Starting high school with a student who is behind?

[faiths13]

I am worried about homeschooling my oldest who will be starting high school this fall. He is behind in science and math. He has always struggled with math and I brought him way down this year in hopes to get things more solid - it doesnt seem to be working. I also never found a great science curric, so he doesnt have knowledge he "should have" by his age. He is better at LA, but still not solid. So I have no idea, if I were to homeschool him this fall, where I would even begin. He says he wants to go to college, so I want him to be able to be ready if he does decide to do so. I just feel very lost. I was just reading through the HSLDA site about homeschooling in high school and it sounds a lot easier than I thought. It's just the courses he should be studying that Im worried about. I am not really sure how to get him "caught up" so he can be more on a high school level, getting ready for college. Any suggestions?

[Nscribe]

It can be difficult to offer suggestions without having a little more detail. The following types of things may help the hivers to buzz:

 

Which math book/program did you run into a roadblock with and what did you back up to in order to try a restart? (Does he understand fractions, decimals, the use of variables in an equation? Is it an issue of recall of basic math facts in addition/substraction/multiplication/division ?)

 

What is the yardstick/guage you are comparing him too?

 

What is his strongest interest? In which area does he seem most enthusiastic to learn? What would he like to go to college to do?

 

Although science and math tend to go hand in hand in highschool, there are options that allow a student entering highschool to buy some time to build math skills while continuing to develop a background in science. Earth and Environmental Sciences can be a great way to begin. One question that may need to be answered to know about science suggestions is whether you are willing for him to use materials that are not written with a Christian world view or not.

 

Language Arts can be such a broad area to guage that it helps a great deal to elaborate in this area as well. Does he read to learn (if there is an area of information he is unfamiliar with can he build understanding from reading or does he need other inputs?) How does he do when asked to share what he knows about a topical area in writing? What is his background in formal grammar study?

 

In a very general sense, there is not a fixed line where students begin the period of four years called high school and the end point really depends on what goals the student has and what those goals require (ex: requirements for admissions listed by a college).

[Faithr]

I would spend the bulk of your effort remediating him so he can tackle Algebra. I would browse places like Rainbow Resource to see if there is a workbook/text out there that would just address his issues. Instead of trying to work through a big thick math textbook, try to focus on just the areas he needs work in. Your progress could go something like this: 8th grade - remediate, 9th grade - gentle intro Algebra via Key To's or Teaching Textbooks, 10th grade - a solid Algebra text, 11th grade - Geometry, 12th grade Algebra II.

 

Most colleges want at least these three math levels. He'll need the Algebra I and Geometry to do well on the SAT or ACT.

 

I would encourage hiring a math tutor if you can. Maybe a local homeschooler who is older and can help over the summer? Or maybe a college student? Or another mom (or dad) to help? Sometimes having someone else explain things besides mom helps a lot.

 

For science - don't worry about being behind. Do something like earth science and physical science that doesn't require a lab or math for his 9th grade year. Start biology in 10th grade and have a lab with that. Chemistry w/lab can be in 11th grade and by that time he'll be able to handle the math in it. Then he'll be done! If he isn't going to be a math or science major, you shouldn't need more than that.

 

If he does want to go to college, have him look at various colleges that may appeal to him. Check out what these colleges require of entering students and let that help shape his choices in high school.

[TechWife]

A few things really struck me about your post - first of all, it sounds as if you are really thinking through what is best for your son - that's the first step in making any schooling decision. You also sound a bit stressed out & I can really relate to that when it comes to school because my son isn't proceeding at the typical pace. Also, you're doing the right thing by researching high school & you're right, homeschooling high school isn't as difficult as it seems at first glance. You've hit on what i think are the two most important areas of education, math readiness and language arts.

 

I'd like to encourage you to think outside of the box where high school is concerned. I've had to do this with my son & it has been beneficial. First, don't loose sight of the complete person your son is - he's more than a student, so remember to nurture that person in addition to educating him. Be sure to have fun family times, read recreationally, sports, whatever he enjoys in life. Second, think about the person you want him to become - what character traits do you see in him that you'd like to encourage? Are there any shortfalls you see that you'd like to model for him or otherwise work on? Academics can only take one so far in life, you have to consider that, unless he goes on to work in academia, his days as a student are really numbered. It's the rest of his life that really matters.

 

Remember that there are multiple paths to the same goal. His high school years may be, and perhaps should be, unique to him. His path may be curved where you'd prefer it be straight, and there may be a detour or two that you need to take. It's all okay, that's part of the pleasure of him being at home. The setting affords you the freedom to do high school in the way that is best for your son.

 

On to your concerns, though. First, don't worry about science at all. The elementary & middle school years are about exposure to science, not mastery. The high school years continue to be about exposure, but at a deeper level. Mastery doesn't come until college & grad school in the sciences. I'm convinced that succeeding in the sciences in high school has more to do with study skills and interest than having mastered any sort of material beforehand.

 

Next, think about where he is in math - again, it's okay if his path is a little crooked. It may be something as simple as the program you are using isn't a fit for him, or it may be more complicated and have to do with a learning disability. You can work with either one of those! Why don't you tell us what concepts he has mastered - does he have the four basic operations mastered? Does he understand fractions & how to carry out the four basic operations with them? Can he apply his knowledge to complete simple word problems? It would also help to know what curriculum programs you have used with math in past years.

 

For language arts - has he mastered the basics of punctuation & sentence construction? Can he write a well constructed paragraph? Has he completed some longer reports, such as the infamous 5-paragraph report? How is his reading comprehension - can he follow the sequence of a story or the sequence of events in a history reading? Can he connect the cause/effect of the events in the reading? Is he able to pick out the main point of a paragraph? Can he summarize a longer reading, either verbally or in writing? Does he understand setting, plot, characterization? There are some comprehensive curricula out there and there are also some that would help you target specific skills that he needs to work on. What have you used with him in the past, curriculum wise?

 

How are his study skills coming along? That's another area where you might want to concentrate. The best book I've seen on study skills is What Smart Students Know by Adam Robinson. Another favorite is Learning to Learn by Gloria Frender. If you consider his study skills to be on the weaker side, start with the Frender book. It covers time management, organizational skills (although I find the tips on organizing schoolwork a little cumbersome for our needs), note taking, power reading & much more. The Robinson book is geared more toward students who are motivated to learn independently. It is good in that it does teach students how to learn independently, so I recommend that you do hit it at some point.

 

Now, here'a a somewhat radical idea for homeschoolers. It's an idea that I had before we started my son in high school work & I wish we had done it. Have you considered that it's okay not to start high school next year? You can easily take another year and to work on study skills, math & language arts without causing any concern, transcript wise. It may be one of the best things you can do & it is much easier to do this before high school than during high school, although we are finding that it may be necessary. I've also created some custom courses for my son - an off the beaten path for his freshman English credit that gave us some time to introduce concepts he was missing as well as a stop-gap year for science while we tried to find the right match for him, both in interest and curriculum choice. There are many others here on the boards that do this for their students as well.

 

I'm looking forward to hearing more about your son - if we all put our keyboards together, hopefully we can come up with some ideas to help you out.

[kiana]

How far behind is behind? What are his math issues? Science is much less of an issue. The math really needs to be remediated if he wants to go to college, and the entrance requirements of course depend on different types of schools.

[pjssully]

HI, i Just wanted tosay that I am in the same boat with my daughter. She has a late May birthday and I am considering giving her another year before she starts high school. She, too, wants to go to college but is only working on decimals and percents in math and will be ready for pre algebra in the fall. Giving her another year to mature in study skills and finishing up pre algebra seems to be the best thing for her. Especially when I consider some of the ACT testing that will come so soon. This is just another option to consider. I don't know how you or your son would feel about another year before high school but just something to consider.

Good Luck!!!

pam

[faiths13]

I have never considered not having him start high school in the fall, and didn even realize it is an option. then again, with homeschool i guess anything is an option, lol. that actually sounds like an interesting idea. im afraid of how it will make him feel though, it would certainly give him more time to focus on areas that need improvement.

 

as far as what he is doing and what he knows -

 

math: right now he is doing CLE math for 5th grade. He hasn't memorized multiplication facts ( i tried going over it for a few months to get it solid, but finally moved on. he often uses a 'cheat sheet'. he can do division and decimals and fractions, but it seems like they aren't solid with him. well he's improved with division and word problems, but it seems like he will do a type of math in his workbook and then forget it by the next lesson. then still not remember it in the next two or three lessons. For example, they have gone over reducing fractions quite a few times and he still asks me how to do it. I have wondered if a spiral program is a good idea, but i didnt want to keep changing math programs. Last year we tried Math Mammoth and it didnt work for me.I am not good at math and the book didnt help me understand it, so when the kids have problems I couldnt help. CLE teachers guide has been very helpful for me. The year before that we tried ALEKS and for some reason the kids hated it.

 

He does pretty well in LA. He can write well, he has written a 5 paragraph essay. He loves to write for his own interest. He reads well, but he just took a test that put him at 5th grade reading level. Im not sure what to think about that. I find it hard to believe its true. Some days his reading comprehension seems fine and others it doesnt. It think it has a lot to do with not wanting to read it or just wanting to do something else. He doesnt have a very good attitude towards school and learning and hasnt for a long time. He is mostly interest in anime and manga. As far as college he just doesnt seem to know what he wants to do. And if something seems to hard he would rather give up.

 

As for science, I didnt realize they didnt need mastery of it until college. We have done a lot reading biographies and last year reading about science in the middle ages. They have also read about science in ancient times and colonial times. I would say they've gotten more of a background on science and its history then of implementing it. We havent done any chemistry of physics at all. I thought that was important to have before he went into high school and was feeling like a failure for not having done it yet.

 

And his study skills need help too. This is something I need help teaching because I cant say I have great study skills myself. He needs help getting better at note taking and understanding what he is reading. I was thinking I need to just give him smaller chunks at a time to help him understand things that are harder for him.

 

I probably have lost a bit of site of who my son is as a person. I am so worried about doing the right thing for homeschool, and making sure he is learning "enough", etc, etc and I also have two others I am homeschooling right now. I just feel all this pressure and stress about getting it right. I just want to give my kids the best. Then I have a problem thinking outside of the box and not worrying about grade levels and what they "should' be learning and getting away from the whole public school mentality.

 

I am just a little confused as to where to go from here with math. I can see some areas in writing he can work on, he could jump into a science program if necessary, and he is fine in history.

[TechWife]

First - :grouphug: . You've been working hard with him, I can tell.

 

I have never considered not having him start high school in the fall, and didn even realize it is an option. then again, with homeschool i guess anything is an option, lol. that actually sounds like an interesting idea. im afraid of how it will make him feel though, it would certainly give him more time to focus on areas that need improvement.

 

Based on what you've said below, I wouldn't worry so much about how he feels now, but how he will function as a person if you put him into ninth grade work when he's not ready. It's quite a blow to a person to not be able to do what is expected. He may be disappointed in the long run, but try explaining to him that you want to set him up for success & another year will help you do that.

 

math: right now he is doing CLE math for 5th grade. He hasn't memorized multiplication facts ( i tried going over it for a few months to get it solid, but finally moved on. he often uses a 'cheat sheet'.

We worked on multiplication tables for years here - all the way through the 8th grade, I can relate! We did what you are doing, though. We made a multiplication table available for his work so he wouldn't get stumped. I can say that his multiplication facts seem to be solid now - just using them in math problems and everyday situations seems to have helped more than anything.

 

he can do division and decimals and fractions, but it seems like they aren't solid with him. well he's improved with division and word problems, but it seems like he will do a type of math in his workbook and then forget it by the next lesson. then still not remember it in the next two or three lessons. For example, they have gone over reducing fractions quite a few times and he still asks me how to do it.

This sounds like he might be having difficulty moving information from his working memory to his long term memory. Have you ever had him evaluated for learning differences? A good evaluation by a neuropsychologist (if you can find one) or a psychologist, might be in order. They would be able to recommend some things that might help him. Also, have you thought of getting him a math flipper? This is a reference tool that he can keep with him and look things up on when he gets stuck. It may give him some extra independence and also help him retain the information better. The Math 2 Flipper might be a good one to start with. If you can't easily get one of those, the Fundamentals 1 Quick Reference Guide might help, although the layout is a bit distracting (well, to me it is).

 

I have wondered if a spiral program is a good idea, but i didnt want to keep changing math programs. Last year we tried Math Mammoth and it didnt work for me.I am not good at math and the book didnt help me understand it, so when the kids have problems I couldnt help. CLE teachers guide has been very helpful for me. The year before that we tried ALEKS and for some reason the kids hated it.

Spiral might be a good choice for him. Have you looked at Horizons? The teacher materials are so-so, but the explanations in the book were thorough. Consider whether or not the program you are using is serving this particular child - he may need to do something different than your other kids are doing. Back before we started pre-algebra, I went through the Keys to Algebra series on my own to refresh my memory from my high school math. I found it very useful & am so glad I did that. I have been a little shy on time lately, but I am considering purchasing the Horizons Algebra program and going through it so I am up to speed as ds tackles Algebra 2 next year. Perhaps you could carve out 15-30 minutes a day to work on math yourself so that you gain confidence? I found it much easier going as an adult then I did as a kid in school!

 

He does pretty well in LA. He can write well, he has written a 5 paragraph essay. He loves to write for his own interest. He reads well, but he just took a test that put him at 5th grade reading level. Im not sure what to think about that. I find it hard to believe its true. Some days his reading comprehension seems fine and others it doesnt. It think it has a lot to do with not wanting to read it or just wanting to do something else.

This sounds like he does well writing. If you take the extra year, have him write, a lot! Work on having him develop cohesive essays and papers. Introduce the different types of essays to him (informative, persuasive, etc.). I've found The Elegant Essay to be a great tool for this. We've been spreading it out over two years.

 

I've found the book Deeper Reading: Comprehending Challenging Texts to be a good resource - it helped me understand how to move my son out of basic reading comprehension and dig more out of what he reads.

 

He doesnt have a very good attitude towards school and learning and hasnt for a long time. He is mostly interest in anime and manga. As far as college he just doesnt seem to know what he wants to do. And if something seems to hard he would rather give up.

Again, I can relate! Perhaps this is because he has had some struggles, though. Maybe with finding different materials and making sure his working at his level, you might see some gradual improvement. Encourage him to keep going. Remind him that he needs to try his best to keep all of the doors to his future open so that he has choices.

 

I would say they've gotten more of a background on science and its history then of implementing it. We havent done any chemistry of physics at all. I thought that was important to have before he went into high school and was feeling like a failure for not having done it yet.

No need to feel like a failure - you want to continue to expose him to sciences. Think about picking up some experiment kits. Science Wiz kits are good kits, as are Thames & Kosmos kits. A more cost effective alternative is Young Scientist Club Sets. I'd start around Kit 4 for his age. Some kits have lab booklets or worksheets for the kids to complete as they go along, have him do those. If the kit doesn't have anyway for him to document what he's doing, have him keep a science lab book as he works through the experiments. Don't make him write up everything he does, but pick maybe one lab every couple of weeks that you want him to do thoroughly and write up. Let the other labs be an opportunity to play with science. Science Notebooks: Writing About Inquiry explains the process and is a good resource if you've never done this before. Using Science Notebooks in Middle School is a great reference tool for you, although it seems to be out of print. I've never read it, but Teaching Science with Interactive Notebooks might be a good substitute for it.

 

 

And his study skills need help too. This is something I need help teaching because I cant say I have great study skills myself. He needs help getting better at note taking and understanding what he is reading. I was thinking I need to just give him smaller chunks at a time to help him understand things that are harder for him.

Consider getting What Smart Students Know for yourself. It's a pretty quick and interesting read. After you have a better idea of what skills you want to encourage, go through Learning to Learn with him, but have him practice the skills he learns in the context of his own schoolwork. If that book doesn't seem to be a fit after you look at it, then do some looking around as there are dozens of options for middle school & high school study skills.

 

I probably have lost a bit of site of who my son is as a person. I am so worried about doing the right thing for homeschool, and making sure he is learning "enough", etc, etc and I also have two others I am homeschooling right now. I just feel all this pressure and stress about getting it right. I just want to give my kids the best. Then I have a problem thinking outside of the box and not worrying about grade levels and what they "should' be learning and getting away from the whole public school mentality.

Are you my twin? I really can relate to you, as I've said before. I've had to practice getting out of that box a lot! It does get easier with practice though I still find I have to be intentional about it.

 

I hope these ideas help you out some.

[Nscribe]

I noticed in your signature that you have a 5 year old and 3 year old, which indicates the last couple of years as your oldest has been coming along, through what is typically considered middle school, you have had a newborn/infant and toddler. You also have one who is 12, so you have been busy.

 

TechWife has given you some ideas and is coming from a similar experience.

[faiths13]

Yes this year things have finally gotten easier with the two little ones, lol. I feel like the past two years in math have been a bust for my two oldest. between the stress of taking care of the little guys and looking for a good math program.

 

Techwife, you have given a lot of great resources. I will start looking into them. I try to get as much as I can from the library and after that have to be really choosy on what we buy. The math flipper and other resource look like a great idea though. It is a good idea to take some time to go over math for myself. Im not sure if I will have the time, but I could try. I have to say I have learned more these past years we've been hs'ing then in school myself, lol.

 

I havent had him evaluated, but i do sometimes wonder if he may have a learning disability. we dont have very good medical insurance though. i will have to look around into it more. but something i just thought of is he has memorized all the Pokemon there are, which is like 600 or something, so Im not so sure there is a problem with his memory, or if its his interest and what he's putting into it.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Did anyone mention Khan Academy yet? That might be a tool to help him put his finger on the areas he doesn't yet understand. It is a free site with instructional videos as well as practice problems. There is immediate feedback so he wouldn't do a page of problems wrong and then find out he needs to redo them. This might be a way to bring him through the middle school math topics. I also like the Key To series.

 

Being behind in math doesn't require holding him back in high school (though I wouldn't rule that out). But it does mean that you and he need to put some time and effort into moving forward. That might mean putting some other subjects on hold or light maintenance. Or it might mean math twice a day or on Saturday or over the summer.

 

Hugs. We're digging out of our own post Christmas hole and I understand the frustration and sense of looming disaster.

[Mouseketeer67]

I'm not sure if this would be a challenge for him, but you might want to give Interactive Math a try. It starts at 6th grade level right up thru college. And best of all it's free.

 

http://interactmath.com/ChapterContents.aspx 6th grade level

 

http://interactmath.com/Home.aspx?bookId=0 Home page

[faiths13]

I have had him work on Kahn Academy, but both my older kids hate that too. He hates the videos for some reason. I will check those links out though, thanks!

[deannajo]

I'm following along closely. Faiths13, I could have written every one of your posts though, except mine would be for my DD - I hadn't thought about delaying highschool though, that idea made me go "hmm, maybe?" Right now she's so resistant to anything that remotely looks schooly, so its hard. She's an artist. She does tons of graphic art and films/animations - That's all she wants to do. She's amazing and so talented...but I want her to be prepared for anything - college, different careers, etc. RIght now, we're remediating math with Mastering Essential Math Skills: 20 Mins a Day to Success and ALEKS - and its going well.. Its my hopes to have her ready for prealgebra by next year, but that's still at least a year "behind" where she should be for 9th grade. She loves to write, but says she hates reading (its like a dagger through my heart when she says that) - but even though she loves to write, she doesn't like to be told what to write...she writes well, but creatively. Not much experience with academic writing, essays, etc.

 

Anyway, This thread has been great. Thanks for starting it.

[pjssully]

Hi I am not "pushing" holding back but i just want to tell you what happened with my 13 yr old daughter. When I first brought it up to her, she was so upset that I knew it was going to be an issue. I tried to talk through it with her but she was still upset. I let it go for about 5 months, and then brought it up again just last week. She was much more receptive to the idea this time. Maybe she just needed time to process the whole idea?? I don't know. But I know for me the pressure is off and I know that we have another year to bring her up to grade level. I can enjoy "her" again and not be frustrated with her or stressed around her. It feels good!!

Best of luck. There are some great resources that I am going to look into as well.!!

[ElizabethB]

:grouphug:

 

I have several reading grade tests and reading diagnostic tests you can give. Mostly a bump, but here is the link for now, I'll have more tomorrow hopefully.

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/readinggradeleve.html

 

The MWIA link is not working right now, if you want to give the MWIA I would give level II (pages 7 and 8, time each portion and write any mistakes over the words on your copy), here is the link:

 

http://www.donpotter.net/pdf/mwia.pdf