College students' perceptions about themselves (article)

[Miss Marple]

This was a very interesting article. For those of us who have experienced college in the 70s and 80s and then subsequently watched our own kids and others go through the experience, it is an excellent summation of what we've seen (or at least what I have seen). My boys have made similar comments about how self-assured their fellow students are only to be shocked when their grades come back. It seems that self-esteem isn't a problem for these kids...work ethic is the problem.

 

http://www.dailymail...rely-study.html

[Laura Corin]

I thought that this quotation was astonishing:

 

Also on the decline is the amount of time spent studying, with little more than a third of students saying they study for six or more hours a week compared to almost half of all students claiming the same in the late 1980s.

 

Only a third say they study for six hours or more a week? Six hours is nothing! I'm assuming that 'studying' means doing work outside a class? Would that be your definition? Or does it mean doing work not specifically assigned? That would be more understandable.

 

Laura

[regentrude]

What the article describes agrees completely with my observations as an instructor.

But it should not be astonishing for any parent who had a kid in public school: the tender plant of self-esteem is sheltered from even the mildest breeze of founded criticism, gold stars are awarded for trying, everybody is special - no wonder those kids grow up delusional about their abilities and "specialness".

 

I have also observed that many (but not the majority) of students have unrealistic expectations about the amount of time they need to devote to school work. They are, indeed, shocked when they hear that they are expected to put in two hours out of class for every hour in class. (And, interestingly: in my eleven years of teaching, I have never had a student fail my course who put in all the work needed but simply was not capable; every single student who failed my class did so because of work ethic - they all had multiple missed assignments and cut class.)

[regentrude]

I thought that this quotation was astonishing:

Also on the decline is the amount of time spent studying, with little more than a third of students saying they study for six or more hours a week compared to almost half of all students claiming the same in the late 1980s.

Only a third say they study for six hours or more a week? Six hours is nothing! I'm assuming that 'studying' means doing work outside a class? Would that be your definition? Or does it mean doing work not specifically assigned? That would be more understandable.

 

I do not feel that "assigned work" and "studying" can be entirely separated. Often, completing the homework requires going over the lecture notes again, reading the text, maybe even summarizing the material. Preparing for class should involve reading the (assigned) sections in the text and going over the last lecture's notes.

To me, "studying" would be anything that is not working on a specific homework problem, but it would include all those preparatory steps.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

 

 

I do not feel that "assigned work" and "studying" can be entirely separated. Often, completing the homework requires going over the lecture notes again, reading the text, maybe even summarizing the material. Preparing for class should involve reading the (assigned) sections in the text and going over the last lecture's notes.

To me, "studying" would be anything that is not working on a specific homework problem, but it would include all those preparatory steps.

 

 

I'm pretty sure that the six hour studying counts completing assigned homework and any additional time spent mastering material.

 

Eta. I found a list of the questions asked. The homework question is actually asking how many hours per week they studied in High School. So the low number makes more sense. It does beg the question of how well they are prepped for college. The item does ask about studying/homework.

http://heri.ucla.edu/PDFs/pubs/TFS/Norms/Monographs/TheAmericanFreshman2011.pdf

[FaithManor]

 

I do not feel that "assigned work" and "studying" can be entirely separated. Often, completing the homework requires going over the lecture notes again, reading the text, maybe even summarizing the material. Preparing for class should involve reading the (assigned) sections in the text and going over the last lecture's notes.

To me, "studying" would be anything that is not working on a specific homework problem, but it would include all those preparatory steps.

 

 

I agree with this. Some students need to "study" much more than others. I'm not certain I would be concerned about the hours commented on in the article if that represented just time prepping for tests. Now, if it was truly only six hours a week of actual work was necessary, then good luck in the real world because that is not a work ethic that will prepare them for what is ahead.

 

The question is too vague.

 

Now, that said, I think we've reaped what we've sown with the false self-esteem movement of telling Buford he's a genius for every, tiny effort Buford makes. Self-esteem has become disconnected from hardwork, earning your praise, and achievement. No one has to work hard, do their best, show improvement, etc. to get praise. They do not earn it in American schools today. False self-assurance arises from such a philosophy and of course, school is really nothing like the real world. That's a rude awakening.

 

DD witnessed it first hand in her EMT and Paramedic training. She began EMT class with 32 people. Only 18 made it through the evaluation process the first week which included writing one essay, one business memo, and taking a routine math exam that covered, at best, the first chapter of an algebra one text. Mostly they needed to check basic math skills so these students could learn to convert between standard English measures and metric accurately and efficiently in the field - no calculators - etc. Med math as it is called. In the course of meeting her classmates the first day, most revealed they had been "excellent" students in high school. Yet, for all that excellence, half the class could not write a basic essay - the criteria really was basic...organized, reasonable sentence structure, etc. this was not an AP class essay here...just looking for foundational skills and the grading was, if you ask me, generous because they readily recognized that they had adults in the class that hadn't needed to do that kind of writing for a long time since not everyone was a recent high school graduate. However, a "B" was the requirement since they were setting them up for the fact that you have to maintain an 80% minimum in each subject during the semester and you have to get an 80% on clinicals in order to pass. That sounds harsh, but do you want a rescue worker taking care of you after a car wreck or during a heart attack that had a C's or below? No you do not! The first week was the only week in which one could have tuition refunded.

 

Of the 18 that made it through the essay, memo, and basic math exam, only 14 actually finished, got the necessary grades, and went on to pass clinicals and board exams.

 

In paramedic class it was worse. In Michigan, medics are "field doctors" so their knowledge of trauma and emergency medicine is pretty extensive. It's an 18 month program after one has completed the semester of EMT school. There are no breaks except one week at Christmas, Good Friday, and Thanksgiving Day off and if memory serves, the 4th of July. So, it ends up being three regular semesters plus a summer semester. 28 people began the program - most of them had worked as EMT's for a while - and they ended with 11 who passed clinicals and boards first time, and one who was bounced out because she just never developed good IV and intubation technique and so they failed her in a couple of areas of clinicals. At one point, halfway through the first semester, the 16 that were clearly going to NOT make it, complained loud and long in class about the rigor. The instructor, not particularly sympathetic, held up dd's cardiology text and said, "Well, if you had her work ethic, you wouldn't be in this boat." He proceeded to show them how she had highlighted the important points in the text, created a huge stack of drug note-cards that she used for quizzing herself or having others quiz her on the material, showed them her notebook that contained all of the handouts stapled to her notes on the related lectures, and showed how she had organized her notes as she went.

 

Here is the truly heart breaking thing. They were astounded. They had never been taught to take notes properly, and it had never occurred to them to find out how to do so. They had never made note cards for memorizing vocabulary. They had never highlighted a text for study. They had never.....basically, they had skated through high school without every learning, or maybe no one even attempted to teach how to study. EMT school is not as difficult as paramedic school so they'd managed that first level of training, but had now hit the wall.

 

DD is not a genius. She's intelligent, but not some super Einstein. The difference here was that she was taught HOW to learn; she was taught how to outline, take notes, organize a notebook, listen and absorb during a lecture, etc. She was given the tools of learning and then applied it. Now here is the really astounding thing, medic school costs nearly $6000.00 and it has to be paid up front at dd's EMS company. There are no refunds. If you flunk out, it is gone. So, every one of those individuals that didn't make it past the first semester was out a substantial amount of money. Knowing this was looming for them and being a natural born teacher anyway, dd offered to start a study group and tutor them. The 12 that were already trying hard and maintaining their 80% or better by working hard, took her up on it...shows you the work ethic and the drive for excellence that they possessed. The 16 on the brink of failing out and losing all that money DID NOT!

 

She had similar experiences at U of M working on her chemistry degree. The gobsmacked ones didn't seem to be willing to overcome their shell-shock at how much tougher college was than high school nor did they take advantage of resources that could have helped them through and to be certain, U of M provides a lot. There are study groups, free tutoring services, mentoring services, you name it. You CAN get help in any subject if you are struggling. You have to make the effort. It won't be dropped into your lap. Apparently, many are unwilling to try. I think that speaks volumes about the work ethic required of them K-12 and in particular, at the high school level. So, judging by her experience, I can honestly say that a false sense of one's own abilities was common.

 

Faith

[Barbara H]

Yes, this is really disturbing stuff and makes me worry about our kids' generation.

 

There's another survey out where high school students were asked what they expected in college: Only 11% of students believe that college will be difficult. 49% said it will not be difficult and 40% are unsure. Nearly 70% do not believe balancing college with personal and work lives will be a real challenge.

 

When you look at these sorts of stats it isn't really difficult to figure out why graduation rates are so low!

[regentrude]

They were astounded. They had never been taught to take notes properly, and it had never occurred to them to find out how to do so. They had never made note cards for memorizing vocabulary. They had never highlighted a text for study. They had never.....basically, they had skated through high school without every learning, or maybe no one even attempted to teach how to study.

 

 

Yes. And the sad thing is: it is often the students who were on top of their class in high school who struggle horribly in college. They never learned how to study and are used to everything being easy; many get a total crisis and take their difficulties as a reflection of their innate ability - when, in fact, they simply have not yet had a chance to develop these tools, because they never encountered material hard enough to require study techniques.

This is one of the main reasons why we homeschool, so that my kids can acquire these techniques before college. They'd be coasting in public school.

 

Knowing this was looming for them and being a natural born teacher anyway, dd offered to start a study group and tutor them. The 12 that were already trying hard and maintaining their 80% or better by working hard, took her up on it...shows you the work ethic and the drive for excellence that they possessed. The 16 on the brink of failing out and losing all that money DID NOT!...

 

She had similar experiences at U of M working on her chemistry degree. The gobsmacked ones didn't seem to be willing to overcome their shell-shock at how much tougher college was than high school nor did they take advantage of resources that could have helped them through and to be certain, U of M provides a lot. There are study groups, free tutoring services, mentoring services, you name it. You CAN get help in any subject if you are struggling. You have to make the effort. It won't be dropped into your lap. Apparently, many are unwilling to try.

 

 

This has been my experience as well. I have been involved in running learning centers and help sessions for the introductory physics courses in our department for ten years. The students who avail themselves of these free opportunities are mostly the B and C students, and a few A students. the ones who really would need all the help they can get do not participate and choose to fail rather than make the effort. (And I am not talking about one inconveniently scheduled study hour: for our intro courses, there are twenty hours of free assistance available every single week.) And yes, I am using the word "choose" deliberately.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Yes. And the sad thing is: it is often the students who were on top of their class in high school who struggle horribly in college. They never learned how to study and are used to everything being easy; many get a total crisis and take their difficulties as a reflection of their innate ability - when, in fact, they simply have not yet had a chance to develop these tools, because they never encountered material hard enough to require study techniques.

This is one of the main reasons why we homeschool, so that my kids can acquire these techniques before college. They'd be coasting in public school.

 

 

 

This has been my experience as well. I have been involved in running learning centers and help sessions for the introductory physics courses in our department for ten years. The students who avail themselves of these free opportunities are mostly the B and C students, and a few A students. the ones who really would need all the help they can get do not participate and choose to fail rather than make the effort. (And I am not talking about one inconveniently scheduled study hour: for our intro courses, there are twenty hours of free assistance available every single week.) And yes, I am using the word "choose" deliberately.

 

Well, I failed electrical engineering and have my share of Ds as well. I look back at my 20 year old self and groan at the missed opportunities to do better. I occasionally went and asked for extra help. But probably only once or twice for the course I failed. I did not go to study sessions led by other instructors (honestly, it didn't occur to me that the instructors of other sections would allow me to attend until I was pretty far behind). I didn't try to join or form a student led study group. I didn't have any idea how to read a chapter in a science text and capture the important information (terms, formulas, working through samples instead of receiving them passively). I fell behind in homework early in the semester.

 

I find it interesting that my college, one of the higher ranked engineering undergrad schools in the country, did not have a formal study assistance center for science or math classes. The instructor led study sessions were not centrally advertised. There was a writing center, but it was under-utilized when I was there (it was mostly used as a place to print papers, but not many students came in for help with papers). This has been one of the biggest areas of change at the school. They no longer take pride at weeding students out, but are trying to teach the skills needed for success. There are more study centers and more of the study skills sessions are worked into the normal required student schedule.

[regentrude]

I find it interesting that my college, one of the higher ranked engineering undergrad schools in the country, did not have a formal study assistance center for science or math classes. The instructor led study sessions were not centrally advertised. There was a writing center, but it was under-utilized when I was there (it was mostly used as a place to print papers, but not many students came in for help with papers). This has been one of the biggest areas of change at the school. They no longer take pride at weeding students out, but are trying to teach the skills needed for success. There are more study centers and more of the study skills sessions are worked into the normal required student schedule.

 

 

I struggled very much during my first semester because even the rather demanding German high school did not challenge me enough to develop study habits. That is why I have a lot of sympathy for the students who always were top of their class and suddenly don't know what hit them. BUT: we figured it out - without scheduled help sessions, tutoring, study centers. We just formed study groups and worked our behind off.

Compared to my own university education, in this country we do a lot of handholding students, coaxing and prodding them along in order to keep the retention figures high (which raises the question whether this is really a desirable course of action).

 

Our help sessions are announced in the syllabus, daily in lecture, the schedule is posted on the course website and on posters in the building. Yet there will still be students who, two thirds through the semester, have not realized that there are help sessions and tutoring available!!!

[Arcadia]

They had never been taught to take notes properly, and it had never occurred to them to find out how to do so. They had never made note cards for memorizing vocabulary. They had never highlighted a text for study. They had never.....basically, they had skated through high school without every learning, or maybe no one even attempted to teach how to study.

 

That might vary per school district and is kind of weird that it is happening. My kids school district teaches note taking from 3rd grade onwards in math and science, journaling style. Binders, colleged ruled paper and highlighters are in the recommended school supply lists. There is no textbooks for students to keep anyway all the way to high school so wouldn't the students need to take notes to survive for exams at middle and high school levels?

 

My kids are using K12 virtual academy so technically public school kids. They are taught to take notes for history since 1st grade, for science since 3rd grade and for math since 6th grade, eventhough older is issued the 6th grade math textbook. Older has to take notes for Literature in 3rd grade. They had to make vocabulary cards since Kindergarten from their assigned reading.

 

Now it makes me wonder if the elementary schools are suppose to teach note taking and proper study habits but somehow students either were not taught or forgot those skills.

[Tree Frog]

That might vary per school district and is kind of weird that it is happening. My kids school district teaches note taking from 3rd grade onwards in math and science, journaling style. Binders, colleged ruled paper and highlighters are in the recommended school supply lists. There is no textbooks for students to keep anyway all the way to high school so wouldn't the students need to take notes to survive for exams at middle and high school levels?

 

My kids are using K12 virtual academy so technically public school kids. They are taught to take notes for history since 1st grade, for science since 3rd grade and for math since 6th grade, eventhough older is issued the 6th grade math textbook. Older has to take notes for Literature in 3rd grade. They had to make vocabulary cards since Kindergarten from their assigned reading.

 

Now it makes me wonder if the elementary schools are suppose to teach note taking and proper study habits but somehow students either were not taught or forgot those skills.

 

 

I'm concerned about my younger two who are in public school (6th and 8th grades). Their school doesn't have textbooks to take notes from and the teachers provide all they need for studying, including online notes, so there's no reason for my kids to take their own notes. (The teachers are able to save the diagrams/notes they make on the smartboard when they're teaching the material and post them online.) My 8th grader isn't motivated to go beyond the easy expectations of the classes and I think she'll have a difficult time once she moves into material that doesn't come easy for her. The jury is still out on my 6th grader...

[Miss Marple]

I've been very surprised and happy to see the level of assistance offered to students in our local university as well as the state university where my sons have attended. It seems that these schools are doing their best to make the students successful - if only the students will avail themselves of it.

 

I have had to basically force a couple of my boys to go to the professor's office hours to ask questions or to go to the help centers. Once they did that, they realized they weren't going to be eaten, they would be taken seriously, and they would actually get help/answers for their questions. After the first time it was much easier for them to go back. There is something about that initial visit that just seems daunting to my boys (maybe it has something to do with being homeschooled?).

 

I can honestly say that there were never so many "helps" available to me during my college years. It seemed no one cared if you passed or failed. Today it seems almost impossible to fail if one avails himself of all the helps available.

[Arcadia]

Their school doesn't have textbooks to take notes from and the teachers provide all they need for studying, including online notes, so there's no reason for my kids to take their own notes. (The teachers are able to save the diagrams/notes they make on the smartboard when they're teaching the material and post them online.)

 

What my teachers did was to give out notes beforehand with only the main points and any diagrams that is tough to copy. We have to write down his/her explanations during class time and copy in the simple diagrams from the board to our notes. That is how we learn note taking and keeping awake during those classes. I would rather teachers do not spoonfeed the students, it hurts the students when they move on to high school.

[TranquilMind]

I thought that this quotation was astonishing:

 

Also on the decline is the amount of time spent studying, with little more than a third of students saying they study for six or more hours a week compared to almost half of all students claiming the same in the late 1980s.

 

Only a third say they study for six hours or more a week? Six hours is nothing! I'm assuming that 'studying' means doing work outside a class? Would that be your definition? Or does it mean doing work not specifically assigned? That would be more understandable.

 

Laura

 

Yeah, unbelievable. I'm sure they mean work outside of a class. Hardly anyone does work not assigned.

 

We had to work our butts off even 30 years ago.

[TranquilMind]

I'm concerned about my younger two who are in public school (6th and 8th grades). Their school doesn't have textbooks to take notes from and the teachers provide all they need for studying, including online notes, so there's no reason for my kids to take their own notes. (The teachers are able to save the diagrams/notes they make on the smartboard when they're teaching the material and post them online.) My 8th grader isn't motivated to go beyond the easy expectations of the classes and I think she'll have a difficult time once she moves into material that doesn't come easy for her. The jury is still out on my 6th grader...

 

That's just insane that the teachers provide the notes. If you don't learn to take great notes, upper high school (good high school) and college will be a big challenge.

 

When my daughter was in a local classical high school, they did not provide books for most classes. I had to buy them on Amazon. Unbelievable.

[TranquilMind]

 

This is one of the main reasons why we homeschool, so that my kids can acquire these techniques before college. They'd be coasting in public school.

 

 

This is SO true. It's really sad how little work is required to get an A in many high schools.

[Miss Marple]

That's just insane that the teachers provide the notes. If you don't learn to take great notes, upper high school (good high school) and college will be a big challenge.

 

When my daughter was in a local classical high school, they did not provide books for most classes. I had to buy them on Amazon. Unbelievable.

 

I was talking with one of our high school boy scouts about his history class. He really liked the class - I asked what text they used. He informed me that they only had 5 textbooks for the class so the teacher just put up notes on the overhead and they copied that. They had no reading assignments. He said that it is common not to have textbooks. He was surprised that we used a textbook of some sort for just about every subject. My boys were astonished and, I think, better pleased with home education than they had been before the conversation :p

 

It is no wonder so many of these students are doing poorly in school.

[mommymilkies]

I agree with FaithManor. Honestly, I was Pre-med in college and never studied. Maybe a 5 minute review before the test started. But I had a 3.9 GPA and I was not counting doing the assignments or the ridiculously long lab reports I had to do constantly. I was never taught to study, take notes, etc. in school. I had to find my own way. Luckily I'm a Virgo who likes things of that nature. ;). Some people just have different learning styles. Me, I was the annoying Hermione girl in class that argued with teachers and asked a million questions. I had one Biology teacher (that most swore was Satan incarnate) that held me up to the class often and literally made me explain my test answers to my classmates to prove that the test could be done. Classmates don't like you much after that! I wouldn't even know where to start studying. I tutored some of my fellow students and was amazed that many had elaborate note and study systems, but could not make connections to the material. Many just didn't care. Their parents paid for a full ride and they spent most nights drunk. I was a single mom paying my way, so my motivation was there. ;) dh sees this a lot as a professor, too. Success is usually less to do with time spent studying and more taking responsibility for college being a time to learn, not just a door in your way to a good paying job.

[TranquilMind]

 

I was talking with one of our high school boy scouts about his history class. He really liked the class - I asked what text they used. He informed me that they only had 5 textbooks for the class so the teacher just put up notes on the overhead and they copied that. They had no reading assignments. He said that it is common not to have textbooks. He was surprised that we used a textbook of some sort for just about every subject. My boys were astonished and, I think, better pleased with home education than they had been before the conversation :p

 

It is no wonder so many of these students are doing poorly in school.

 

I know!! How in the heck can you not have a text for HISTORY class???

 

Amazing. My daughter's school did have texts, but only because she was in AP World History as a Freshman. I have no idea if the regular classes had texts.

 

I had to buy a Chemistry text that was really expensive.

[mommymilkies]

 

 

What my teachers did was to give out notes beforehand with only the main points and any diagrams that is tough to copy. We have to write down his/her explanations during class time and copy in the simple diagrams from the board to our notes. That is how we learn note taking and keeping awake during those classes. I would rather teachers do not spoonfeed the students, it hurts the students when they move on to high school.

 

This is what I do sometimes for my ds. He has fine motor issues that makes it slow and painful to copy notes. I spent most of last school year teaching my oldest kids note taking and study skills.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

That's just insane that the teachers provide the notes. If you don't learn to take great notes, upper high school (good high school) and college will be a big challenge.

 

When my daughter was in a local classical high school, they did not provide books for most classes. I had to buy them on Amazon. Unbelievable.

 

 

I've never worked with a smartboard and have heard conflicting reports about how user friendly they are for teachers. However, way back when I was getting my ed degree, this was being held up as a possible way of accomodating students with language issues or dysgraphia.

 

I can remember my own 8th grade teacher having us take dictation each day on current events items (2-4 per day with a quiz each Friday) and pages worth of notes on US History. I wish I still had those notes, as they were almost a survey text.

[Cosmos]

This is what I do sometimes for my ds. He has fine motor issues that makes it slow and painful to copy notes. I spent most of last school year teaching my oldest kids note taking and study skills.

 

Any tips or resources for this process? This is a priority for us this year, and I don't feel very confident about how to teach these skills. Thanks for any advice.

[regentrude]

 

Any tips or resources for this process? This is a priority for us this year, and I don't feel very confident about how to teach these skills. Thanks for any advice.

 

I found it best giving the student the opportunity to need notetaking and study skills and to give them room to figure out their preferred system.

I have required my kids to take notes from their history and science textbooks beginning in 6th grade. For high school we have been using college texts because of the abysmal quality of most high school textbooks which have extremely fragmented text in little factoids and soundbites and are not conducive to note taking.

My DD learned note taking from lectures while attending lectures and studying for exams by taking classes that required studying for exams.

Nothing I could have done at home would have replicated the effect of dual enrollment classes.

[mommymilkies]

 

Any tips or resources for this process? This is a priority for us this year, and I don't feel very confident about how to teach these skills. Thanks for any advice.

 

First I just started with teaching easy outlining from books. Then we moved to copying my notes from the big whiteboard into their notebooks. I taught them methods of color-coding, etc. Nothing formal and they're certainly not done. Dd the eldest uses it a lot. Ds would rather cut off his own hands than write anything down, so I have to make him sometimes.

[FaithManor]

That might vary per school district and is kind of weird that it is happening. My kids school district teaches note taking from 3rd grade onwards in math and science, journaling style. Binders, colleged ruled paper and highlighters are in the recommended school supply lists. There is no textbooks for students to keep anyway all the way to high school so wouldn't the students need to take notes to survive for exams at middle and high school levels?

 

My kids are using K12 virtual academy so technically public school kids. They are taught to take notes for history since 1st grade, for science since 3rd grade and for math since 6th grade, eventhough older is issued the 6th grade math textbook. Older has to take notes for Literature in 3rd grade. They had to make vocabulary cards since Kindergarten from their assigned reading.

 

Now it makes me wonder if the elementary schools are suppose to teach note taking and proper study habits but somehow students either were not taught or forgot those skills.

 

 

In our local school district, they've eliminated just about everything that can't be bubble tested. EVERYTHING is bubble tested. Since one cannot really test notetaking skills by bubble testing, it isn't a worthy skill to teach. Every.single.objective. in this district is related to achievement tests.

 

When I tutored local chemistry students, many of whom were "honor roll" students, they'd never made an outline before and they couldn't point out the topic sentence of a paragraph.

 

So, yes this must vary from district to district.

 

Faith