Question for dance directors or workshop coordinators

[KungFuPanda]

I'm comfortable with the rate structure within my own dance community, but I've recently gotten an inquiry from a dance studio that wants to bring me in as a guest artist. They do this during the summer camp season to introduce their ballet/tap/jazz/modern girls to other dance forms. Now, I can't very well ASK the studio director what they pay their other guests. I also can't risk quoting a rate that undercuts the other bellydancers in my area because they are VERY sensitive about this, will find out, and it can hurt my business.

 

Does anyone have advice or a reputable place to look for rate structures? I don't really want to discuss this locally until it's a done deal. Can any Hive dancers or business women give me advice?

[dancer67]

I'm comfortable with the rate structure within my own dance community, but I've recently gotten an inquiry from a dance studio that wants to bring me in as a guest artist. They do this during the summer camp season to introduce their ballet/tap/jazz/modern girls to other dance forms. Now, I can't very well ASK the studio director what they pay their other guests. I also can't risk quoting a rate that undercuts the other bellydancers in my area because they are VERY sensitive about this, will find out, and it can hurt my business.

 

Does anyone have advice or a reputable place to look for rate structures? I don't really want to discuss this locally until it's a done deal. Can any Hive dancers or business women give me advice?

 

Wondering why you cannot ask what the pay structure is? I think that you should have a set price in your mind and see if that is something you want to pursue. No, you can't ask what they pay their other guests but I think you have to determine what pay is worth it to you, combined with the passion you will be passing on to other students. I CAN tell you that here, as a guest teacher the rate is around $25-30/45 minute class. Depending on credentials. Hope you find some answers.

[KungFuPanda]

I did ask a friend who owns another local studio. As I feared, there's a gap between going bellydance workshop rates and going studio guest artist rates. Studios are used to paying about half as much as bellydancers are used to earning. I either bid low and risk alienating the bellydance community by undercutting, or I bid the going rate and risk pricing myself out of a new market. The studio can find a bellydancer who will work for less, and they'll end up with this distorted view of what serious middle eastern dance is really about. This dance form already suffers from serious misconceptions by the general public and I REALLY want these girls to get a true taste of what it is.

 

I seriously dislike the business end of dancing.

[Lady Marmalade]

Guest artists that come to our studio to teach earn about $50 an hour. That's also our going rate for a regular hour-long private lesson with a teacher.

 

However, that is a base rate. We recently had an all-day workshop come to our studio. They charged $150 per kid to attend the workshop. They brought two teachers and spent six hours teaching, with small breaks, and then there was an hour exhibition at the end.

[dancer67]

I did ask a friend who owns another local studio. As I feared, there's a gap between going bellydance workshop rates and going studio guest artist rates. Studios are used to paying about half as much as bellydancers are used to earning. I either bid low and risk alienating the bellydance community by undercutting, or I bid the going rate and risk pricing myself out of a new market. The studio can find a bellydancer who will work for less, and they'll end up with this distorted view of what serious middle eastern dance is really about. This dance form already suffers from serious misconceptions by the general public and I REALLY want these girls to get a true taste of what it is.

 

I seriously dislike the business end of dancing.

Oh boy, what a position. I completely agree about the misconceptions about what Bellydancing is really all about. Is there a way you can go on one of the dance forums and ask this question? The only other option I see here, is calling another studio outside of your area and possibly inquiring about rates. Bellydancing is a specific type of dance. One that is usually not offered at dance studios.(just because it isn't your "typical" dance style) I know of only one studio here that offers a bellydancing class. Trying to outsource and get one in the studio is just to difficult. As far as the business end, yes. Makes you want to pull your hair out. Maybe some others here will see your thread and have more advice for you. Best of luck.

[dancer67]

Guest artists that come to our studio to teach earn about $50 an hour. That's also our going rate for a regular hour-long private lesson with a teacher.

I just want to make sure I am understanding this correctly. If you have a guest teacher at your studio, and a student decides to do a solo choreographed by that teacher, it is $50.00/hr???? What is the going rate for the teachers who actually work for the studio for a solo? I think that if I am reading this correctly, our studio is seriously undercharging. But maybe it is demographics.

[KungFuPanda]

$50/hour would be at the lowest end for guests artists around here. A bellydancer could ask 2-3 times that and still catch glares from other bellydancers for the low-ball bid. I think part of the problem is that there are far fewer bellydancers and we don't really have the tiny tutus to pay the bills, so our businesses are completely different. Add in astronomically expensive costumes and the difficulty and expense of finding teachers past an intermediate level and you are just operating in two different worlds.

 

I did come up with a quote that should make us both a little uncomfortable. It's really the best I can do. This is just an introductory workshop, by-the-way. Should they decide they want a choreography they'll really go into sticker shock. I can't upset the other bellydancers though because those chicks dance with swords!

[Lady Marmalade]

I just want to make sure I am understanding this correctly. If you have a guest teacher at your studio, and a student decides to do a solo choreographed by that teacher, it is $50.00/hr???? What is the going rate for the teachers who actually work for the studio for a solo? I think that if I am reading this correctly, our studio is seriously undercharging. But maybe it is demographics.

 

Yes. The $50 per hour is the going rate for a solo- regardless of whether it's one of the teachers from the studio or a professional that is brought in. At our studio, we are charged $450 for the teacher for a solo- that is broken down into 18 half hour sessions over the year. A Duet or a Trio is the same rate, so cheaper per person when you break it down, but yes, it's $50 per hour.

 

You might be undercharging. The number of solos, duos and trios seems to increase exponentially each year. No one bats an eye at the cost, and we actually have many people who do multiple solos or duos.

[Dmmetler]

One thing you might want to consider-there is a market for "tiny tutus" classes in world dance styles. We have a dance cooperative-where studio space is shared by a modern/contemporary company, a belly dance company, and a bollywood group, and where classes are offered in a range of World dance styles, and they offer kids' classes that are designed mostly just to explore a dance style and the culture it comes from, including week-long camps. The kids' classes seem to be quite well received-DD's done several fo them and loves them, and what I've noticed (and what DD is probably going to do next year) is that many of the girls who do just the occasional workshop or week-long camp there while doing Ballet or Jazz are moving over to doing World dance classes for fun when they decide that they really don't want to spend hours a week on ballet technique or whatever. It helps fund the companies and increases awareness-and if such workshops already exist, it's easier to set a price for a special one for a given studio.

[dancer67]

Lady Marmalade: If you do not mind sharing, could you tell me what state your studio is located in? And are you a competitive studio? Thank you!(P.S. If you do not want to share state, could you share if it is east coast, mid, or west coast?)

[KungFuPanda]

I live in a metropolitan area and I only know of one other bellydance teacher who instructs children. My children's class is the largest, and youngest and my youngest students are 8. That's SUPER young for bellydance. In this dance form, the older dancers (30-50) are usually the better ones.

 

I don't know if instructors have a hard time teaching hip work to folks who don't have hips yet, or if they're just spoiled from teaching adult classes and a realization that the parents are your actual customers. Teaching the kids does require a skill set outside of being a decent dance instructor. Still, some of the best Bellydancers were serious ballet students who just body-typed or aged out of ballet. I just want to plant that seed, ya know? I don't want to cheat myself to do it though.

[Lady Marmalade]

Lady Marmalade: If you do not mind sharing, could you tell me what state your studio is located in? And are you a competitive studio? Thank you!(P.S. If you do not want to share state, could you share if it is east coast, mid, or west coast?)

 

We're in NE Wisconsin. Our studio is both competitive and rec. On the rec side we have all kinds of styles and classes, an annual recital, Nutcracker and a performing company that performs at events in the community. Our competitive team attends at least four competitions a year that are required, and then others that come up are optional. We do travel as far as Chicago to attend conventions and competitions.

[Lady Marmalade]

I live in a metropolitan area and I only know of one other bellydance teacher who instructs children. My children's class is the largest, and youngest and my youngest students are 8. That's SUPER young for bellydance. In this dance form, the older dancers (30-50) are usually the better ones.

 

I don't know if instructors have a hard time teaching hip work to folks who don't have hips yet, or if they're just spoiled from teaching adult classes and a realization that the parents are your actual customers. Teaching the kids does require a skill set outside of being a decent dance instructor. Still, some of the best Bellydancers were serious ballet students who just body-typed or aged out of ballet. I just want to plant that seed, ya know? I don't want to cheat myself to do it though.

 

I would love, love, love for my kids to get to experience more world dance styles. If a bellydance instructor came to our studio, I would sign them up in a heartbeat. I hope you can find a rate system that works for you!

[hillfarm]

You might share some of this information with the studio wishing to hire you. Explain what the standard bellydance rates are in your area for your level of expertise. Then let them know that you want to give them value for their money, but at the same time, not alienate the other bellydancers in your area. Perhaps they might have some ideas such as limiting the time frame or keeping the student number low. Although they should already know the difference, make sure they do understand the difference and value in having a bellydance professional provide their class rather than someone from the Y who might be taking more of a "fun exercise activity" approach or someone who might be coming from a more questionable standpoint.

[justasque]

I think too that you may have to look at this as outreach/promotion/networking, rather than just a gig, which will affect your pricing. A "low introductory rate", if you will.

[Dmmetler]

I think too that you may have to look at this as outreach/promotion/networking, rather than just a gig, which will affect your pricing. A "low introductory rate", if you will.

 

 

Another possibility here-can you see this as a cross-marketing opportunity? That is, do the workshop for the girls, in exchange for getting to market your classes? Some of those little girls probably have big sisters who aged out of ballet who might well be looking for a performing outlet, or moms who would enjoy an adult beginners class. I know a LOT of 8-10 yr olds who are at the point that they're dropping out of ballet or combo studios because they enjoyed one class or two a week, but didn't want to do the schedule expected at that age (or it was just plain too expensive), and even more 11-12 yr olds who wistfully comment "Oh, I used to dance" when the 5-6 yr olds are talking about their ballet recital. Advertising can quickly get expensive, and a big combo studio can easily have multiple nights with hundreds of spectators each night of recital-so putting an ad in a recital program might be worth discounting your performing rate for, and pick up some of those kids who are doing "one last recital"-but who really don't want to leave dance.