I need advise, please - baptising your child

[felicity]

I am in a similar position as the OP. I am still active in the religion we were both in when married. Since then he has left the church and I still go with our four kids. His views have changed from "baptism is harmless" to "I don't want my children to join that church." it makes for a lot of heartache and stress.

 

We haven't figured out what to do before our next major church milestone comes in December. Our ds will be 12 which, in our religion, means that he will receive the Priesthood. My dh does not want him to, ds does and I want him to. I won't go behind my dh's back though. Thankfully we still have 3 months to figure this out.

 

I don't know if this helps but sometimes commiseration at least let's you know you're not alone.

[Joanne]

We have some friends who also claim to be athiest, but rather than indifferent, they are profoundly angry at God. All of their religious talk is centered on how it's impossible that God exists and still allow so much evil in the world.

 

My guess is that the same thing is going on here.

 

If DH suddenly announced he was athiest, and for some reason forbade me to baptize our children, I would do it anyway. IDK that I believe in baptism as a sacrament per se, but I definitely believe it at the very least acts as a hedge of protection spiritually. I believe in angels and demons and a supernatural realm most people can't see, and though it may not make a difference in their salvation, I can see that it might easily have a spiritual influence on them.

 

I would take them to be baptized, or maybe do it myself, and tell him later. If he threw a fit I'd probably ask why it mattered if God didn't exist.

 

Because his right to a belief in the lack of indoctrination is just as valid as a belief in prosribed religion.

 

He does not have to see baptism as meaningless; to him it can MEAN, REFERENCE, and REPRESENT his understanding of harm, evil, power, control, brainwashing, etc.

 

The "believers" belief is not transcendent or hierarchical.

[Joanne]

That crossed my mind. I do not want my kids indoctrinated. If they are adults and choose this or that I'm ok with it. But come on, if we are talking about a baby I'm not really worried about it.

 

Sure, but baptism represents a whole lot of things many atheists would be completely against.

 

His right to avoid that representation is as valid as her right to want the baptism.

[Joanne]

We have some friends who also claim to be athiest, but rather than indifferent, they are profoundly angry at God. All of their religious talk is centered on how it's impossible that God exists and still allow so much evil in the world.

 

[/b]

 

Maybe they aren't angry at god. Maybe they are angry at what *religion* has done.

[MiniBlondes]

I cannot imagine what a difficult situation that you must be in. :grouphug:

 

I would not do it secretly. Nor would I baptize a child that hasn't asked to be baptized (unless it is a christening). I haven't read the entire thread so you maybe have already addressed this. If the child has asked to be baptized but her earthly Father denies it, then you should respect his wishes. Her Heavenly Father knows her heart, and He will know that she wanted this for herself but was denied it. By doing this, you will not be teaching her anything except that being deceitful is okay. I'm sure that's the last thing that you would want to teach her. When you married your husband you became one with him. If he is a nonbeliever then you are called to be honor him anyway. I don't believe that God would punish you for that.

 

Pray over your child. Pray over your husband. Pray over your family. I have prayed for you as well. :grouphug:

[Lisbeth]

I'd do it over his objections, but not secretly. I don't believe in dishonesty in marraige. He'd be upset, and I'd have to deal with that. But I'd do it. If he truly is an atheist I don't see how it matters to him that much, anyway. What harm is there if there is no God, to sprinkle with water?

 

This!

[IsabelC]

What's next? We have liberal and conservative atheists?

I think that it might be easier for some people to understand if you can accept that atheism isn't actually a religion. And since atheism isn't a religion, atheists don't necessarily have anything in common except that that are not theistic (hence some people find non-theist a better term). Thus you can have atheists for whom some or all religions are an abomination, atheists who think religions are harmless rubbish, atheists for whom religion is completely irrelevant, or any other variant you care to come up with.

 

I don't believe that religion is evil or anything, but I believe it should be opt-in rather than opt-out, and the decision should ideally not be made until a person is mature (at least in their teens, preferably twenties). I would not agree to a baby or small child of mine being baptized, and I would not choose to have children with a man who required infant baptism. I feel sufficiently strongly about this that I might seek a divorce should my husband suddenly become devoutly religious and develop this stance. If he decided to baptize the kids in secret, it'd certainly be over between us (because of the deceit and betrayal, not the sprinkling/dunking).

 

On the other hand, my cousin who is an atheist was happy to have his children baptized into the Catholic Church, simply because he felt it was the socially acceptable thing to do, and the children would be free to not participate in the Church later on.

Edited August 28, 2012 by Hotdrink

[IsabelC]

Sorry, should probably not have replied to the previous as it's getting really off thread and isn't helping :blushing:

 

Could the OP please elaborate as to what the objections were to the Baptism?

Have you discussed the issue in full and made sure he understands that this is very important to you? Is he absolutely against the whole idea or just some aspects of it? Have you discussed your problem with your Pastor yet?

[Jennay]

Mandarinmom,

Even though I am of the same faith as you I am not going to give any adice other than that you really should speak to your priest about this important issue. It is his duty to help guide you.

If you don't have a current parish, I would go speak the priest of the nearest parish whether it be Greek, Antiochian, OCA, etc. There is a social group on this board called Exploring Orthodox Christianity and the members on it can help you find a nearby parish.

In Christ's peace,

Jennay

[Kathryn]

I'd do it over his objections, but not secretly. I don't believe in dishonesty in marraige. He'd be upset, and I'd have to deal with that. But I'd do it. If he truly is an atheist I don't see how it matters to him that much, anyway. What harm is there if there is no God, to sprinkle with water?

 

Given your edit explaining the importance of infant baptism to you, this is probably what I'd do.

 

But that's completely different to me. If you're Christian (or Jewish or Hindu or Pagan or whatever...) then you have a set of beliefs that can be violated. If you truly believe none of it means anything, then it comes off to me as if it's a power play in the marriage and the parenting.

 

:iagree: I used to be atheist. If DH had wanted our older son baptized back then, I wouldn't have had a problem with it. I'd have had to have some serious conversations about church membership probably, but infant baptism to soothe a Christian spouse's worries? Not a problem.

 

Mandarinmom,

Even though I am of the same faith as you I am not going to give any adice other than that you really should speak to your priest about this important issue. It is his duty to help guide you.

If you don't have a current parish, I would go speak the priest of the nearest parish whether it be Greek, Antiochian, OCA, etc. There is a social group on this board called Exploring Orthodox Christianity and the members on it can help you find a nearby parish.

In Christ's peace,

Jennay

 

:iagree:

[Carol in Cal.]

Maybe they aren't angry at god. Maybe they are angry at what *religion* has done.

 

I have personally known both people who are angry at God (for letting certain things happen) and people who are angry at religion (for doing certain things).

[Carol in Cal.]

 

His right to avoid that representation is as valid as her right to want the baptism.

 

Why should his view be the one that dominates?

[Joanne]

Why should his view be the one that dominates?

 

Why should hers?

[Carol in Cal.]

Why should hers?

 

My point is that not to make a decision for her means making a decision for him. It's not a neutral decision vs. a positive one.

[Joanne]

My point is that not to make a decision for her means making a decision for him. It's not a neutral decision vs. a positive one.

 

It's the same way from his perspective.

 

This is one of the life situations for which there is not an easy, cooperative answer.

 

My point in posting what I have posted is to dispute the assumption that her faith should have more say than his "lack of faith". His view should not be dismissed as "he should not care if he doesn't believe and the baptism shouldn't bother him." It's quite possible, even likely, that the rituals of religion are *against* his worldview.

[Carol in Cal.]

It's the same way from his perspective.

 

 

 

It might be or it might not be.

For some atheists it might be a matter of deep conviction to be anti-baptism. For some it might be a mild dislike but without beliefs about it.

 

Either way, it is important to recognize that saying, "just don't do anything' is a decision for him, not a neutral one.

[FairyMom]

Yeah.. I guess atheism is more complicated than I first thought. But if one is angry at a god they acknowledge that a god exists. You can't be angry at something you don't believe is there. At least I can't. ;) I think if one does, that's called crazy (I mean that in a loving sense...and yes I reserve the right to crack jokes at crazy).

 

I know this is off topic, but I agree, Wendy.