Another s/o - if you DON'T vaccinate...

[thefragile7393]

so if your pet peeve is with those who don't vax' date=' how do you feel about people who DO vax but still get a possibly mild form of pertussis that they then pass on to you because you didn't know not to go around them because they didn't get diagnosed or have classic symptoms? that's the funky thing about pertussis and the pertussis vaccine.

 

and i am someone who has healthy children, but oldest has a host of allergies that prevent his vaccination. after his allergies (anaphylactic) starting popping up, it became clear that it was a chance i wasn't willing to take with my other children.[/quote']

:iagree: Exactly.

[tex-mex]

so if your pet peeve is with those who don't vax' date=' how do you feel about people who DO vax but still get a mild form of pertussis that they then pass on to you because you didn't know not to go around them because they didn't get diagnosed or have classic symptoms? that's the funky thing about pertussis and the pertussis vaccine.

 

and i am someone who has healthy children, but oldest has a host of allergies that prevent his vaccination. after his allergies (anaphylactic) starting popping up, it became clear that it was a chance i wasn't willing to take with my other children.[/quote']

I stand by what I said.

 

And yes... I do have issue with those who are sick and go out into public places and those who are with lowered immunities go to those same public places (i.e. supermarkets, stores, libraries) and get ill.

 

Immunizations were meant to protect not only individuals but also the broader population: the so-called herd immunity threshold. If a large enough segment of the population is unprotected from a disease — generally considered 5 percent to 15 percent, depending on the disease — even people with some degree of immunity through vaccination can have an elevated risk.

 

I get peeved due to this fact as I cannot go outside for an errand in cold/flu seasons as if I happen to get a simple virus, I go to the ER. I'm always am in the ER. I just got out of the ER 2 nights ago for high ammonia blood levels and illness. It frustrates me that there are people out there who go to work with a illness and think their work ethic is super duper -- but fail to think they are putting my health at risk. That is selfish. So I have to be extra cautious and live with limiting my outside exposure. Add to that issue something really bad like Whooping Cough, Measles, or more. :glare:

 

You do realize that that whooping cough (lately) has been mainly in VAXED kids right? That the shot does not prevent transmission or infection, just a milder case?

blaming those who don't vax is pretty ridiculous when you actually look at numbers and who is getting what. www.insidevaccines.info has studies taken straight from PubMed. I'd link directly but unfortunately where I am the overly sensitive blocker has it, well, blocked.

The unvaxed I know all take care of their kids when they are sick and if a vaccine available disease they keep them away from everyone. Actually, even those with vax'ed kids do the same. Blaming the unvaxed only for sickness is very unreasonable, considering ANYONE, vaxed or not can catch a disease and spread it-and it DOES happen-and no one should be lulled into a sense of security simply because they have a shot. My kids are no more of a threat because they have no shots-I keep them away from everyone anytime they are sick and kept them and myself away from others when they had a vaccine available disease.

Really? My friend is the Public Health Information Officer for my county here in TX.

 

According to his health department, the Whooping Cough and Measles cases are mainly with those who are not vaccinated. I know the CA Dept of Health also issued a Public Service commercial saying the same thing:

 

http://www.cdph.ca.gov/Pages/NR10-041.aspx

 

But Washington State, according to a federal study last year of kindergarten-age children, had the highest percentage of parents in the nation who voluntarily exempted their children from one or more vaccines, out of fear of side effects or for philosophical reasons.

 

So-called underimmunization — in which children do not get the full series of vaccinations — could also be a factor in compounding the outbreak, according to Mary Selecky, Washington State’s secretary of health.

 

Last year, the Washington Legislature passed a law requiring parents to prove that they had consulted a physician before declining vaccinations for their children.

 

-----------------------------------------------

 

Measles:

Most cases were tied to travel abroad, occurred in unvaccinated individuals

By Amanda Gardner HealthDay Reporter

THURSDAY, April 19 (HealthDay News) -- There were 222 cases and 17 outbreaks of the measles in the United States last year, more than four times the usual annual rate, U.S. health authorities reported Thursday.

"In 2011, we had the most number of reported measles in the U.S. in 15 years," said Dr. Anne Schuchat, director of the National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Disease at the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

 

In the prior decade, an average of 60 cases and four outbreaks were reported annually.

 

As of last Friday, CDC had received reports of 27 cases of measles for 2012, though "it is too soon in the year to know whether this year will be as bad or worse than last year," said Schuchat, who spoke at a news conference on Thursday.

 

The highly infectious illness seems to be making an unexpected comeback. Measles was declared eliminated in 2000 after public health measures successfully interrupted the transmission of disease from person-to-person in the United States. The disease is still endemic in many other parts of the world, however.

 

In fact, 200 of the 222 U.S. cases in 2011 were related to foreign travel, with 72 of the cases emerging in people who had recently traveled abroad, more than half of them to Europe, which has experienced its own explosion in the disease in recent years.

 

Authorities weren't able to determine the source in the other 22 cases.

Although the United States has a high vaccination rate of 90 percent, "measles is extremely infectious and very good at finding those few people who aren't vaccinated," Schuchat warned.

 

Of the 196 U.S. residents who had measles in 2011, 166 were unvaccinated or didn't know if they'd been vaccinated, although 141 were eligible to be vaccinated, the CDC report found.

 

Sixty-six percent of the 141 who were eligible for vaccination were between the ages of 16 months through 19 years, the time span a person is most likely to be vaccinated. Three-quarters had not received the vaccine because of a philosophical, religious or personal exemption.

 

There have been no deaths from measles in the United States since 2008, noted Dr. Jane Seward, deputy director of the CDC's Division of Viral Diseases. But one of every three people who contracted the disease last year had to be hospitalized.

 

Measles is extremely contagious, with symptoms including a total-body rash along with flu-like symptoms such as cough and fever. The CDC and other public health authorities strongly recommend that all individuals keep up to date with their vaccinations, especially if they are planning to travel abroad.

 

The CDC recommends that all children receive two doses of the measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine, the first at 12-15 months of age and the second at 4-6 years. Very young infants can get vaccinated earlier if they are going to be traveling abroad or if they are going to be in contact with an international visitor.

 

"Measles is preventable and unvaccinated people put themselves and others at risk for measles and its complications, particularly those who are too young to be vaccinated who can sometimes have the worst complications," Schuchat said.

 

Authorities are particularly worried with the summer travel season looming and many Americans planning to attend the Olympics in London.

 

More information:

Find out more about measles at the Nemours Foundation (http://kidshealth.org/parent/infections/lung/measles.html ).

 

SOURCES: April 19, 2012 press conference with Anne Schuchat, M.D., director, National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Disease, U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Jane Seward, MBBS, deputy director, division of viral diseases, CDC; April 20, 2012, Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report

 

 

------------------------------------------------------

Everyone has the right to do what they want. I commend you, thefragile7393, for keeping at home when ill. I wish more people did the same. As a former schoolteacher, I know of many parents who sent their kids to school with enough Dimeatapp to keep them okay until 10-11am and then -- in the nurse's office for the rest of the day. The parent is working and cannot afford daycare or a babysitter.

 

I'm just popping on here to speak up for those who have an impaired immune system and share my viewpoint. The "herd" has ill or less able members and we need those who are ill to stay home. Do not go out in public places. Fine if you want your right to not immunize... but don't bring your sick kid to storytime, McDonald's, or the store sharing his illness. Same goes to the work warrior who thinks nothing of going to work ill and thinking they're fine... it is just a stomach bug. Aaaaauuuugh. :glare: (Off my soap box for now. My apologies. Feel free to lambast away...)

Edited August 5, 2012 by tex-mex

[jackson'smama]

Everyone has the right to do what they want. I commend you, thefragile7393, for keeping at home when ill. I wish more people did the same. As a former schoolteacher, I know of many parents who sent their kids to school with enough Dimeatapp to keep them okay until 10-11am and then -- in the nurse's office for the rest of the day. The parent is working and cannot afford daycare or a babysitter.

 

I'm just popping on here to speak up for those who have an impaired immune system and share my viewpoint. The "herd" has ill or less able members and we need those who are ill to stay home. Do not go out in public places. Fine if you want your right to not immunize... but don't bring your sick kid to storytime, McDonald's, or the store sharing his illness. Same goes to the work warrior who thinks nothing of going to work ill and thinking they're fine... it is just a stomach bug. Aaaaauuuugh. :glare: (Off my soap box for now. My apologies. Feel free to lambast away...)

 

:iagree:absolutely! immunizations or not, i fully believe one should stay home when one is ill and i do the same for myself and my family. we actually stay home a bit more even when we're fine but we hear alot of "something's going around" kind of stuff - just to be cautious when possible.

[mommaduck]

:iagree:

 

Son and I have a host of health issues. Ranging from a rare liver disease, diabetes, hypertension, and so on. Basically we have compromised immunity. We have up to date vaccinations and our yearly flu shot. But due to a rise in measles and whooping cough, we have to be careful with whom we come into contact with when it rears its ugly head. My pet peeve are with those who do not vax -- it makes life difficult for people like my son and I.

And vaxes have messed up my daughter's immune system a bit. She is slowly being brought up to date on certain ones, but only because she is almost fully grown now. As a child, it nearly killed her. There are those that have a weakened immune system and because of their weakened immune system, they CAN'T (or shouldn't) be vaccinated.

 

btw: Pertusis is a big NO on her list of what she can and can't be vaccinated for. Looks like it doesn't matter as it's the vaccinated people that are getting it. We are also ones that stay home when ill. However, I did have one Sunday School ask me to remove a child due to a drippy nose (clear drip, not green or yellow...which is usually the rule for removal from Sunday School), because of an immune compromised child. I thought it was a little over the top, but I honestly had no problem removing my child. I figured that they were simply being extra cautious and I didn't really know just HOW immune compromised that child was. Now that I have children with plant and food allergies, I'm grateful for camps and such that pay extra attention to such and take precautions.

Edited August 5, 2012 by mommaduck

[StaceyinLA]

I thought this controversy was actually going to be avoided. The thread was moving along quite nicely there for a while. Thank you to all of those who responded to my original post.

 

For the record, I have to add that I do not buy for one minute any "scientific proof" up to this point that vaccines do not contribute to autism. It may be a gene that makes a child more susceptible, but I am absolutely convinced, based on WAY too many commentaries from parents (and an example from my own family) of children who "change" after a series of vaccines, that there is some correlation. I won't be trusting those that develop, fund, or stand to make millions off of vaccinations, to tell me what the dangers really are. Just the toxic levels of aluminum in a single shot are enough to make you wonder WTH they are thinking, and they give kids 4 at once, multiple times, as TINY infants!! Sorry. Not gonna drink THAT Kool-Aid.

Edited August 5, 2012 by StaceyinLA

[Spy Car]

I thought this controversy was actually going to be avoided. The thread was moving along quite nicely there for a while.

 

You thought it was great so long as the thread was spreading public health threatening nonsense.

 

 

For the record, I have to add that I do not buy for one minute any "scientific proof" up to this point that vaccines do not contribute to autism.

 

Such as this. There is no link between autism and vaccines. Not one scintilla of evidence that demonstrates a link. But the incessant insistence on anti-scientific "opinion" in place of reason is a serious threat to public health.

 

Bill

Edited August 5, 2012 by Spy Car

[sarahf.]

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2012/08/03/157967215/experts-fear-whooping-cough-vaccines-shield-is-waning

 

"Some 77 percent of children and adolescents who got whooping cough in Washington State last year were up to date on their required shots, she notes."

The majority of pertusiss infections are within the vaccinated population. There has never been a long term scientific study comparing the vaccinated and unvaccinated population, until this is done we will not be vaccinating our children.

[mommymilkies]

There is no reason for more fear mongering and insulting. She specifically asked those of us who do NOT vax. So please start a s/o so the OP can get her answers.

[Spy Car]

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2012/08/03/157967215/experts-fear-whooping-cough-vaccines-shield-is-waning

 

"Some 77 percent of children and adolescents who got whooping cough in Washington State last year were up to date on their required shots, she notes."

The majority of pertusiss infections are within the vaccinated population. There has never been a long term scientific study comparing the vaccinated and unvaccinated population, until this is done we will not be vaccinating our children.

 

Here is the salient points in the linked NPR article and the Wired article:

 

 

In the mean time, the vaccine is still the most powerful weapon there is for slowing down the whooping cough epidemic, Hayes says. It still provides better coverage than no vaccine. If you've been vaccinated and get sick, the disease is not as severe, doesn't last as long, and isn't as infectious.

 

 

 

There’s an important footnote to that math, though. The vaccines confer protection on a certain percentage of the population that has been vaccinated — but if a substantial proportion of the population is not vaccinated, then what would otherwise be a small gap in the wall of herd immunity potentially can become a gaping hole. If the protection conferred by the childhood vaccination is waning unexpectedly early, then reinforcing vaccination at all ages — in childhood and also through adult boosters — becomes more important than ever.

 

Bill

[4everHis]

Absolutely not.

 

Why?

 

Because the majority of the cases have been in vaccinated people. ;)

 

Oh, and looking at the actual numbers of reported cases in my state reaffirmed that the media continues to blow things out of proportion. ;) If you'd like to see how many cases were in your state, go to http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/, click on "weekly report" there on the left, choose the week you would like to see reports for, and click the download link.

 

nm

[Spy Car]

Absolutely not.

 

Why?

 

Because the majority of the cases have been in vaccinated people. ;)

 

Oh, and looking at the actual numbers of reported cases in my state reaffirmed that the media continues to blow things out of proportion. ;) If you'd like to see how many cases were in your state, go to http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/, click on "weekly report" there on the left, choose the week you would like to see reports for, and click the download link.

 

I wonder if you have a very good understanding of epidemiology or statistics?

 

If (to give an example) a vaccine like the current Pertussis vaccine confers immunity to 80% of the individuals who take it, and 90% of the population takes it, then out of 100,000 individuals 90,000 people would be vaccinated.

 

Of the 90,000 individuals vaccinated 80% of those people would benefit from immunity and 20% would not be fully immunized. That makes for 72,000 covered and 18,000 open to contraction of Pertussis.

 

Of the 10% who are to vaccinated 100% are open to infection. That is 10,000 people.

 

When one compares the 100% of non-vaccinated people who are vulnerable (the 10,000) it might look to some like "the majority" of cases are among the vaccinated (as it is true that the 18,000 still open to infection is higher) but it misses the point.

 

80% coverage is a lot better than zero coverage.

 

Not to mention that the disease is less severe, less long lasting, and less infection in those who have been vaccinated.

 

If y'all want to gamble with the Heath of your children and with the heath of others who are vulnerable to this disease it is at least imperative that one understands the true risks and the moral consequences.

 

Bill

Edited August 5, 2012 by Spy Car

[esavvymom]

Not after reading THIS Article:

 

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/07/30/whooping-cough-vaccine.aspx?e_cid=20120805_SNL_MS_1

 

From the article (references and such would be in the article)

In 2010, the largest outbreak of whooping cough in over 50 years occurred in California. Around that same time, a scare campaign was launched in the California by Pharma-funded medical trade associations, state health officials and national media, targeting people opting out of receiving pertussis vaccine, falsely accusing them of causing the outbreak.

However, research published in March of this year paints a very different picture than the one spread by the media2.

 

 

In fact, the study showed that 81 percent of 2010 California whooping cough cases in people under the age of 18 occurred in those who were fully up to date on the whooping cough vaccine. Eleven percent had received at least one shot, but not the entire recommended series, and only eight percent of those stricken were unvaccinated.

 

Plus- reading the stories of those who took the vaccines: Specifically the page about DTP/Pertussis vaccines - http://thinktwice.com/dpt.htm

But that site has lots of others too.

 

 

I think you have to ask yourself, who is providing the basis of the "studies"? A 3rd party, or the Drug-company?

[Momof3littles]

MedPage today had a piece up recently in which both the Washington State Dept of Health and a representative from the CDC state that the most recent outbreak is not likely to be driven by non vaccinating parents.

 

And rates in that age group were high despite high rates of booster vaccination with Tdap, further supporting the premise of waning immunity with acellular vaccines, according to the secretary of the state's department of health, Mary Selecky.

That also means people who refuse to have their children vaccinated probably aren't driving the epidemic, Selecky added.

"That's a bad thing, but we can't blame this whole wave on that phenomenon," Schuchat said. (Schuchat is from the CDC).

 

http://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/vaccines/33829

 

 

You most likely need a login to read the article above.

 

There have been a few pieces that have speculated whether vaccinating with the acellular pertussis vaccine has done a good job of protecting the most vulnerable, but hypothesizing that perhaps that has happened at the expense of allowing it to naturally circulate and provide a natural "booster" on a community level. Many people, if cultured, would have pertussis in their passageways, yet won't get sick. They have subclinical infection that keeps their immunity boosted. Some will get sick, of course.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22111856

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3084147/

 

eta: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16439331/

 

 

We obviously want to protect the most vulnerable, but the loss of community circulation has a potential downside, too.

Edited August 5, 2012 by Momof3littles

[mjselmk]

We delay vaccines until age 2 or 3 and then slowly and selectively catch up on those we are concerned about. Because of the Pertussis outbreak this year, and most especially because we will have a newborn in December, we are doing the DTAP/TDAP with our kids. My oldest had a reaction as a child so she only receives the DT, but she also my healthiest and perhaps the least likely to transmit to baby. I am debating getting the booster myself after I deliver, but would like to understand a bit more about the effect that vaccines have on a nursing baby, if any. It is my understanding that parents and grandparents are the most common causes of transmission to infants. On that front, my husband and one set of grandparents have been vaccinated so far.

 

We are considering vaccinating the new baby on time for DTAP but are terrified about the potential link to SIDS.