Natural Consequence for hitting sibling?

[llm]

Hello Everyone,

 

My husband and I feel the use of natural/logical consequences with our children is beneficial. Our oldest (5 yrs, 4 months) hit his brother i(2 years, 9 months) in the face this morning when his brother was whining. Yesterday, he scratched his brother's back that drew some blood when his brother stepped on his Lego creation. It's tough b/c I do understand that his brother needs to learn a consequence for knocking things down/destroying creations, but, at the same time, I am not sure how to teach that to younger brother. I would like them to figure out things together without getting physical.

 

We are expecting our 3rd child any day now. I understand we are all dealing with changes in the home right now and I am doing my best, at 9 months pregnant, to meet everyone's needs and stay rested for labor/delivery/post partum. But this behavior is unacceptable. My instinct would be to spank him or make him uncomfortable, but I am not sure if that makes sense--- physical for physical.

 

I did ask him, "How do you think your brother feels? How would YOU feel if that happened to you?" He at first told me he didn't "remember" what happened, then he told me that he would "like" it if that happened (sassiness).

 

My heart is breaking--- for the 2 year old and for what our 5 year old must be going thru to behave this way. On top of that, I am just anxious with everything else going on right now.

 

Thank you for any help/advice/tips!!!!

[SKL]

TBH, I spanked for those incidents and they stopped immediately and long-term. I realize this is controversial. But in my observation, when an elder child repeatedly hits/hurts a younger sibling, violence is often hardwired in to the younger's brain, and that's hard to eradicate. IMO a spanking doesn't "teach" a child to hurt, when the child is already hurting people. I'm talking about giving one immediate swat that gets the child's attention, stating why, then moving on.

[Murmer]

You could have the child do special things for the younger sibling that they hurt.

[llm]

Thank you. I appreciate it! YES--- I am worried about the younger one. What broke my heart the most was when the younger one had huge tears on his face and said, "I want [him to] stop doing that". Sometimes I do think that physical intervention helps alert the child that this is serious and will not be tolerated. And good idea to do special thing for sibling--- I like that. Thank you! I still cry just thinking about it!!!!

[Whereneverever]

I would do a combination of things.

 

I would keep him within army's reach. I would explain, in short, non guilty words, that since he is having a hard time using his hands in a nice fashion that he needs to be close so I can help.

 

I would have him do something nice for younger brother, every incident. When we hurt someone, we try to make it right.

 

I would see if he is getting enough time with just you. As hard as it is now, it will be harder with a newborn.

 

I would also try to direct play for a little while. Are the certain activities that tend to be contentious? Avoid them. Make sure they are getting enough physical activity.

 

I would not spank him. Ymmv.

 

A new baby is stress and I would seek to help him work through it, not punish him.

[catz]

One thing I'd do is make sure oldest has his own space and place to keep his own stuff that he doesn't necessarily have to share. If he wants to build legos alone, I would find a table space or something and allow him to do that for a while. My kids are almost 4 years apart, and this made a huge difference for my older. My daughter was 1 to 2 when my son was most excited about doing legos. Even when my daughter was just starting to crawl, I would let her mess up his stuff and I would let him hear me say "No no Suzie, Billy's legos are not for you" and we'd move him to a "safe" place even though she didn't care and I would repeat it 20,000 times. So at least, when I did need to intervene on his behavoir, he knew I respected him and his stuff and space. I trained him to ask for help when his sister was getting up in his grill. Once I did that, I had very little to no issues with hitting, etc.

 

I would absolutely not tolerate hitting or scratching at all either, and some of the other suggestions here have been great. One piece of advice right after I had my 2nd from a more experienced parent was to average the age of the kids involved and have that expectation of behavior out of both kids. I was an oldest kid (only by 18 months), and I was ALWAYS the one that had to step up and be the big kid. I think I've eliminated a lot of jealousies here by having this approach. Even at 12, I notice my son acting differently with his teen friends vs. his sister's 8 year old friends. And I'm only talking about interactions with each other, not in general. My son does have 12 year old work load and responsibilities and privileges.

[laundrycrisis]

1. I teach that physical retaliation, toward ther other person's body or property, is never acceptable. No matter what one does to the other's stuff, no matter how mad you are, it's never okay to hit or otherwise attempt to hurt the other (which is exactly why spanking is also not acceptable here - it would be teaching the opposite of this), or take or destroy the other kid's stuff out of revenge.

 

2. I teach the one whose boundaries or stuff have been violated to point that out to the other, and get help from a grownup if their own verbal warning isn't enough. If necessary I will plant myself between them to enforce boundaries, or require them to play in separate rooms.

 

3. For consequences, a privilege is revoked for some time. I don't care if it's logical or natural. What matters to me is that it is the child's currency.

[llm]

Thank you everyone. Your advice is wonderful and very much needed. I like the idea of averaging their ages for behavior. That makes sense. I don't want to make one child always have to be the big one and resent the others. That happened to me with my younger brother (18 mos behind) and it was so frustrating. I really resented him a lot until we got older and I could let go. I have said all along that they don't have to LIKE each other but need to respect each other. Fortunately, for the most part, they absolutely adore each other and play together very well. It's this transition that I must, in spite of being tired and torn between needs, be even more diligent about what is going on. . .

[tex-bex]

My DD6 has been a hitter on and off most of her life, it seems! Most recently, she had to apologize and find a way to make it up to DS9. She settled on making his bed the next morning.

 

We shall see if this makes any difference. It's sooooo frustrating, because it only happens when DS is rude first, but her response is unacceptable. :(

[duckens]

1) The perpetrator sits on the couch (or in time-out, or sent to bed) with no toys and no tv for the duration of however long it takes to comfort the victim. If that takes 45minutes, then it takes 45 minutes.

 

2) Discussion with the perpetrator of, "How would you feel if someone hit you?" and "That was not a good choice. What would have been a better choice?" and "We don't hit in our family. Does Mommy hit Daddy?"

 

This teaches that a social norm has been broken, and it is a big deal. If you spank you can't take the moral high ground on this one, but this is simply what works for our family. Other parents must make the judgment of what works best for their children.

 

I also take responsibility for MY part in the situation. Was I properly supervising the 2yo? Did I provide a location for dd6 to play undisturbed for a special activity? Should I have made sure that dd2 had her own page to color? ***This doesn't let the perpetrator off the hook for THEIR part!***

 

3) I pay attention to snacks, meals, and naps. Everyone (adult included) make poor choices when we are tired or hungry. (I'm not perfect on this subject, either.)

 

4) Perpetrator must apologize to the victim. It must be a sincere sorry, and they MUST be looking at the victims eyes when they apologize. (This always seems to kill the kids I have worked with, because they are not able to get away with just a half-hearted "sorry" and be off the hook). If the perpetrator is upset about this, I hold their hand and walk them over to the victim as they apologize.

 

5) Judgment of whether perpetrator needs some downtime in their bed. Some kids are just tired.

 

6) Daddy is told at the end of the day, and the child feels Dad's unhappiness in their behavior. We don't spank in our family, but Daddy gives "the look" with a "not-yelling" tone of disappointed voice.

 

7) If behavior continues, we tomato stake. If child complains they cannot play with legos at this time, then I ask, "Why do you need to stay with me?" The child goes with me to move the laundry, make the bed, go to the bathroom, EVERYTHING.

 

8) I try to praise good behavior on a daily basis,and as often as I can.

"Thank you so much for playing nicely with your sister while I made lunch."

"What a nice sister you are to share that with dd2!"

"I know it is hard to be patient with dd2 because she is so little. You are a good and patient sister."

"It makes me so happy to see you girls playing so nicely!"

"That was a good solution to make sure that dd2 had a bunny and a stroller, too!"

 

Dd2 is also praised for her part in patience and asking and respecting older sisters projects.

[beaners]

One thing I'd do is make sure oldest has his own space and place to keep his own stuff that he doesn't necessarily have to share. If he wants to build legos alone, I would find a table space or something and allow him to do that for a while. My kids are almost 4 years apart, and this made a huge difference for my older. My daughter was 1 to 2 when my son was most excited about doing legos. Even when my daughter was just starting to crawl, I would let her mess up his stuff and I would let him hear me say "No no Suzie, Billy's legos are not for you" and we'd move him to a "safe" place even though she didn't care and I would repeat it 20,000 times. So at least, when I did need to intervene on his behavoir, he knew I respected him and his stuff and space. I trained him to ask for help when his sister was getting up in his grill. Once I did that, I had very little to no issues with hitting, etc.

 

I would absolutely not tolerate hitting or scratching at all either, and some of the other suggestions here have been great. One piece of advice right after I had my 2nd from a more experienced parent was to average the age of the kids involved and have that expectation of behavior out of both kids. I was an oldest kid (only by 18 months), and I was ALWAYS the one that had to step up and be the big kid. I think I've eliminated a lot of jealousies here by having this approach. Even at 12, I notice my son acting differently with his teen friends vs. his sister's 8 year old friends. And I'm only talking about interactions with each other, not in general. My son does have 12 year old work load and responsibilities and privileges.

 

We have a few young children, and I make a conscious effort to maintain the same rules (within reason) for sharing for everyone. It is so easy to tell the older ones to let the younger ones have what they want so they will stop fussing, but I really dislike the power that gives the younger children over the older ones. It's not fool-proof, but it helps.

 

Sitting right with them the whole time helps a bit too, but it doesn't eliminate it in my house. It's also a completely unrealistic long-term parenting strategy when you have more than one or two small children. (My opinion.) It's good for short-term improving behavior, but it's still HARD when you are pregnant or nursing. It's easier in small spaces. Our living areas are all open, so every time I sat on the couch to feed the baby, the kids would go out of reach and start bickering. Without fail.

 

I don't do much of the "How would you feel" stuff on the spur of the moment. The response you got is exactly why. I'd end up just talking the situation to death without fixing anything. I DO use that type of technique separately for role-playing. The behavior results in the expected consequence in our house, and we talk about it later. We DO talk about it. I don't just blindly punish and leave it at that.

 

:grouphug: I don't think a 5 year old needs to be "going through" anything or be horribly traumatized to have an unusual bout of unacceptable behavior. He will be ok. :grouphug: