Singapore math retention troubles

[JadeOrchidSong]

Ds9.5 finished 5A. I gave him the exit/placement tests for 4a and 4b. He scored only 50%. I am really unhappy about it. He mistook "product" for "difference" and had trouble with estimation and decimals. I wonder what I should do to improve retention, or understanding. Maybe he just forgot how to do those when he learned them a few months ago and we never went back to review. Please give your input to help me find a way to help him. Thanks!

ETA: I think it is more my fault that I didn't give him the tests right after he finished each level that set him up for failure.

Edited August 25, 2012 by aomom

[wapiti]

I would go back and review, and then test again about a week later.

[jennynd]

Some people does IP a semester or a year behind. That might be a good idea for u

[brownie]

I have to say, my oldest struggled with 4A. Failed the final exam and I had no idea it was coming. We tutored him for at least a month in the evenings and eventually moved onto Saxon, thinking it was Singapore. Then along cam ds#2...he really struggled with 4A as well. If you do a search, a bunch of people jump ship after struggling with 4A. ds2 is now in 5B so we're doing fine but I do think Saxon insures retention with their method. It's just boring :) Brownie

[NittanyJen]

Which elements of Singapore's program are you using? Workbook? IP book?

 

Are you using or skipping the big review sections between chapters and at the ends of the books in the workbook and IP book? What about the "Practice" sections that review between sections of chapters?

 

(These sections all appear in the US version; I don't know the setup of the standards edition).

 

Going forward:

 

If you are not utilizing the above, be sure you do.

If you are, consider only doing 3/4 of the problems; then go back later and use the remaining problems as review. Or copy problems to a blank sheet for him to re-work.

Let him work in Khan Academy (it's free, and supports kd accounts for kids under 13; no need to lie to make a kid an email account) to review. One approach is to assign a topic one day, let him explore at will the next.

Some people use the IP book a semester or even a year behind. This serves as a built-in review.

 

This is not a disaster. Look carefully at the mistakes; did he really have no clue, or we're there careless errors? Are you making certain to include the "concrete" part of Singapore's Concrete-pictorial-Abstract method? At 9.5 in level 5A, this portion may be particularly important, even for a precocious child (he sounds as if he is on the same pace as my younger son). You can gently review what he missed, play math games, maybe get the Math Mammoth unit on decimals to shore that up, and then try again.

 

It can be difficult to hear tone in email. Please understand my questions are designed to help you troubleshoot and interpret, not to judge. We all hit bumps. I hope something I have said has jogged an idea or two or you that you find helpful.

 

Best of luck, and this will be okay.

[Crimson Wife]

I have my kids do their regular Singapore lessons M-Th and then use Fridays to review. They do the end-of-chapter reviews 1 semester behind and I also use placement tests from other programs (Math Mammoth, Horizons, CLE, TT, etc.) as reviews. When I correct the reviews, I try to determine whether any errors are careless mistakes or whether the student needs more practice on that particular topic.

[JadeOrchidSong]

Which elements of Singapore's program are you using? Workbook? IP book?

 

Are you using or skipping the big review sections between chapters and at the ends of the books in the workbook and IP book? What about the "Practice" sections that review between sections of chapters?

 

(These sections all appear in the US version; I don't know the setup of the standards edition).

 

Going forward:

 

If you are not utilizing the above, be sure you do.

If you are, consider only doing 3/4 of the problems; then go back later and use the remaining problems as review. Or copy problems to a blank sheet for him to re-work.

Let him work in Khan Academy (it's free, and supports kd accounts for kids under 13; no need to lie to make a kid an email account) to review. One approach is to assign a topic one day, let him explore at will the next.

Some people use the IP book a semester or even a year behind. This serves as a built-in review.

 

This is not a disaster. Look carefully at the mistakes; did he really have no clue, or we're there careless errors? Are you making certain to include the "concrete" part of Singapore's Concrete-pictorial-Abstract method? At 9.5 in level 5A, this portion may be particularly important, even for a precocious child (he sounds as if he is on the same pace as my younger son). You can gently review what he missed, play math games, maybe get the Math Mammoth unit on decimals to shore that up, and then try again.

 

It can be difficult to hear tone in email. Please understand my questions are designed to help you troubleshoot and interpret, not to judge. We all hit bumps. I hope something I have said has jogged an idea or two or you that you find helpful.

 

Best of luck, and this will be okay.

 

I appreciate your insight very much, Jen! I feel you were truly just wanting to help me by the questions:001_smile:.

We do use US edition textbooks, workbooks, IPs, and CWPs. I line them up by chapters. Maybe it is better to do IPs half a year behind. We generally don't skip any part in the books.

I will review with him the concepts learned in 4a and test again and then do the same for 4b before we move on.

Thank you very much for your encouragement!

[Dassah]

Aomom,

I really can relate! :grouphug: My dd really "gets" Singapore style mathematical thinking but absolutely doesn't retain simple arithmetic without extensive review (outside of Singapore). I really saw this beginning in the 4 series and it wasn't until the 5a/b series that I did something about it. We actually did an entire second math curriculum during 5th (CLE) -- well, about half of each lesson by the time I crossed-off the problems that she had mastered -- which really helped. She is now using CLE as her primary curriculum but is doing Singapore 6a simultaneously (3x/wk). We take it slow and easy but she is no longer frustrated with math.

 

I do not believe that Singapore AS-IS works for every child. Some need constant review. ;) I feel like Singapore is superior to most other Math programs but I absolutely do not like it's format. I so wish there was a daily 5 or so problems of review on basic maths (fractional division, decimal long division, etc.). This "easy" stuff is what my child wasn't retaining with Singapore. She needed the monotonous, boring practice to remember how to procedurally work those problems. :glare: This is the same child who can easily set up difficult math problems thrown at her through Singapore. So, not every child fits in a perfect box. She needs both the review and the challenge.

Edited August 25, 2012 by Dassah

[Ali in OR]

We add in Horizons for that constant review. I cross out about half of it to keep the total workload reasonable, but through grade 6 we work through both Singapore and Horizons. I like the teaching in Singapore better but Horizons is great for that review.

[Susan of Croton]

I empathize with retention issues in Singapore. DS13 and DD11 used Singapore K-6 and are now in New Elementary Math. The key to the elementary years for us was to drill problem areas using Ray's arithmetic, a cheap, totally effective problem bank. Also, I found that with my ds especially, terms-of-art like "product" and "difference" had to be contantly emphasized in the lessons.

[Beth in SW WA]

I used TT for spiral review with dd9 when she did SM. Dd8 is doing SM4 along w/ TT for basic review of the boring stuff (long mult, div, rounding/estimating). We do SM for the word problems, Beast for the geometry. My hybrid approach helps with retention.

[laundrycrisis]

We add in Horizons for that constant review. I cross out about half of it to keep the total workload reasonable, but through grade 6 we work through both Singapore and Horizons. I like the teaching in Singapore better but Horizons is great for that review.

 

Our DS1 was not able to learn from Singapore. It moved too quickly. It also did not build his facts library in small enough increments. I think he had trouble storing the new information because of the way it was organized. After trying several online programs that also didn't help him with retention, I ended up switching him to a combination of Mastering Mathematics and Horizons. The spiral review of Horizons helps him retain through review, and working slightly ahead of Horizons in Mastering Mathematics helps him slowly build his library.

[JadeOrchidSong]

I empathize with retention issues in Singapore. DS13 and DD11 used Singapore K-6 and are now in New Elementary Math. The key to the elementary years for us was to drill problem areas using Ray's arithmetic, a cheap, totally effective problem bank. Also, I found that with my ds especially, terms-of-art like "product" and "difference" had to be contantly emphasized in the lessons.

 

Can you tell me where you buy Ray's arithmetic and how you use it as a review/supplement? Thank you!

Also, which book should I use for him? He finished 5A, but I haven' tested him yet. I wonder if he remembers more than SM4. I need to work on fractions still even though he is almost done with LOF fractions. He still struggles.

 

I found this link to all the google books of Ray's arithmetic.

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/showthread.php?t=44972

Edited August 31, 2012 by aomom

[Mallory]

We do all of the text and work book, then all of the IP (so they aren't lined up). We also do the CWP about half a year behind the text doing one page a day.

 

So by mixing up all of the parts some review is built in.

 

I do have one that is terrible at facts (but fast a skip counting, so he mostly slides by) that is using Xtramath for fact practice.

 

My oldest is in the middle of 6B, I can't wait to start Discovering Math!

[Susan of Croton]

Can you tell me where you buy Ray's arithmetic and how you use it as a review/supplement? Thank you!

Also, which book should I use for him? He finished 5A, but I haven' tested him yet. I wonder if he remembers more than SM4. I need to work on fractions still even though he is almost done with LOF fractions. He still struggles.

 

I found this link to all the google books of Ray's arithmetic.

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/showthread.php?t=44972

 

I ordered my set of Ray's Arithmetic (multi-volume set with separate key books) covering the entire K-8 arithmetic curriculum used in the 19th century from Mott Media in Michigan. This was several years ago, and it may be available online now or used. For grades 4-6, encompassing general skills of fractions, ratios, percentages, (which in themselves provide practice for math facts), use Ray's Intellectual Arithmetic.

 

Pick a chapter that is a problem area for your kid, and start asking them questions. You will gain insight into what exactly ails them; a great investment of your time.

 

I used these problems as oral questions to the kid, expecting an oral response. We used them while walking around in circles in the kitchen, and on walks. Only a few difficult ratio problems required paper. Fantastic drill. Plus, the long problem sets contain subtle changes in phrasing which helps kids develop the insight that math word problems can be phrased in different ways. For example, "What is half of two-thirds of nine?" is the same question as "What is two-thirds multiplied by nine then multiplied by one-half."

 

Since real world problems are phrased in a multiplicity of ways, Ray's Intellectual Arithmetic helps you recognize how to solve the problem as it is written in those multiple ways.

 

I hope this helps. I am sorry it took so long to reply; I did not realize you had a request for more info!

[JadeOrchidSong]

Thanks, Susan! It helps a lot to see how you use it in such detailed description and thanks for pointing out Which book ds may need.