Horizons to Saxon after 4th?

[joyfulhomeschooler]

We have been using Horizons math from K-4th so far and though I have dabbled in other things we always stick with it. I am noticing however that as we go on with Horizons it is getting harder for me to teach. There is less teacher explanation and the teacher book doesn't explain anything to tell me how to teach it. I'm torn because I wanted to stay with it until 6th and then switch to Saxon.

 

So my questions are:

 

Will I regret switching to saxon this early? I would finish out the year with Horizons 4 and then have my son take the placement for saxon.

 

It seems as though saxon has more directions for the student and would be easier for me to teach to my kiddo, is this so? I would be getting the bundle, so it would include the DIVE cd's.

 

How does Saxon compare rigor wise with Horizons?

 

This is a big step for me because of the price (I usually get Horizons used), and because I trust Horizon to get the job done. Horizons seems like just the right amount of rigor for my son.

[WiseOwlKnits]

I'd always planned to switch from Horizons to Saxon at 5/4, but decided against it after doing a side-by-side comparison in person because Horizons appears to cover things much earlier than Saxon. I know a lot of people rave about how great Saxon is, but I just was not impressed.

 

I think it's quite common for people to switch either at Saxon 4/5 or 6/5 so I don't think you'd have any problems switching at this point.

[joyfulhomeschooler]

I'd always planned to switch from Horizons to Saxon at 5/4, but decided against it after doing a side-by-side comparison in person because Horizons appears to cover things much earlier than Saxon. I know a lot of people rave about how great Saxon is, but I just was not impressed.

 

I think it's quite common for people to switch either at Saxon 4/5 or 6/5 so I don't think you'd have any problems switching at this point.

 

Thanks for taking the time to answer. That is exactly what I was afraid of. My son does so well with Horizons, it's just that I have a hard time explaining math. I know how to do it, but can't explain very well. That's why I need something with more teacher help. I keep grabbing my TM but it doesn't seem to have any help for new subjects. Unless I am missing something.

[SilverMoon]

I don't like fixing what isn't broken. If it's working so well for your DC, I'd look for a way to make it easier for you. Perhaps watching the videos on Khan Academy or Alcumus on those topics yourself? Or with your DC. I play on the practice part of Khan Academy myself sometimes, mostly just to keep myself refreshed as my oldest kids get into math I haven't done in years.

 

I have limited experience with both of those math books. I've used Horizons 5 and Saxon 5/4-8/7. I think Horizons does cover a wider variety of topics, but Saxon teaches the needed skills for those extra topics, even if it doesn't teach them explicitly. Most likely the shift to Saxon would work out well at that level. The biggest hurdle would be getting your DC used to writing every problem from the textbook on paper, instead of filling out a worksheet. It's a very worthwhile skill to have, but also one many (most?) children will not appreciate earning. The tone of Saxon is more "here's the facts" than Horizons.

[Ellie]

Thanks for taking the time to answer. That is exactly what I was afraid of. My son does so well with Horizons, it's just that I have a hard time explaining math. I know how to do it, but can't explain very well. That's why I need something with more teacher help. I keep grabbing my TM but it doesn't seem to have any help for new subjects. Unless I am missing something.

 

See, I'd make the switch as soon as my child tested into 5/4.

 

That Horizons "covers" something before Saxon doesn't mean it does a better job of it, or even that that particular concept needs to be covered. Saxon is an excellent math series. You cannot go wrong with it.

[Hunter]

 

See, I'd make the switch as soon as my child tested into 5/4.

 

 

:iagree:

 

My youngest jumped into Saxon just fine at Algebra 1, but I have a copy of 54 here, and if I was planning on using Saxon with a student, I'd like to start them when they are ready for 54, as Ellie suggested. I really like the book. My tutoring students just don't have the time to do the Saxon series, but I do like Saxon.

 

I also like the Amish Study Time Arithmetic series.

 

And for ultimate flexibility, in the logic stage, I like the OOP Arithmetic Made Simple. Barron's Arithmetic the Easy way is still in print, is similar and is good too, but I prefer AMS even when it means constantly tracking down decent used copies for my students. I just ordered a bunch of copies this week. Hopefully at least some of them will be nice. UGH! I wish this would go back in print!

[mschickie]

We switched from Horizons to Saxon after Horizons 3. The reason I did it is I did not like the lay out of the pre-algebra Horizons book. I did use Saxon for sd when she was in High School and I really liked the way the information was laid out and the way the examples were given in the Saxon series. When we switched dd to Saxon I did the placement test and she placed into 65 instead of 54 so I would say that Horizons does introduce some concepts earlier which is one of the reasons I liked them for early elementary but not necessarily for high school math.

[joyfulhomeschooler]

We switched from Horizons to Saxon after Horizons 3. The reason I did it is I did not like the lay out of the pre-algebra Horizons book. I did use Saxon for sd when she was in High School and I really liked the way the information was laid out and the way the examples were given in the Saxon series. When we switched dd to Saxon I did the placement test and she placed into 65 instead of 54 so I would say that Horizons does introduce some concepts earlier which is one of the reasons I liked them for early elementary but not necessarily for high school math.

 

 

I've noticed that about placement too. I had my son take the placement (we are half way through horizons 4) and he placed in the 7/6 for saxon. Is it wise to stick a 5th grader into saxon 7/6 math? I like to keep things challenging, but don't want to overwhelm him either.

[joyfulhomeschooler]

 

I only know Horizons, but in our point of view, from Horizons 4 and up the books are much more written to the student, so the explanations are in the studenttext. (what's written in there was enough for me)

We switched this schoolyear (6th grade) to a Belgian Math, this because the scope and sequence didn't meet our standards anymore, and as 6th grade is a examyear here we decided to use something that works to the Flemish Exams. DD doesn't like it though, she still prefers Horizons.

 

Did you go over the explanations with your child at the beginning of each lesson? Sometimes I wonder if it is the way I explain things that makes it hard for him to understand me. I was told in school that I made math too hard and over thought it. My husband can take the horizons book and sit with our son and explain it and he gets it right away. When I go over the explanations in the book with him, he gives me a dumbfounded look.

[joyfulhomeschooler]

Ugh! I am just so lost on what to do. I know either way he will be fine... still hard to choose though. Maybe I should try NOT explaining and see how he does. :bored:

[SilverMoon]

If he connects with Dad better for math, could Dad teach the lesson before he goes to work in the morning? Or wherever the best hole in his workday is.

[joyfulhomeschooler]

If he connects with Dad better for math, could Dad teach the lesson before he goes to work in the morning? Or wherever the best hole in his workday is.

 

Maybe this would be a good option. Eventually I will want to switch to saxon though... that's part of the reason I was thinking of switching now.

[AK_Mom4]

 

I've noticed that about placement too. I had my son take the placement (we are half way through horizons 4) and he placed in the 7/6 for saxon. Is it wise to stick a 5th grader into saxon 7/6 math? I like to keep things challenging, but don't want to overwhelm him either.

 

Go ahead. One of Saxon's strong points is that it is incremental - it starts off simple and builds up gradually using the pieces that you just covered. If it helps, you can always pick up the DIVE or Saxon teacher or Art Reed DVD lessons.

 

Another plus for younger students - my kids wrote directly in the soft-side books up thru 8/7. There is enough space between problems to use it as a workbook if you choose.

[mschickie]

 

I've noticed that about placement too. I had my son take the placement (we are half way through horizons 4) and he placed in the 7/6 for saxon. Is it wise to stick a 5th grader into saxon 7/6 math? I like to keep things challenging, but don't want to overwhelm him either.

 

 

Go with what the placement test say. When the series was designed John Saxon did not want kids to be penned in by a grade level which is why the levels were 54,65, 76 so they were not grade level specific. DD is officially in 4th grade and is doing 76 without any problem. The only thing that dd found a little overwhelming at first was the format. The fact that there is a drill sheet every day and a section for mental math and a warm up was a little overwhelming when we first started. After a few weeks it became routine. It had nothing to do with the material it was just getting used to a new format. My suggestion would be to start the new curriculum earlier than you start up the new school year. Maybe just do math 2-3 day for a couple of weeks before you start up the new year. This way it give time to get used to the new curriculum and for him to get into a groove with it.

[Ellie]

 

Maybe this would be a good option. Eventually I will want to switch to saxon though... that's part of the reason I was thinking of switching now.

 

If you know you're going to do Saxon eventually, IMHO it's better to start sooner than later. If you think 76 might be too much, do 65.

[mathwonk]

have you looked at harold jacobs algebra? does it fit anywhere in this sequence? i just mention this because this book is a lot of fun, challenging even for mathy kids, and not so drill oriented.