can you explain IEW to me?

[jeninok]

I keep reading that IEW is formulaic, and can be great for struggling writers. DS has a wonderful knack for words, and is very good at verbally expressing himself, but we are at an impass in writing.

 

His penmanship, spelling, and sentence construction have improved greatly, but getting a paragraph down is still trauma inducing. Now that math is going well and he is up to where he needs to be, I really want to focus on writing. We have been doing narration, copywork, and dictation, and working our way through Writing Tales...but it is painful.

 

We are also practicing typing everyday. I am hoping this will make it easier for him. I am thinking that based on what I have read IEW might work, but it is so expensive, and I'm not sure where to start with it all.

[HS Mom in NC]

I'm one of those people who thinks IEW is too formulaic. I used it grudgingly with my middle child who needed some formula but finally dropped it because I didn't want to her to be an "IEW writer." You really can tell when a child was taught it-it's painfully obvious. And yes, I taught mine to type in middle elementary school. I put a baby blanket over their hands as they practiced on the computer typing program to make sure they were really learning to do it by muscle memory instead of sight.

 

My oldest is a natural born writer and my middle struggles with writing. I suggest Simply Grammar by Karen Andreola if you're still at the sentence structure age. It's different in that it gives examples, but relies heavily on exercises requiring the child to come up with their own sentences to demonstrate that they understand the concept. It can easily be done in tiny bit sized pieces or a lesson or two at a time. Both of them enjoyed it. We did a lot out loud which saved their energy for when they did have to write.

 

Writing with Skill by Bauer is really great when they're older (you didn't mention your son's age) because it breaks the writing process down into specific pieces and then puts it together very neatly. I started with this when mine were Jr./Sr. High age because other things were too young for them.

 

Reading aloud great literature is the best thing for preparing a child for English skills. The best writers voraciously read high quality, well written books. Why not listen to masters regularly to hear the best English has to offer? If you aren't reading aloud regularly, now's the time. Don't stop when they get older-keep reading aloud great literature until they leave home.

 

We also skip what they already know. Why on earth people think they need to beat a dead horse is beyond me. If you need permission to skip things because you are stuck in an institutional mindset,

 

I hereby bequeath unto you, by the power vested in me that you, being of sound mind, may hence forth and ever more assign unto your charges only that which you deem is lacking in their education. All other repetitions, reminders, regurgitation, and busy work are hereby declared null and void and you are not subject to them from now until the end of time. Yada yada yada, abracadabra, alakazam, amen!

[jeninok]

I agree that too many programs beat the dead horse into a bloody pulp. I had considered CLE language arts because he does so well with the format of their math, but frankly after looking through it, it is so stinkin spiral it would likely be the death of us.

 

I am going to institute free writing time every day. I don't care if he writes I don't know what to write for the entire time, but I am thinking of starting with 3- 5 minutes, then ever so slowly bumping it up, even if by 30 second increments. At this point I feel like that might ease some of the brain to paper barrier. I would provide a list of ideas to help jog his brain, and then hopefully he would just put words on paper.

 

That is totally separate from actually writing with quality though.

I don't think he is ready for WWS, Writing Tales is still so slooooow and painful, but I like what she is getting at so we are working through it.

 

I have been trying to teach him the Schaffer paragraph on my own, it is formulaic to the extreme, but if it means he can put a decent bit of information on paper, I don't care at this point. I just want 3rd person, present tense or if that isn't possible at least tense agreement, basic capitalization and punctuation, and some sort of logical sequence of thoughts on paper.

 

You are nearly 12...I like orange cats. They eat cat food and catch mice, my cats name is waffle. he is orange and soft. Is not acceptable effort, even though I know this is very hard for you.

 

I would also like to have as little wailing, gnashing of the teeth, and for the love of Pete please don't roll around on the floor and moan like you have appendicitis. :willy_nilly:

[mom31257]

I really like IEW, and it's the first writing program that has made me confident in teaching writing. I am a math girl, so bring on a formula! I'm leading a class of 12 kids in SWI-A right now. I went through IEW's Teaching the Classics and am leading a book club. IEW is my lifesaver! Here's an explanation of what IEW teaches. (I've not covered all the units in depth yet, though.) A few of the kids in my class were creative in writing but didn't really know how to get the necessary structure on paper. It has really helped them with organization, and many are using it across the curriculum at home according to their parents.

 

Units 1 & 2 are teaching kids to make Key Word Outlines from paragraphs, retell those paragraphs in their own words, then rewrite them in their own words. Key Word Outlines involve picking 3 key words from each sentence giving the kids a source to look at while retelling or rewriting the paragraph. Depending on the level of your student, you will be taught to use "dress-ups" (quality adverbs or adjectives, a who/which clause, because clause, strong verbs, etc.). These are to make sure your student is varying their sentences and have interesting word choices. You will also have lists of banned words so that the writing isn't redundant or boring. There are also "decorations" including types of sentences, types of sentence openers, literary devices, etc.

 

Unit 3 begins by teaching children to rewrite stories. I love this unit because you are able to turn a 1 paragraph fable into a 3 paragraph story or even summarize a whole book into 3 paragraphs. You can also use the story sequence chart to create your own and make sure you include the necessary elements of a good story (character, setting, conflict, solution).

 

Unit 4 & 6 teach report writing from one source and from multiple sources. I wish so much that someone had taught me to do reports this way. It is so helpful in making the steps easy.

 

Unit 5 is writing a story from pictures.

 

Unit 7 is Creative Writing using a 5 paragraph format to write on anything the child wants

 

Unit 8 is Essay writing begins with the basic 5 paragraph format but shows how to exand it to a much larger essay.

 

Unit 9 is Literary Critique using a 5 paragraph format

[boscopup]

Amy gave a great summary!

 

The things that have helped my writing phobic son:

 

- Pudewa encourages writing the rough draft in PEN and having a messy paper for that draft (just cross out words with one line).

- Pudewa encourages Mom to be a walking dictionary OR have the kid use an electronic speller so they can write without worrying about spelling (work on spelling as a separate subject).

- Keyword outlines help my son organize his thoughts before he makes sentences.

- Story sequence chart helped retell the story very easily (*I* had problems with Unit 3, but my son didn't).

 

Is IEW the only thing I'm using right now? No. I'm kind of mixing it with WWE and R&S's writing lessons. The big thing is that my son *can* write now. Previously, he was terrified that he'd spell something wrong or just not write the right thing. :tongue_smilie:

[TarynB]

Another IEW fan here. Prior to trying IEW earlier this year, we used WWE. IEW turned my previously writing-phobic DS into a confident, organized writer. He now doesn't dread his writing assignments. To paraphrase lewelma from another recent IEW thread, "IEW focuses on structure and style. Other writing curricula are more about content." IEW doesn't require much original writing, but it teaches you how to organize and dress-up your writing. IEW is formulaic and it does feel stiff and awkward at first. But IEW clicked with my DS. He has now internalized the IEW formula and after a while the awkwardness fell away. His writing is SO much better now, and he is happily and confidently writing across the curriculum (well, without complaining or crying, LOL). Now I feel sure that my DS can tackle WWS next year.

 

You said your DS "has a wonderful knack for words, and is very good at verbally expressing himself, but we are at an impass in writing." That used to be my DS too. IEW is known for working especially well for boys who are writing-phobic.

 

As far as where to start with IEW, get the full DVD set Teaching Writing with Structure & Style (to teach you how to teach it) -OR- get the Student Writing Intensive and watch the DVD lessons with your DS to make it open and go (and it also comes with a TWSS overview for you). -Or- just order the TWSS Overview DVD for $10 to orient you to the program if you're hesitant to spend too much without knowing more. Also look for Andrew Pudewa videos on YouTube to get an idea of his teaching style. IEW accepts returns at ANY time (no matter how long), no questions asked. Or look for it used. After completing TWSS or SWI, you'll be familiar with the program and will know what products to use next.

 

If you buy new, it is pricey. But writing is so important. I'll skimp on other subjects to get great writing curriculum. IEW isn't a good fit for everyone, but if it works, it does a great job.

[Alte Veste Academy]

We love IEW here too. It works well for my non-reluctant DS10 (helps him organize his thoughts) and for my extremely prolific DD (helps her contain her thoughts ;)). Gosh, even DS6 (almost 7) participates in the lessons (with me as his scribe). I find it interesting for people to say they can identify kids taught this way because I read the writing of all three of my kids each week and their output is very different. Hey, don't most of us use adverbs, who/which, etc. when we write? :tongue_smilie:

 

You have nothing to lose. Either buy it new from IEW and return it for a refund if it doesn't work or buy it used and resell it without a loss if it doesn't work. LOL No risk here, really. :D

[boscopup]

I find it interesting for people to say they can identify kids taught this way because I read the writing of all three of my kids each week and their output is very different. Hey, don't most of us use adverbs, who/which, etc. when we write? :tongue_smilie:

 

I can see where it looks awkward when they're *learning* the dressups, and each paragraph has a who/which, etc. But that isn't final writing. That is steps in the process of learning to write. Eventually, they should learn to use dressups where they fit well.

 

I have seen where adding the dressups really made my son's paragraph sound *better*. He had one where it was a bit boring, then he added the dressups, and it gave it more detail, added some reasoning (the "because" clause makes them think "why?"), etc. Could you tell it was an IEW paragraph? Sure. It has each particular type of dressup at least once. Again though, he's learning to use those dressups. Once they become automatic, the requirement is taken away, and you use them where they fit well.

[shanvan]

We love IEW here too. It works well for my non-reluctant DS10 (helps him organize his thoughts) and for my extremely prolific DD (helps her contain her thoughts ;)). Gosh, even DS6 (almost 7) participates in the lessons (with me as his scribe). I find it interesting for people to say they can identify kids taught this way because I read the writing of all three of my kids each week and their output is very different. Hey, don't most of us use adverbs, who/which, etc. when we write? :tongue_smilie:

 

You have nothing to lose. Either buy it new from IEW and return it for a refund if it doesn't work or buy it used and resell it without a loss if it doesn't work. LOL No risk here, really. :D

Bold above is absolutely true. I bought one of the SWIs used, held onto it for at least 3 years and sold it for exactly what I paid for it--and very quickly.

 

I think IEW can become formulaic, but I think most how to write books, programs, curricula can. It's really a matter of how you teach your child to use the material being presented. We take breaks from IEW at times so all the writing is not so tightly scripted. That is for Dd, Ds is using Lost Tools of Writing this year along with IEWs Elegant Essay and several other books I throw in. He has no specific formula to follow. He just has to write the essay and make his points. For Dd next year I think we'll be using WWS. One of the nice things about IEW is that you can adapt it to whatever you want Dc to write about ---science, history, fiction.

 

Someone on WTM boards once described how she used IEW with MCT which required almost the exact opposite approach to writing. Like anything else IEW is a starting point. It is not the end all be all of your child's writing. At a certain point your Dc will develop his/her own style and voice. IEW leads to that eventually but many people do only the earlier levels and don't realize it.

[mom31257]

I've head that as many students get older and used to writing well, they no longer need the checklist and don't have to include every dress-up, decoration, etc. At that point, they can write on their own and automatically include a variety of things needed. I would think it would quit looking like "IEW writing" then.

[jeninok]

Ok, so what is the difference between Units 1 and 2 and the student writing intensive?

 

The SWI you linked is labeled as being for grades 6-8, he is not at a 6th grade level with his writing ability, but he is easily bored with material that is written to a much younger audience.

 

And one more, what about the themed units, I have seen them in Mardel and thought about picking them up, but they are always wrapped in plastic so I can't really look through them!

 

From everything I've read about the program I think it is worth a shot, but for some reason I have a hard time figuring it out, MCT has been the same for me, it looks so lovely, but I an never very clear on what it actually involves despite browsing all the possible samples on their site. :o

[quark]

The SWI you linked is labeled as being for grades 6-8, he is not at a 6th grade level with his writing ability, but he is easily bored with material that is written to a much younger audience.

 

 

 

I hope I am not hijacking the thread...I have the same issue as the bolded. Have been considering IEW too. I have watched a few videos from Student Intensive B (a friend lent it to me once) and they seemed a bit easy for DS. I am wondering if Intensive C will be better?

[jeninok]

I hope I am not hijacking the thread...I have the same issue as the bolded. Have been considering IEW too. I have watched a few videos from Student Intensive B (a friend lent it to me once) and they seemed a bit easy for DS. I am wondering if Intensive C will be better?

 

Not hijacking at all!

 

It needs to be engaging and interesting content, or he will half a** is it even more, and hopefully the videos are engaging too, to at least some degree or it will be a struggle to get him to focus on the guy talking. But generally content that is interesting to him is way above his current skill level.

[mom31257]

The SWIs are videos of Andrew teaching a group of kids at a seminar. The TWSS is videos of Andrew teaching adults and is designed to teach you how to teach the material. Theme books are materials a parent can use to teach the program without SWIs but having gone through TWSS. By using a theme book, you would be able to choose the level you feel your child is ready for as well as a subject that interests them. If I were you, I would go through TWSS and teach it myself so that I could choose a theme book of interest and possibly one with more than one level so I could choose which level of assignment he should complete.

[shanvan]

The SWIs are videos of Andrew teaching a group of kids at a seminar. The TWSS is videos of Andrew teaching adults and is designed to teach you how to teach the material. Theme books are materials a parent can use to teach the program without SWIs but having gone through TWSS. By using a theme book, you would be able to choose the level you feel your child is ready for as well as a subject that interests them. If I were you, I would go through TWSS and teach it myself so that I could choose a theme book of interest and possibly one with more than one level so I could choose which level of assignment he should complete.

 

 

:iagree: Get a theme book with 2 levels. You can use the assignments from it, and you can make up your own assignments using material you know interests your Dc. That is what I'm doing w/ Dd currently. I have the Medieval book and we are well past that era in history, so I use the checklists and some of the teaching from the assignments, but I pick my own materials to suit Dd.

 

Also get the TWSS so that you can go back to it and ramp up the difficulty as your Dc gets older. And, if it helps, you can go to the IEW site and watch the online webinars. If they continue with them, you can take them yourself live next year. You can sign up now, but the upcoming seminars are for the later units, so you probably wouldn't be ready for that. It gives you an opportunity to ask questions.

[mom31257]

I'm sorry, I didn't address the difference in the units and the SWIs. The units are the different types of writing that the IEW programs teaches. Different theme books and different SWI levels teach age-appropriate units, but not necessarily all 9. There are some theme books that do cover all 9 units. If you look through the table of content samples on their website, you should be able to see which units are taught in each book. I hope that helps.

[shanvan]

About the wrapped theme books, can you just ask if an employee can open them so you can take a look? I've done it and usually the employee realizes I want to see what I am paying for, but I don't know anything about Mardel. Occasionally, when I couldn't get an employee I've unwrapped and re-wrapped books I wanted to look at. The online samples can give you a better idea of which book might work, and you might even be able to try out one or two.

[TarynB]

The SWIs are videos of Andrew teaching a group of kids at a seminar. The TWSS is videos of Andrew teaching adults and is designed to teach you how to teach the material. Theme books are materials a parent can use to teach the program without SWIs but having gone through TWSS. By using a theme book, you would be able to choose the level you feel your child is ready for as well as a subject that interests them. If I were you, I would go through TWSS and teach it myself so that I could choose a theme book of interest and possibly one with more than one level so I could choose which level of assignment he should complete.

 

This. I've seen others say to start with a theme book but I wouldn't recommend it. I know they're cheaper but it's not advisable. You really should watch TWSS (or go through a SWI with your student) before you do a theme book. Otherwise, you'll either miss the point of the program, or you and your student will just end up frustrated and drop it.

 

As I said earlier, look up Andrew Pudewa videos on YouTube before you buy anything. You or your DS may not care for his style at all and it would be better to find out before you spend any money for something that you won't use.

 

ETA: I keep editing this because I hope this comes across gently, because that's the way I'm intending it. The way you've described your DS, he sounds the same as mine used to be. I think I was in your shoes. I was frustrated b/c I KNEW he could do better at writing. He was good at telling stories and narrating, yet was still writing the shortest, simplest sentences he could just to be "done". Finally I learned with him that he just needed the right challenge coming from a source other than me. SWI-B did that for him. (As an IEW newbie, TWSS was too intimidating to me (10 hours long??!!) That's why IEW came out with the SWIs.) So the SWI-B assignments weren't from me - they were from Andrew Pudewa. Now, DS thinks it is fun to write full, descriptive sentences. He actually uses the thesaurus for the most descriptive adjectives he can find. WHAT???!!! It's because he can now be proud of what he writes and he knows it.

 

Still, correct placement is tough to advise. I linked you to SWI level B because my DS10, who is a young 5th grader, did SWI level B with no problems at all. His reading level is above grade, but before IEW his writing skills were barely average and his writing confidence was definitely lagging. So I'd say the recommended ages of 6th - 8th grade for level B are a bit off. I wouldn't put an almost 12 year old in SWI level A. I'd rather buy something that will be somewhat challenging rather than too easy and insulting to his intellect. (Don't ask me how I know this.) (Also, I wouldn't want to use level B with an average 8th grader as IEW labels it; an 8th grader should probably use C.) Without knowing your DS, based on what you've written, I'd still bet he'll rise to the challenge.

 

Also, for other posters/readers, don't base your placement decisions solely on watching a friend's SWI videos (without seeing the assignment book). The SWI videos provide the instruction for each lesson (you'll watch about one episode per week) but the writing assignments and requirements themselves are more key to each level. Level B started off easy and got progressively more difficult. Look at the samples to see the TOC for each level. Level A, B and C teach slightly different types of writing.

[amsunshine]

I can see where it looks awkward when they're *learning* the dressups, and each paragraph has a who/which, etc. But that isn't final writing. That is steps in the process of learning to write. Eventually, they should learn to use dressups where they fit well.

 

I have seen where adding the dressups really made my son's paragraph sound *better*. He had one where it was a bit boring, then he added the dressups, and it gave it more detail, added some reasoning (the "because" clause makes them think "why?"), etc. Could you tell it was an IEW paragraph? Sure. It has each particular type of dressup at least once. Again though, he's learning to use those dressups. Once they become automatic, the requirement is taken away, and you use them where they fit well.

 

 

Right. IEW has a strong emphasis on mechanics -- it encourages the students to practice different tools and gets them accustomed to using those tools. Once the students have a firm grasp of how to use those tools, it becomes unnecessary for them to use checklists or formulas.I personally have used both WWE and IEW in earlier years, and am now using both level B of IEW alongside WWS. I love both programs, but I find that WWS lacks in teaching the mechanics of writing. It's great for prolific writers, like my eldest. But my younger needs a little more specific instruction in mechanics. The two programs complement each other well and my dds enjoy both.

[amsunshine]

I hope I am not hijacking the thread...I have the same issue as the bolded. Have been considering IEW too. I have watched a few videos from Student Intensive B (a friend lent it to me once) and they seemed a bit easy for DS. I am wondering if Intensive C will be better?

 

Look at the samples online -- Christianbook has some more sample pages than what are on the IEW site, too. I'm using level B this year with my 9 year old and next year (when she is 10) we'll use level C. I agree that the grade levels assigned by IEW seem a bit high, and strong younger students can handle the higher levels. The good thing is that if you need to, you can slow down and do additional assignments in a particular unit using different material, for practice. I think you'll be fine using level C if the B material seemed too easy.

[quark]

Thanks for the responses everyone. I like that IEW has a no risk return policy. Still saving up enough for an SWI. I think I might go with level C first. It's also a psychological issue. DS is always more game to try something when I present it at a harder level. If it starts to feel too difficult, we will use our own samples as others have suggested before we continue with the rest of the program.

[jeninok]

Thank you ladies so much for all the information!

 

With his writing, I really am okay with formulaic if it means he can get thoughts down on paper and his intelligence will show through. I don't seem him going for an English major but I do want him to be able to communicate clearly in school and later in the workplace.

 

Honestly something like Dragon Software may be in the cards for us, but unless he learns to properly construct the information even Dragon won't solve this issue.e

He is also going through some weird stage where it really bugs him when I use words like prudent, stipulation, or pergola (which he was convinced I made up)