plan to, not that I'm against it, I just have no need. But, if he can't do it perfect the first time, he doesn't even want to try. He is very negative. It's frustrating, but I'm determined to learn how to teach him even with his difficult negativity.

FWIW, I would be very wary of letting him "slide" even though he's uncooperative and it's irritating and time-consuming (if I had a nickel for every time I uttered "I don't have time for this, ds!!!"). IME, perfectionism and schoolwork avoidance doesn't get better that way. It gets worse. If this is happening every day, what's the difference with having days where there's time for the coaxing and days where there isn't? Unfortunately I don't have an easy answer, though I'd look for another approach. Good luck!!

[Mom2TheTeam]

I only have 1 hand....

 

What is VSL?

[wapiti]

I have another important thought - if he is a vsl (visual-spatial learner) and/or 2e (bright with learning issues) your current curriculum choices could be a poor fit if they are more traditional, and accordingly could contribute to the lack of cooperation. I'll write more when I'm not on my phone....

 

Eta, VSL - see, e.g., here. If this seems to be the case, I'd look for hands-on, big-picture methods (e.g., Miquon for math) and explore where his strengths may be.

[Farrar]

I have 8 yo twins.

 

Here's my thoughts. Put them in different programs for key things like math and group them together for content. In the early years, content is usually done together anyway (read alouds, projects, science experiments, documentaries, etc.) and skill subjects are usually much more individual with children moving at their own pace. I split my boys relatively early into different math programs and different writing focuses and I think it eliminates as sense of competition. I think with four kids this would be harder, but on the other hand, if they're going at different paces anyway, then it's not like you're sitting giving one lesson anyway, you know? Just let them be in different places.

 

I think it's tough for younger kids who have such a different school time drive. Mine have progressed at different paces for different things, but they've mostly had the same level of attention (at least, when you average it out). I think I would make there be a clear school time routine. However, for you ds who is less interested, I think you can keep an element of choice in there. For example, maybe there's the first part of school time where you decide the agenda and the second part where they pick from different things - your dd sounds like she'll want to keep right on with worksheets and so forth, but maybe your ds will want to look at books... Lego books and pictures of wild animal books, or watch Brainpop videos or play Starfall games or something that is clearly lighter and not as schooly - and maybe he gets breaks in there too - a ten minute run around or a five minute jump on the trampoline card or whatever, that she doesn't need. That's just how I would handle it to try to balance establishing a routine and a sense that "this is school time and we all do some form of school" vs. the fact that they're very young. If you had a singleton, you'd just have an amount of time catered to that one child's level of attention, you know?

 

I've tried very hard to emphasize that we all have different strengths and weaknesses - different gifts and trials. And that no one is "ahead" or "behind" - that we're where we're supposed to be, but it's not always the same place. When my ds who read later than his brother wasn't reading much, I tried to show him how he loved stories so much - probably more than his brother and that eventually he might be a better reader. And now he is the one who is interested in longer books and more complex stories, even if he reads a little slower still.

[Farrar]

One more thought... I feel like I constantly have to check myself with comparing their abilities. It's impossible not to and I'm sure that singleton parents do the same thing with their kids (as in, gee, older kid was reading such and such by this age!) but it's something I feel like I have to push against because the comparison is right there. And because they aren't in a class full of peers, it always has this feel as if one child is at one end of the spectrum for math or reading or whatever, while the other is at the other end - like one is amazing and the other is a total dunce - when actually if I threw them in with their peers, they'd both be in the middle. So I feel like I have to always tell myself to pull the camera lens back and see that. As well, that I have to focus on their individuality and unique strengths. So it's not Mushroom reads at such and such a level, but Mushroom read this specific book and talked about this specific thing he liked. That helps me stay focused on those individual gifts and trials instead of trying to plot them on some number line against each other.

[sbgrace]

I had a similar situation. I actually just held off on formal schooling until my less ready child was closer to ready. I'm not big on starting formal academics early, so waiting didn't bug me. Once we started both kids do school whenever we do school. I think it would set poor precedent to let him avoid what you have planned.

 

I would not, though, give busy work to the resistant child just because his sister likes it. Perhaps you could just make those materials available to anyone who wants to use them but make it clear they are for those who wish do work on them and not part of school. I'd probably buy his own book and assume he might use it someday just to avoid slighting him. I wouldn't expect those Rod and Staff workbooks to keep her busy long though. I wonder about also getting her materials--idea books, craft books and supplies, etc. that would fill her need for directed activities but be more meaningful, and time consuming, than the workbook pages.

 

I think most twin moms would think it ideal to have them work their own paces and materials. For ease here I have kept my boys in the same levels. I do individually accommodate, though, within the same base material and roughly the same pace. This means that we do those core academic subjects--all language arts and math instruction--individually. I can adapt to each child and, ideally, neither knows how his brother is doing compared to himself.

 

As far as tips--I think it's hard not to compare. I have kids who are very different. One has a proficiency in language arts while the other is more of a math type kid. It's hard for me not to worry when boy x is struggling with something his brother gets so easily. I have to keep reminding myself that comparing two kids gives me absolutely no idea of what is actually typical or normal.

[jenn-]

There are some subjects that I hold the boys to the same spot in. These are the subjects they still rely heavily on me for reading (history, grammar, and science). I hate reading aloud, so I sure am not doing it more than once.

 

Their individual subjects are math and reading. For a really long time I tried to keep them together for math. One twin would get his two pages done in 10 minutes, the other would take an hour. Finally I made the faster one work for 30 minutes on his math each day no matter what the number of sheets. Because of this, he is about 10 chapters ahead of his brother (he slowed down as the problems got into multi digit multiplication and now with multi digit division).

 

In reading, they flip flop and my stronger math student is my weaker reader. I just make sure they have books on hand that match their reading skills.

[Mom2TheTeam]

I had a similar situation. I actually just held off on formal schooling until my less ready child was closer to ready. I'm not big on starting formal academics early, so waiting didn't bug me. Once we started both kids do school whenever we do school. I think it would set poor precedent to let him avoid what you have planned.

 

I can see this point....of setting a bad precedent....maybe I should have made her wait. The reason I didn't is because I feel like I've already been putting her off for so long. She's been begging me for quite a while. I got her some pre-K stuff to do this school year, but they both breezed through it very quickly. I just felt like I didn't want to hold her back...but I also don't want to push him forward...which is why I've been letting him out of it if he doesn't want to do it. As I said, I don't think he's ever not actually done it. But, you are right, I'm setting a precedent and I should stop that.

 

I would not, though, give busy work to the resistant child just because his sister likes it. Perhaps you could just make those materials available to anyone who wants to use them but make it clear they are for those who wish do work on them and not part of school. I'd probably buy his own book and assume he might use it someday just to avoid slighting him. I wouldn't expect those Rod and Staff workbooks to keep her busy long though. I wonder about also getting her materials--idea books, craft books and supplies, etc. that would fill her need for directed activities but be more meaningful, and time consuming, than the workbook pages.

 

I don't make him do anything that isn't planned/included in our curriculum, which is not many worksheets at all, 1 or so a day...some days none. I print the pages for both, but they both know they are optional. She LOVES workbook pages. I definitely don't push them on her or him. Everything she does is extra after we are done with the actual work and is done while I'm working with her brother. I wish I could devote more time to working with her rather than giving her worksheets to do, but I have a 5.5 month old and almost 3 year old twins and I have to teach her older brother too. We can barely get everything in as it is because of constantly being derailed by the youngers.

 

I don't know how to say this without it sounding bad, but I can't let her do crafts without the other kids. My 3 year olds would cause trouble and end up throwing a tantrum if I didn't let them do it too, which I couldn't if I wanted to get anything done with my 7 year old. My 7 year old would not be able to focus at all, especially if I was helping the 3 year olds and both 5 year olds, because her twin would want to make one too. Everyone else doing a craft and him doing copywork or something does not work. So, it sounds good and I wish it would work, but it would not work right now.

 

I think most twin moms would think it ideal to have them work their own paces and materials. For ease here I have kept my boys in the same levels. I do individually accommodate, though, within the same base material and roughly the same pace. This means that we do those core academic subjects--all language arts and math instruction--individually. I can adapt to each child and, ideally, neither knows how his brother is doing compared to himself.

 

This is the plan. Separate for LA and math and together for everything else. I'd like them on the same level, but that just may not be possible. Only time will tell.....

 

ETA - Oops! I pushed submit too soon!

 

Thank you very much for your thoughts. Your explanation of setting a bad precedent really made sense to me. Of some parenting issues, I often say start where you want to finish so there is no transition. So, that really makes sense to me and we will be working on it. :)

[Sahamamama]

We have 6 year old K'er mono girl twins that are working in every way on the same level. They still compete, LOL. ;) Some things that seem to be working so far:

 

1. Use the competitive spirit when it's useful. Example: I see Ma looking over to Ha's book to check out which math lesson she's doing. I see the spark and surge, ha ha! Motivation! ;) Ma will do another lesson, just to "catch up" to Ha. And vice versa, until I have to tell them to quit for the day.

 

2. Tame the competitive spirit when it's out of hand. Example: I set up our work table so Ha is at the opposite side, on the opposite end, from Ma -- with lots of stuff stacked in the middle (sneaky Mommy). This way, they can't see each others' work. Sometimes I think they need a break from being side-by-side, KWIM?

 

3. Put labels over the levels. Example: If the day ever comes when someone is doing Level A and someone is doing Level B, I am going to put some nice, thick labels over the levels on the front covers. We'll see if it helps to downplay the levels, grades, progress. We're not there yet, they really are neck-and-neck.

 

4. Treat them as individual people, which they are. I've enjoyed teaching my twins to read. I think it's because this is one definite part of our day when I work one-on-one with each of the girls. I spend individual time with them outside of "school time," of course, but in those 10-15 minutes of the daily reading lesson, there is a bond between the child (as Student) and me (as Teacher-Mommy). It's tender and precious. Set aside some part of the learning day to work for even 10 minutes with that one little child. I think these times give us insight into how to best reach that one child.

 

5. Do what you can together, let the rest go. My twins will work at the table quietly on math for quite a while -- Horizons K and Kumon workbooks. We try to establish a "Quiet Work Period." We say, "The oldest has to concentrate, shhh." They really do the work. It's adorable. Copywork, handwriting, spelling -- together. All group subjects (which are Read Alouds) -- all three girls together. It's the reading lesson that's separate -- the phonics primer (OPG) + Guided Reading (they read to me). I've tutored boys.... and .... well, my two cents? I would not push him. I have three girls... and... well, my two cents? I would not hold her back. They are different children. Just because they were born on the same day, doesn't mean they will walk along the path at the same rate.

 

6. Girls = Glue, glitter, paper, scissors, crayons, markers, and tape. I can never find my tape. :toetap05: If my girls could color, cut, paste, draw, and write all day, they would. To them, it's play. :) Boys, not so much. Perhaps you could establish in your mind, "MFW K is our core, MFW K is our core -- everything else is play time." ;) So the workbooks and worksheets and "extra" things are just that -- extra. It's the way your daughter plays. It isn't the way your son plays. All the same, if you can just say, "MFW K is our core," and focus on getting that done with both children, all the rest is play time. Then, don't compare how they play -- in the sense that HER play "looks like school," while HIS play looks like something else. An extra set of R & S workbooks might eventually get used in your home, right? HTH.

 

My hat is off to you, with two sets of twins + Eldest + Youngest!

[Sahamamama]

I don't know how to say this without it sounding bad, but I can't let her do crafts without the other kids. My 3 year olds would cause trouble and end up throwing a tantrum if I didn't let them do it too, which I couldn't if I wanted to get anything done with my 7 year old, and my 7 year old would not be able to focus at all is she was doing a craft and especially not if I was helping the 2 year olds...about to turn 3...and both 5 year olds, because her twin would want to make one too, all do a craft except him who is doing copywork or something. So, it sounds good and I wish it would work, but it would not work right now.

 

Don't feel bad! I never did crafts (or baking) with my girls when they were toddlers. Well, in truth, I tried it a few times and it was like this: :willy_nilly: :willy_nilly: :willy_nilly: :svengo: I'd rather have a root canal.

 

Anyway, just wait until they are old enough to clean up after themselves, handle scissors and pencils safely, and understand the definition of "a small piece of tape." Or crack an egg... into the bowl.

 

Someday I am going to start a support group: No-Crafts, No-Homemade-Cookies, No-Guilt Mothers Anonymous. Or something like that.

[Um_2_4]

 

 

Someday I am going to start a support group: No-Crafts, No-Homemade-Cookies, No-Guilt Mothers Anonymous. Or something like that.

 

 

This part made me LOL...

My friend/neighbor stopped by once and was FLOORED to find all 4 of my kids sitting at the kitchen table making tissue paper collages (you know, where you tear up tissue paper roll it into balls and use glue (liquid, not sticks) to glue onto paper). The twins were about 2 1/2. I occasionally (like 1x a month) go nuts like that and get out the glitter, paint, etc, etc.

But 99.9% of friends think I'm nuts and kinda don't believe me, until she saw it and told EVERYONE LOL!

[Lucy the Valiant]

I'm the odd mama out here - our twins are 9yo, and they are together in math and LA and everything we do at home. They do have differing levels, but most of the time we are able to work around them. We attend a really awesome co-op on Fridays, and they are split up for that (their choice).

[Mom2TheTeam]

Don't feel bad! I never did crafts (or baking) with my girls when they were toddlers. Well, in truth, I tried it a few times and it was like this: :willy_nilly: :willy_nilly: :willy_nilly: :svengo: I'd rather have a root canal.

 

Anyway, just wait until they are old enough to clean up after themselves, handle scissors and pencils safely, and understand the definition of "a small piece of tape." Or crack an egg... into the bowl.

 

Someday I am going to start a support group: No-Crafts, No-Homemade-Cookies, No-Guilt Mothers Anonymous. Or something like that.

 

 

This part made me LOL...

My friend/neighbor stopped by once and was FLOORED to find all 4 of my kids sitting at the kitchen table making tissue paper collages (you know, where you tear up tissue paper roll it into balls and use glue (liquid, not sticks) to glue onto paper). The twins were about 2 1/2. I occasionally (like 1x a month) go nuts like that and get out the glitter, paint, etc, etc.

But 99.9% of friends think I'm nuts and kinda don't believe me, until she saw it and told EVERYONE LOL!

 

:lol: on both of the above. I actually do crafts with my kids someone often. I do a basic craft (just scissors, glue, and construction paper...Like a Bee out of a B) at least once a week. We don't do anything more involved very often, but we do sometimes. I don't mind it when it's planned and we are all doing it together. It is madness and stressful for me, but the kids really love it. I just can't let anyone get out any crafts if it isn't actually craft time because my 2 year olds would really cause mayhem if I wasn't specifically directing it. We do save more involved activities (which we don't do very often) for when the 2 year olds are napping....but usually we are just trying to finish up the school work we didn't get done when the youngers were derailing us.

 

I'm the odd mama out here - our twins are 9yo, and they are together in math and LA and everything we do at home. They do have differing levels, but most of the time we are able to work around them. We attend a really awesome co-op on Fridays, and they are split up for that (their choice).

 

This is really what I want. I don't know if it can happen...especially not twice. But, of course, I've done lots of things with my twins that others said I probably couldn't. ;) Only time will tell....