creekland Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 We had to put a yearling down Thursday night and I'm wondering if any of you out there have experience to offer suggestions of what might have happened. When I came home from school he was lying flat out next to a hay bale, so I walked down to check him out. When I called, "ponies" he got up into a cush position and looked at me like all was well, so I turned around and didn't think anything of it. However, when we went to take youngest to school for an evening club 3 hours later, he was still there - same spot. I knew all wasn't well. We came back from school (10 min round trip) and tried to get him up, but he couldn't. Our neighbor stopped by and tried to help - no luck. At first his back legs didn't seem to be working, but he could still move them and he seemed to be getting a little better as time went on, but he still couldn't get up. We called the vet at 7 something and he came around 9:40. The vet said he was fine (heart, temp, lungs, gut, color, reflexes, etc) except for his legs and none of us saw any evidence of injury. We still couldn't get him up (he was trying, but couldn't stand). So, around 10:30 - 11:00pm we made the call to have him put down. The vet's best guess was neurological, but he certainly didn't fit the symptoms well other than not being able to control his legs (like a newborn foal). He also didn't fit the profile for anything else - poison - anything. Wednesday I know he was fine. Thursday after school he was down, but looking ok. Later he still acted fine (tried to play with a leadrope, ate carrots) but couldn't stand. It was that quick. The vet checked out everything he could, but we opted not to send in samples to be tested due to our finances - and - it won't bring him back. None of our others show anything out of the ordinary. The only "different" thing is the previous Saturday I had given him a 4 way booster shot as he was to be gelded next Tuesday (election day). He showed nothing out of the ordinary from Sat - Wed and the vet didn't think the shot could have anything to do with it. Any thoughts/suggestions? Both West Nile and EPM tend to take longer and have different symptoms - usually. A tumor should have shown itself in steps rather than affecting all 4 legs that quickly. If he had gotten cast and did damage to himself, that should have shown in one or two legs, but not all 4 (plus the vet didn't see any way a yearling could have gotten cast where he was). A kick or broken back (or other injury) should have shown itself. Most illnesses would have had a fever or dull eyes, etc. I'm stymied and the more I think about it (he's being buried today), the more stymied I am. Can the Hive help with what might have caused it? The best I can describe it is that he was normal with all "tests" except he was like a newborn foal unable to stand. He had leg movement, but couldn't organize them to support weight - not even on his front in a sitting position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddykate Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 I am so sorry for your loss! :grouphug::grouphug: I am wracking my brain trying to think of what it could be, but you said all of the things I was thinking, you were able to rule out. So, I am at a loss too. Maybe someone else here will have an idea. Keep us posted, if you determine a cause. How scary! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted November 3, 2012 Author Share Posted November 3, 2012 I am so sorry for your loss! :grouphug::grouphug: I am wracking my brain trying to think of what it could be, but you said all of the things I was thinking, you were able to rule out. So, I am at a loss too. Maybe someone else here will have an idea. Keep us posted, if you determine a cause. How scary! We aren't going to be able to determine anything officially as we opted not to send blood for tests or get a necropsy done. With regards to the blood, the vet said they might rule out things or come back inconclusive, but possibly the only thing he thinks it could have been (doubtful) is West Nile or EPM since they are both neurological. A necropsy would have shown a tumor or other abnormality, but would have been expensive for "just" an answer. In our old "financially able" days we'd have done those (did it for one foal who died at 11 days - put down by our vet - but still got no answer as to why - just ruled out everything anyone could think of). Now, in this economy, when finances are an issue, it just didn't seem to be a wise financial decision. If it were to happen to another one of ours, then we'd definitely have it done, but the vet thought that to be highly unlikely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest submarines Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 I'm so sorry. :grouphug: I really don't know much about horses, but this year many horses in the barn where DD rides were sick after the vaccinations. The owner said it was the first time anything like that happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klmama Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 I'm so sorry. :grouphug: I really don't know much about horses, but this year many horses in the barn where DD rides were sick after the vaccinations. The owner said it was the first time anything like that happened. I was wondering about the vaccination, too. A friend's dog developed severe neurological problems several days after his rabies shot and had to be put down. Sorry about your horse. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juniper Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 It sounds like epm. We had a young horse go down with it very quickly. It sounds like it was even faster that what your guy endured :( I am sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted November 4, 2012 Author Share Posted November 4, 2012 I do wish we had more $$ to have had him tested/looked at. The timing of the vaccination - coupled with those from that MA company - just have me wondering. It is possible it was EPM, but we had one who had to be put down with that (tested, so we know it was that) back in 2004. His rear legs were noticeably off for a month or so before the final hit - and even then - it didn't affect all four (though he was being treated with Marquis). Our vet told us that guy was more "normal," but also said there could be abnormal cases - hence - it's possible. I also still wonder if he had a tumor that just got large enough to press against the right place. In any event, I'm glad this is rare - and next year - if we have any issues within a week of a vaccination - we'll have to see how much testing costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Sorry to hear that. It is so hard to put down a horse. I really don't have any ideas. We do split up our shots and we have one that was sluggish after his shots one year so now we split his up even more and we give him banamine before all shots. It certainly wasn't as severe as what you had though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda's Mommy Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Was he a descendent of the QH Impressive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted November 5, 2012 Author Share Posted November 5, 2012 Was he a descendent of the QH Impressive? No. We would never breed any that was without testing N/N. Even then, since we do hunters, Impressive isn't any big "plus" in our ponies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remudamom Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 I hate to say this to you but I would not have put him down. If he didn't seem to be in pain I would have given him some time. We've had cattle that have stymied us with weird symptoms. Dh will put them in a safe place and provide them with food and water and time. He is a big advocate of time and patience. I would have put my pony Fable down if he hadn't discouraged me, and now she's stronger than ever. I hope all your others are fine, but if another goes down, wait and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted November 5, 2012 Author Share Posted November 5, 2012 I hate to say this to you but I would not have put him down. If he didn't seem to be in pain I would have given him some time. We've had cattle that have stymied us with weird symptoms. Dh will put them in a safe place and provide them with food and water and time. He is a big advocate of time and patience. I would have put my pony Fable down if he hadn't discouraged me, and now she's stronger than ever. I hope all your others are fine, but if another goes down, wait and see. He had been down for at least 7 hours (probably more) before we put him down and the vet felt there was no hope for recovery. I did some google searching while waiting for the vet and nothing looked promising - esp with the amount of time he'd been down. By the time we made the decision the pony was exhausted (even with IV fluid and Banamine), shivering, and his lungs were making noises. One of the "problems" with being down too long is in lung collapse. None of that was the "cause" though. I just find myself wondering what the cause was. I'd make the same decision over again. I saw no need for him to suffer more. We are not equipped with slings to hold him up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remudamom Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 Well you did the right thing. Cattle and horses are very different and we've never had a horse go down like that. We have had steers down for weeks though that have recovered. Horses are delicate animals aren't they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted November 5, 2012 Author Share Posted November 5, 2012 Horses are delicate animals aren't they? That's the truth! We never had a yearling go down like that. We've had older (30+ ponies go down and not be able to get back up) and we had one EPM case as well as one 11 day old filly (we still don't know why in her case even after extensive testing including for poisons - she was in distress, so hers wasn't the same). No matter what the age or cause, I still don't like the "death" part with raising ponies. I doubt anyone does. But it is even worse without answers... I do have to wonder why cows/steers can stay down for longer than horses. It would seem that they are similar. I was reading online that they even try to limit surgery for horses to three hours to avoid issues with being down too long (allows for another hour or two for recovery - and sometimes they they turn them over). We were turning this guy over (think rolling) a lot, but it didn't seem to help. He had very, very little control over his legs. He could move them, but not how he wanted to be moving them. He couldn't even get his front legs out in front of him to get up. When we moved them there he would try to stand, then fall over not ever actually getting up even to the sit position. It was unlike anything I'd ever seen. The closest comes to a foal learning to stand, but they improve within minutes. He never improved even with many of us trying to assist him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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