Retained reflexes

[GoVanGogh]

I have some questions/concerns about retained reflexes, if anyone is familiar with them.

 

1.) What causes a child to retain reflexes?

2.) What to do about it?

3.) Is it normally a part of a bigger dx?

4.) What to do when specialists and therapists disagree?

5.) Do pediatricians check for things like this?

 

 

Background:

Pre-teen child, just dx with cerebellum damage and a neuromuscular movement disorder last fallI.

 

We started OT last fall. In January, we had a sub therapist and she said that child has retained reflexes, so regular therapist checked the following week and agreed. We were sent back to neurologist, who is a specialist in childhood movement disorders. The neuro said it isn't retained reflexes, but the neuromuscular part of the dx making child move their body in a similar way.

 

We switched OT places in February. New OT says child has at least one retained reflex. Child just had PT evaluation last week and she is saying child has at least three retained reflexes. (ATNR, STNR and ? can't remember third.)

 

I have done the self-test at home and child does react as if they had retained reflexes, but I don't know enough about the neuromuscular part to judge.

 

We are already planning on going to another neuro for a seond opinion this fall, when it is time for a repeat MR. I am now wondering if I should go to another neuro sooner. We now have neuro saying it isn't retained reflexes and three therapist saying it is. I know neurologist has more experience and training in this, but he shrugged off first OT's concerns which didn't sit well with me. I have told the three therapist what neuro said and they don't agree with neuro.

 

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

 

---

 

Question 5: I am so frustrated with medical community over this. The first neuro we went to all but kicked us out of her office, saying it was obvious we had never taken child to the doctor before as "any doctor would have caught this." Chidl was premature, multiple surgeries and health problems, not missed a well-child visit. Child has been seen by dozens of doctors and I have tried since 18 months of age to find a doctor to figure out what was going on with child.

Retained reflexes? A pediatrician should be checking, right?

[Heathermomster]

No, I wouldn't expect my ped to catch it. Peds check reflexes of newborns, not 12 yos. If a Dr. suggested I was negligent over STNRs, I'm fairly certain that I would find another doctor. Since DS was born, he's seen 5 different peds over his life due to relocations and moves.

 

An OT informed us that DS had a retained STNR and vestibular issues. DS was 12 yo at the time. Anyho...DS performed daily exercises for about 6 weeks at home and in the OT office. Just last week, DS mentioned that he believes the exercises helped.

 

It all seems like voodoo and witch craft to me, but there seems to be studies that support it. Insurance covered the OT alongside IM.

[GoVanGogh]

No, I wouldn't expect my ped to catch it. Peds check reflexes of newborns, not 12 yos. If a Dr. suggested I was negligent over STNRs, I'm fairly certain that I would find another doctor. Since DS was born, he's seen 5 different peds over his life due to relocations and moves.

 

An OT informed us that DS had a retained STNR and vestibular issues. DS was 12 yo at the time. Anyho...DS performed daily exercises for about 6 weeks at home and in the OT office. Just last week, DS mentioned that he believes the exercises helped.

 

It all seems like voodoo and witch craft to me, but there seems to be studies that support it. Insurance covered the OT alongside IM.

So they check reflexes as newborn. But what about at one, two, three years of age? Especially a premature child who would be more likely to have retained reflexes.

 

First neuro said we were negligent. We will NOT be going back to her. No way. No how.

 

I need to talk with the therapy place tomorrow and see if they can give me any advice on what to do, I guess. Two of their therapists are saying child has retained reflexes. I would love for our insurance to pay for treatment for this, but our insurance company is balking at paying for anything since DS has had this since birth but it took this long to get a dx.

 

I have been reading about retained reflexes and know that my child has a lot of the symptoms, but I really don't know how the neuromuscular issue plays into the testing.

[itsheresomewhere]

DS had retained reflexes. His OT saw it right away. His neuro and old crappy OT did not. I wouldn't have expected the ped to see it anyway. During his intake paperwork, I mention to the OT how he never would try and catch himself when he fell. If he tripped he went down face first as he had no idea to put his hands out to stop him. She recognized it and treated him for it. He graduated from OT and is so much better.

[Heathermomster]

So they check reflexes as newborn. But what about at one, two, three years of age? Especially a premature child who would be more likely to have retained reflexes.

 

First neuro said we were negligent. We will NOT be going back to her. No way. No how.

 

I need to talk with the therapy place tomorrow and see if they can give me any advice on what to do, I guess. Two of their therapists are saying child has retained reflexes. I would love for our insurance to pay for treatment for this, but our insurance company is balking at paying for anything since DS has had this since birth but it took this long to get a dx.

 

I have been reading about retained reflexes and know that my child has a lot of the symptoms, but I really don't know how the neuromuscular issue plays into the testing.

 

 

Pursue this but don't feel bad about it. Your plate is full, and I think it's fairly safe to say that many moms of preemies wind up putting out several fires a day. These reflexes are often overlooked and the student may be diagnosed ADHD because they can't sit still in class. Prior to my son's diagnosis, I used to teach with DS standing at the kitchen counter. He just seemed to learn best that way. I also gave him breaks every 20 minutes. Now I understand that I was accommodating for his STNR and didn't know that.

 

Some retained STNR and ATNR integration exercises may be found on youtube. You can do the exercises at home, and I don't see how they would hurt. As you calm down and pursue this more, I expect you'll discover the retained reflexes need to be addressed, but it's not cancer. With the exercises and time, I think it would be reasonable to see improvement, even with your child's neuro-muscular difficulties. Remember, a child's brain is highly plastic and adaptable. The brain's plasticity enables these kids to learn and accommodate.

[GoVanGogh]

Pursue this but don't feel bad about it. Your plate is full, and I think it's fairly safe to say that many moms of preemies wind up putting out several fires a day. These reflexes are often overlooked and the student may be diagnosed ADHD because they can't sit still in class. Prior to my son's diagnosis, I used to teach with DS standing at the kitchen counter. He just seemed to learn best that way. I also gave him breaks every 20 minutes. Now I understand that I was accommodating for his STNR and didn't know that.

 

Some retained STNR and ATNR integration exercises may be found on youtube. You can do the exercises at home, and I don't see how they would hurt. As you calm down and pursue this more, I expect you'll discover the retained reflexes need to be addressed, but it's not cancer. With the exercises and time, I think it would be reasonable to see improvement, even with your child's neuro-muscular difficulties. Remember, a child's brain is highly plastic and adaptable. The brain's plasticity enables these kids to learn and accommodate.

Putting out fires.

Yes. And here we are, a decade later, and they are asking me how the child crawled and if I knew that the child crawls (today) incorrectly. Child had so many health problems those first few years - yet was walking at 10 months of age. I have no memory of crawling. I did note in baby book and have one photo of the child crawling. Beyond that? No clue. I haven't seen this child crawl in more than ten years.

We do a lot of our school 'on the go,' which was my way of accommodating needs that I didn't realize were part of a bigger problem.

 

Was going over my notes last night and it is four reflexes - ATNR, STNR, palmar and plantar. The last two I really do think are part of the neuromuscular disorder, but I don't know about the first two.

 

Thank you for the info.

[GoVanGogh]

I was able to talk with the therapist today. She said that they look at it from a functional point of view. Because child's body is moving as if they have retained reflexes, it needs to be addressed. The one in the hands could do damage over time, as child clenches so tight. Just one more thing to add to the list of things we need to work on.

[Heathermomster]

I was able to talk with the therapist today. She said that they look at it from a functional point of view. Because child's body is moving as if they have retained reflexes, it needs to be addressed. The one in the hands could do damage over time, as child clenches so tight. Just one more thing to add to the list of things we need to work on.

 

Go over to youtube and look up the integration exercises for the palmar reflex. The video I watched involved a squeeze ball that fits snugly in the child's hand. The exercise involves squeezing the ball with all fingers at once, then pressing into the ball with each finger respectively about 30 times.

 

Once you talk with the therapist and she tells you precisely what to do, your entire family will find ways to integrate the exercises over breakfast. If you have other children, award prizes and have them all do the exercises to make the experience more pleasant.

 

The foot reflex is what I'd like to know more about.

 

Have a blessed day! It's SAT week for us.

[geodob]

A basic exercise for palmar reflex, simply involves touching the thumb with the finger-tip. Going from finger to finger.

Then 'flicking out the hand', to loosen it.

The palmar reflex, is a reflex that is triggered by contact to the palm of the hand.

Where if you touch the palm of a babies hand, it will trigger this automatic reflex and cause the baby to form a fist.

A baby has no control over this, and also has control over release of the grip.

 

The first stage of developing control of the fingers, is to develop the ability to inhibit this reflex. So that one can gain control over the contraction and extension of the forearm muscles that control the fingers.

Crawling plays a role in the final resolution of this, with the hands being placed flat on the ground, as they.crawl. Which further de-sensitizes the palms of the hands.

 

With the 'squeezing the ball' exercise? The crucial factor, is that the ball is being pressed against the palm of the hand. Triggering the reflex.

So that exercise actually involves lifting the fingers, one by one. Which gradually develops the ability to inhibit the palmar reflex.

 

But it is notable, that the palmar reflex is mapped in the brain, with oro-facial muscles involved with speech.

So that a retained palmar reflex is very often associated with some speech apraxia.

[GoVanGogh]

A basic exercise for palmar reflex, simply involves touching the thumb with the finger-tip. Going from finger to finger.

Then 'flicking out the hand', to loosen it.

The palmar reflex, is a reflex that is triggered by contact to the palm of the hand.

Where if you touch the palm of a babies hand, it will trigger this automatic reflex and cause the baby to form a fist.

A baby has no control over this, and also has control over release of the grip.

 

The first stage of developing control of the fingers, is to develop the ability to inhibit this reflex. So that one can gain control over the contraction and extension of the forearm muscles that control the fingers.

Crawling plays a role in the final resolution of this, with the hands being placed flat on the ground, as they.crawl. Which further de-sensitizes the palms of the hands.

 

With the 'squeezing the ball' exercise? The crucial factor, is that the ball is being pressed against the palm of the hand. Triggering the reflex.

So that exercise actually involves lifting the fingers, one by one. Which gradually develops the ability to inhibit the palmar reflex.

 

But it is notable, that the palmar reflex is mapped in the brain, with oro-facial muscles involved with speech.

So that a retained palmar reflex is very often associated with some speech apraxia.

 

Thank you for the information.

Child had speech issues when younger - started speaking a bit, then stopped and didn't say anything for a year. We went through state's intervention program for evaluation and speech at age 2. Neurologist, now 9 years later, is saying he thinks child did have apraxia. I can't find paperwork from prior evaluation and don't remember beyond that he qualified for speech.

 

I just started reading "A Well-Balanced Child" by Goddard Blythe yesterday. It is fascinating. But I am startled at how much points to what child is going through now.

 

The link between retained reflexes and learning disabilities is interesting, especially the ATNR and dysgraphia. Would love to know if anyone here has experience/input on the connection.

[wapiti]

But it is notable, that the palmar reflex is mapped in the brain, with oro-facial muscles involved with speech.

So that a retained palmar reflex is very often associated with some speech apraxia.

 

This is fascinating. Odd question - are they causally connected? Does improving the situation with this reflex (the exercise with the ball) have any affect on speech?

[Dmmetler]

I'm really thinking DD8 has a retained Moro reflex-it just makes everything fall into place, as opposed to the "some symptoms of X, but not all" (where x is ADHD, ASD, SPD, etc). Who would we see about this? She was assessed at an ASD center which got the "some symptoms of X,Y!Z, but not enough to diagnose, plus very gifted" DX that means "no covered services or good path to get supports", and they didn't mention anything abut retained reflexes then.