3rd Grade LA help; MCT is an epic fail

[Shelsi]

To be as concise as possible: My 3rd grader's weakest subject is LA, he does not enjoy it at all although he is a good reader and enjoys reading so at least there's no struggle there.

 

We believe he has dysgraphia and we're going to get him evaluated for dyslexia in the coming months. The biggest issue with LA has always been the writing portion, whether it's just filling in a one word answer on a worksheet, writing sentences, or particularly writing anything longer than a sentence.

 

I thought MCT would be a great fit for him but it's not working out at all. His eyes glaze over as soon as the book is opened. He doesn't "hear" it at all even when he's the one reading it.

 

Any suggestions on what else to try? I need something very gentle for writing - something that will walk him through the process. As for grammar he seems to do OK with it but honestly I was never taught grammar much so I need something that's very explicit in how to teach it (I can't identify anything beyond a noun, verb, or adjective for the most part).

 

We're more eclectic HSers. Also I want something secular. A small amount of religious content is OK if it's a really great curriculum. I really want something we can stick with for LA. We've switched around every single year which I really don't like to do.

 

Oh and we're using WRTR for spelling this year which is working great so far.

 

Help?

[Mom-ninja.]

If you suspect dyslexia you might want to browse the Special Needs forum for ideas.

 

My oldest is dyslexic. For grammar we used First Language Lessons. He is strong in grammar thanks to FLL. We moved to Growing with Grammar after FLL 4. It's okay but it's not FLL. :)It has short lessons and lots of built in review. If you want to do FLL you can start with level 3. It assumes not having done the first two levels. Some kids find the repetition to be boring and too slow, but it was great for my ds. Also great hand holding for teacher. ;)

 

For writing we use WWE. I will tell you it has not been easy for ds. He struggles with summaries and dictation. I broke things down as needed to help him. Slowly, oh so slowly, he is getting it.

 

IEW is a good option. I've heard that Mr. Pudewa has a dyslexic child. I've been very tempted to try it, but I stick with WWE.

 

On the other forum I've seen Step Up to Writing mentioned.

[Shelsi]

Thanks, I'll check out the other board as well.

 

Bumping for more suggestions :)

[NittanyJen]

I'll let someone with a dyslexic child respond with writing suggestions; my son is dysgraphic but not dyslexic (one of the few things I was 100% certain about with him in K-2nd grade, but ultimately wrong about, was my certainty that he was dyslexic. Never so relieved to be wrong!). He did use WWE through 2 1/2 levels before switching to IEW. Both have helped him tremendously.

 

For grammar, although we school secularly, I was blown away by the quality of Rod & Staff grade 3. I have never seen such a clear, complete grammar book written in a step by step fashion before. The TM is also useful in layout if you need answers; it has the student's page printed the same way as he sees it, with answers and notes in the margins. We did many exercises orally, on white boards, or even on the deck sliders with window markers.

 

However, for a distant cousin, you might look at Growing With Grammar. It isn't exactly like R&S, but close, and entirely secular. The workbook is more fill in the blank and a little less thought-provoking, but not a disaster. It also comes with a test bank like R&S. My older son tried it for grade 5.

[Crimson Wife]

He may not be ready for it yet but I highly encourage you to try EPS' The Paragraph Book series when you want to teach him to write a paragraph. It minimizes the need for physical writing so it's particularly good for kids who have dysgraphia.

[dbmamaz]

I consider myself relaxed eclectic. My youngest (about to start 4th) was late to talk, late to read, late to write (as in, still not really writing). At the beginning of 3rd grade, I picked up a spectrum writing book, thinking it would be simple ... page after page of lines and 'write a paragraph about a birthday party" . . . tears and screams and crying.

 

Now, i have not had my son evaluated for dyslexia - probably in part because there are board members in my inclusive state organization who have kids who were late with LA skills, or even dx'd with dyslexia, and mostly they were just patient. They avoided anything that required a lot of reading or writing (whatever they were struggling with) by taking dication, using books on tape, whatever. And as their kids grew, their reading/writing skills eventually caught up with their intellectual abilities.

 

My son is INCREDIBLY stubborn, super in to math, and just slow in LA. This year his reading is finally at the level where he can read independently, just about anything written for a kid. Woot!

 

Ok, back to 3rd grade LA.

 

We ended up using The Critical Thinking Company's Language Smarts, 2nd grade level. Because really, i wanted to meet him where he's at, and he was functioning closer to a 2nd than a 3rd grade level.

 

now, dont get me wrong, this book still was a struggle. Every time he had to write a sentence, he was rolling on the floor screaming and crying. BUT . . he did get better. The last week of school, he went in to the other room and wrote a 3-sentence paragraph all by himself. THIS WAS HUGE for us!

 

Language Smarts covered some phonics, some grammar, some sentence structure, and had logic puzzles interspersed to keep it fun for my left brain kid.

 

this year I am moving towards a Bravewriter model. There will be some freewrite, some copywork, and a lot of reading together. Bravewriter really speaks to me because she emphasizes maintaining a positive relationship with your child, being their writing coach, and meeting them where they are, ability-wise.

 

I love MCT. I MIGHT start island level with my 4th grader later this year. I might wait until next year. It might not happen. Meanwhile, I might use some of the books by Brian P. Cleary, which my library has, which cover grammar in a lighthearted fashion, apparently.

 

good luck finding what works for you and your child!

[Ellie]

You know, I would just stick with Spalding for this year and not worry about grammar or more writing than is done with Spalding. He's just 8; there's nothing he needs to know as far as grammar that can't be taught next year, or the year after, or the year after.

 

Spalding will do spelling, reading (and I don't mean "learning how to read;" I mean literature analysis, comprehension, everything), penmanship, basic capitalization and punctuation, and simple writing. It's everything an 8yo child needs, especially one who may have learning issues.

[Shelsi]

He may not be ready for it yet but I highly encourage you to try EPS' The Paragraph Book series when you want to teach him to write a paragraph. It minimizes the need for physical writing so it's particularly good for kids who have dysgraphia.

 

Thank you, that looks like something that would be really great for ds. He's not quite to that level yet but I've got it bookmarked for later on.

 

I'm really not sure if he's dyslexic or not. If he is it hasn't affected him too much academically except when it comes to writing.

 

We did supplement a bit with Language Smarts B last year. Perhaps I'll pick up the C level for this year and then integrate writing into another subject like science.

[FairProspects]

Curriculum that has worked well for dyslexic/dysgraphic ds is:

 

Singapore Grammar (b/c there is picture support)

First Language Lessons (forces you to memorize definitions which helps with ds's dyslexic problems of word recall)

 

We've done MCT for exactly 1 day, but it did NOT go well here today either and I think we will need to supplement by going back to some of FLL 2.

[Shelsi]

Curriculum that has worked well for dyslexic/dysgraphic ds is:

 

Singapore Grammar (b/c there is picture support)

First Language Lessons (forces you to memorize definitions which helps with ds's dyslexic problems of word recall)

 

We've done MCT for exactly 1 day, but it did NOT go well here today either and I think we will need to supplement by going back to some of FLL 2.

 

How do you like Step Up to Writing? I noticed it in your siggy.

 

I just talked with ds and he totally agrees that MCT is not working at all for us. He said he prefers more of a workbook style.

[NittanyJen]

To be as concise as possible: My 3rd grader's weakest subject is LA, he does not enjoy it at all although he is a good reader and enjoys reading so at least there's no struggle there.

 

We believe he has dysgraphia and we're going to get him evaluated for dyslexia in the coming months. The biggest issue with LA has always been the writing portion, whether it's just filling in a one word answer on a worksheet, writing sentences, or particularly writing anything longer than a sentence.

 

I thought MCT would be a great fit for him but it's not working out at all. His eyes glaze over as soon as the book is opened. He doesn't "hear" it at all even when he's the one reading it.

 

Any suggestions on what else to try? I need something very gentle for writing - something that will walk him through the process. As for grammar he seems to do OK with it but honestly I was never taught grammar much so I need something that's very explicit in how to teach it (I can't identify anything beyond a noun, verb, or adjective for the most part).

 

We're more eclectic HSers. Also I want something secular. A small amount of religious content is OK if it's a really great curriculum. I really want something we can stick with for LA. We've switched around every single year which I really don't like to do.

 

Oh and we're using WRTR for spelling this year which is working great so far.

 

Help?

 

Why not try this:

 

1. start with WWE1. You can always accelerate it by completing two "days" per day if you like. Do not expect perfection instantly, and use the shorter sentences for copywork. This program is about coaching to success and short, easy lessons, that build up to writing over time. And they involve reading, which your son enjoys.

 

2. Teach your son to type. Allow him to type or watch you type longer lessons. At this age, typing practice need be no longer than 5-7 minutes daily (but daily is important; it is kind of like learning a musical instrument). Look for Dance Mat Typing or Type to Learn 4: Agents of Information, and watch for correct hand position during practice (just like learning an instrument).

 

3. Consider cursive. My son had a horrific time switching letters around, writing them backwards, in the wrong order, etc. I taught him cursive, and those problems disappeared (it took longer in math). (this is why I thought he was dyslexic, but he also was initially very delayed in reading).

 

4. Consider scribing for him when he needs it-- hand is tired, he can do the work, but not get the answers on paper, etc. answering orally is fine. But have him epwatch you write it down and see his exact words and numbers appear on paper. Be careful to only write, not prompt. He must tell you exactly what to write and where to write it.

 

5. Consider a change of venue. Standing. Writing on an easel. Slanted desk. White board. Chalk. Markers. Window markers. iPad and stylus.

 

6. Do consider writing With Ease. No matter what accommodations you make, the long term goal should be to build him up to the point where he can write for himself. This goal could take months, or a year or more to accomplish, depending upon the situation, but it will require patience, understanding, and time.

 

I treated my son's situation as needing to be broken down into parts; the writing was a separate issue from his academics. I did whatever was needed to help him get the academic work done, and then we worked on handwriting as a separate subject (and typing as a separate subject). Over time, we have slowly had him do more of his own writing again, now that his ability to write has improved.

 

Writing has many components, from holding the thought in your head long enough to get it all out on paper to physically forming the letters to longer range planning of clear paragraphs and essays. Sometimes you need to figure out what the roadblock is and isolate it, build it up, then put it all back together again, again, just like playing a musical instrument.

[FairProspects]

How do you like Step Up to Writing? I noticed it in your siggy.

 

I like Step up to Writing, but the hardest part is that it is written for schools, so you have to go through the material and split it up yourself in terms of figuring out what to do each day. There is very little hand holding. I think it is genius though in how it scaffolds the process of writing. Their accordion paragraphs and color-coding are perfect for dyslexics.

[whitestavern]

Have you tried Writing Tales? Your son sounds similar to mine. He did WWE along with Writing Tales and was much more successful with WT. It's a gentle approach, secular from everything I've seen (we're in WT2 now), and has some fun games. My son is doing very well with it and seems to enjoy it about as much as he can enjoy writing :)

[Shelsi]

A mini-update:

 

Ds and I started Sentence Island today since we don't have any other materials yet and he actually liked it. So ds and I decided we're going to give it another few weeks and then re-evaluate from there. If we feel it's still not the right fit I think we're going to try Easy Grammar.

 

As for writing there's no way he's prepared to do the writing assignments in Sentence Island so we decided we'll work on those together with me physically writing them.

 

I found samples of several different writing programs, printed them out, and had ds look through them. He liked Check the Deck the best so I ordered that tonight and I told him we'd work through it really slowly.

[WiseOwlKnits]

We use CLE. I know it's not secular, but there's not a lot of religious material in their LA...a sentence here and there is about it. It's an excellent program in my opinion, it's cheap, and you can see free samples of it online.

 

I hope you find something that works for both of you.