Mfw whl & iew

[ChicoryChick]

I am planning on using MFW AHL this coming year and hoping to use MFW WHL next year. I also like the idea of doing "Teaching the Classics" and "Windows of the World" combination. Do you think this would be to much on the already scheduled British lit.?

 

As you can see I like to plan ahead. ;)

[LatinTea]

AHL is Ancient, not British lit. Maybe you meant WHL?

[ChicoryChick]

I said WHL, I just mentioned that I amd using AHL this year.

[Maverick_Mom]

So what you're saying is that you're using AHL this year (me, too :)), you're using WHL next year, and you're wondering about adding in extra literature study when you do British lit in WHL next year?

[cbollin]

I am planning on using MFW AHL this coming year and hoping to use MFW WHL next year. I also like the idea of doing "Teaching the Classics" and "Windows of the World" combination. Do you think this would be to much on the already scheduled British lit.?

 

As you can see I like to plan ahead. ;)

 

Kay,

 

I could go look up more about those programs... but.. let's pretend you like MFW for all of high school... would you be willing to wait until 12th grade to use Teaching the Classics an WorW combo? it might fit better in MFW stuff that way..

 

I don't know enough about the other materials. There are a few sections in WHL with "free reading" instead of packaged reading. The students are doing research paper those weeks. Could parts of the program be used then?

 

I guess I could look up details on IEW programs but without having used them, I obviously don't have the personal experience to talk how to put them together.

 

-crystal

[ChicoryChick]

So what you're saying is that you're using AHL this year (me, too :)), you're using WHL next year, and you're wondering about adding in extra literature study when you do British lit in WHL next year?

 

Yes, That is what I was saying. :)

[ChicoryChick]

Kay,

 

I could go look up more about those programs... but.. let's pretend you like MFW for all of high school... would you be willing to wait until 12th grade to use Teaching the Classics an WorW combo? it might fit better in MFW stuff that way..

 

I don't know enough about the other materials. There are a few sections in WHL with "free reading" instead of packaged reading. The students are doing research paper those weeks. Could parts of the program be used then?

 

I guess I could look up details on IEW programs but without having used them, I obviously don't have the personal experience to talk how to put them together.

 

-crystal

I might be able to wait until 12th, but have been drooling over TTC for a while and since it covers at least 2 British titles (Jane Eyre & Hamlet [as well as To Kill a Mocking bird which I was going to throw in her free reading anyway]) so thought it would fall in nicely with WHL. If you do look into it Crystal, Look under "Introduction to Literary Analysis" by Jill Pike.

[Penny from Tenny]

I have "planned" to use those very materials with Jill Pike's syllabus for them over the next 2 years - I figure with the English already figured in with MFW that it might be too much to cover in 1 year, and it might take us that long to get through it anyway - ha! This is our first year with MFW highschool so I have NO idea if this is a grandiose idea or not. I'll keep you posted! We just finished our first week with AHL and it wasn't too bad so I'm hoping it is doable. My son likes having control of his schedule so that is a huge motivator. I just wanted him to have the literary analysis instruction on the front end of highschool even though some of the books used do fit better in WHL. I figure I can tweak and replace assignments in MFW if there is overload. We plan to just add it in a week or so, take it slowly, and see how it goes. If we get any of it done it is icing on the cake as MFW has a full English credit as is.

[ChicoryChick]

I have "planned" to use those very materials with Jill Pike's syllabus for them over the next 2 years - I figure with the English already figured in with MFW that it might be too much to cover in 1 year, and it might take us that long to get through it anyway - ha! This is our first year with MFW highschool so I have NO idea if this is a grandiose idea or not. I'll keep you posted! We just finished our first week with AHL and it wasn't too bad so I'm hoping it is doable. My son likes having control of his schedule so that is a huge motivator. I just wanted him to have the literary analysis instruction on the front end of highschool even though some of the books used do fit better in WHL. I figure I can tweak and replace assignments in MFW if there is overload. We plan to just add it in a week or so, take it slowly, and see how it goes. If we get any of it done it is icing on the cake as MFW has a full English credit as is.

 

I never thought of stretching it out over 2 years. That might be an idea, just not this year as I have already used up my budget and dd will already be doing Logic, Spanish, Fine Arts (XI would put this off until nrxt year when MFW "plans" it, but she will be in a play this summer and is taking Ballroom dance lessons), Geography,and Typing/Personal Computer course.

[cbollin]

I might be able to wait until 12th, but have been drooling over TTC for a while and since it covers at least 2 British titles (Jane Eyre & Hamlet [as well as To Kill a Mocking bird which I was going to throw in her free reading anyway]) so thought it would fall in nicely with WHL. If you do look into it Crystal, Look under "Introduction to Literary Analysis" by Jill Pike.

 

thanks for the extra info... here are my thoughts on it. Much of what is taught in ILA by J. Pike and combining the TTC and WotW... is covered in MFW's WHL with other resources so there would be some duplication going on. If you wanted to have ILA as extra resource to do a little bit more, or to expand on the lessons in Writer's Inc.. that might work. in the ILA syllabus, it says you can sub books. So, instead of Hamlet... why not do those exercises with Julius Caesar play instead (that's in WHL)... or when you do the plot summary and literary analysis with WHL assignments (Cry Beloved Country, P & P, and others).. then you could pull instruction time from ILA to expand the lessons in WHL.

 

I'd use it as a teacher resource to expand the existing assignments to help your student understand the WHL lessons. I wouldn't try to do it as full program in addition to WHL.

 

I know in the mfw sequence of stuff.. .in jr. high with Progeny Press guides and to some extent with Writing Strands, much of this was covered along the way, so they have that going into high school. Then, in high school they go a little more. The skills in the ILA (pike) materials are not left out in whl. Writer's Inc and the other materials in WHL cover these skills, but if a teacher needs more help for direct instruction for a student, I could see the appeal in using what you're looking at. But I know I'd over do it if I were trying to do both as full programs.

 

And even in US1 with the MFW version of the Stobaugh lit supplement, there is plenty of lit analysis going on. plenty of worldview stuff.

 

-crystal

[Penny from Tenny]

thanks for the extra info... here are my thoughts on it. Much of what is taught in ILA by J. Pike and combining the TTC and WotW... is covered in MFW's WHL with other resources so there would be some duplication going on. If you wanted to have ILA as extra resource to do a little bit more, or to expand on the lessons in Writer's Inc.. that might work. in the ILA syllabus, it says you can sub books. So, instead of Hamlet... why not do those exercises with Julius Caesar play instead (that's in WHL)... or when you do the plot summary and literary analysis with WHL assignments (Cry Beloved Country, P & P, and others).. then you could pull instruction time from ILA to expand the lessons in WHL.

 

I'd use it as a teacher resource to expand the existing assignments to help your student understand the WHL lessons. I wouldn't try to do it as full program in addition to WHL.

 

I know in the mfw sequence of stuff.. .in jr. high with Progeny Press guides and to some extent with Writing Strands, much of this was covered along the way, so they have that going into high school. Then, in high school they go a little more. The skills in the ILA (pike) materials are not left out in whl. Writer's Inc and the other materials in WHL cover these skills, but if a teacher needs more help for direct instruction for a student, I could see the appeal in using what you're looking at. But I know I'd over do it if I were trying to do both as full programs.

 

And even in US1 with the MFW version of the Stobaugh lit supplement, there is plenty of lit analysis going on. plenty of worldview stuff.

 

-crystal

 

I know I'm not the OP, but thanks, Crystal, this is helpful.

[TechWife]

We are going to use MFW WHL this coming year. I find the writing instruction in MFW to be lacking. Additionally, there isn't much in the way of literary analysis helps.

 

When MFW schedules the research paper, I am going to schedule in IEW's Writing Research Papers. The IEW program is longer that MFW allows for the research paper, so I am going to start the research paper the first week, when MFW doesn't have any writing scheduled. We will skip the MFW week 2 writing assignment (writing a play). That will give me the ten weeks needed to do the first part of the research paper book. Last year, we did most of The Elegant Essay, so we are going to finish that up while utilizing the MFW writing prompts in the following months. Later in the year, we will go back to Writing Research Papers and do part 2.

 

I also want to incorporate the instruction in WoW, but I haven't laid it out yet. I have the lesson plans for the combo TTC and WoW, but I haven't had time to go through them. I might let the books in the lesson plans stand as is or I might substitute MFW books. I don't plan on giving my son a break from literature while he is writing, but then I again I haven't looked everything in detail, so I don't know what the academic load will be if we do it this way. Hopefully I'll have time to work on it this week or next.

[Suzq]

We did AHL and WHL plus TTC and WttW.

 

We were in a co-op that wanted to use TTC and WttW in the year that we would also be doing WHL. It worked fine for us. However, We did TTC during the summer before beginning WHL. Then we met every other week for WttW lessons. We did not do all the lessons that Jill Pike had planned. We skipped the "To Kill A Mockingbird" as some people had done that book already. We did use "Jane Eyre" and we also used "Animal Farm" in the second semester which is when WHL also uses it.

 

Now I also was co-teaching the WttW class. It takes quite a huge time commitment to learn and then teach. I basically did everything the kids were required to do. I never had a literary analysis class before this. I enjoyed it immensely but I don't have little ones around anymore. I don't know what your situation is like but WttW is time consuming especially alongside of WHL. My son managed to get it done but I swapped a few of the WHL requirements for WttW. Also we did not do "Hamlet" at all. In the end I gave my son 1.5 credits for his work in WHL,TTC, and WttW. I think with the time he put in it probably was worth 2 credits though.

 

As an aside, I loved WttW and told the kids to keep their workbook for College classes that ask for literary analysis. It will be a great help that I wish I would have had in college.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Suzq

[Lori in MS]

We are going to use MFW WHL this coming year. I find the writing instruction in MFW to be lacking. Additionally, there isn't much in the way of literary analysis helps.

 

 

I am a little concerned about this. I found my son needed more writing instruction than AHL provided. I haven't bought WHL yet. Are you saying it doesn't teach how to write the reasearch paper, it just assigns it? How is Writers Inc.? Is it helpful?

 

I love MFW but writing is the hardest subject for me and my children. Sometimes I wish it wasn't so integrated so I could do IEW's SICC C. It is just too much to add. My son is taking a speech class this year so he will already have 2 English credits with that and WHL. I just don't want him to flounder this year. I am not sure what to do.

[ChicoryChick]

Writing was never one of my stengths and I do love the extra hand holding that IEW does provide. Crystal, I do like your idea of subbing out the books (some of them) for the ones used in MFW and I will be watxhing this before assigning as well. I do love listening to both Adam Andrews and Andrew Padewa and will probably do this next summer before the school year starts. Thanks so much for all the input. I really appreciate it and is giving me some things yo chew on. I am pen to more, so feel free to keep it coming. :)

[TechWife]

I am a little concerned about this. I found my son needed more writing instruction than AHL provided. I haven't bought WHL yet. Are you saying it doesn't teach how to write the reasearch paper, it just assigns it? How is Writers Inc.? Is it helpful?

 

The only writing instruction provided is to read designated pages in the Writer's Inc. book. To me, that book is more like reference book. In order for my son to use it, I would need to provide a lot of direct teaching on forming arguments, etc.. Your son may be different, though.

 

I love MFW but writing is the hardest subject for me and my children. Sometimes I wish it wasn't so integrated so I could do IEW's SICC C. It is just too much to add. My son is taking a speech class this year so he will already have 2 English credits with that and WHL. I just don't want him to flounder this year. I am not sure what to do.

 

Remember that you don't have to do everything - you really can drop all of the writing assignments in MFW if you need or want to do that. We didn't do AHL, so I have no experience there. I do know that in WHL, there are a couple of writing assignments that are easy. For example, they have the students complete note pages on each character in Pride and Prejudice. This is counted as a writing assignment. To me, that is note taking. Now, after they finish reading that particular book, they are to write a character sketch of each character. I consider that to be literary analysis and writing, but more towards literary analysis. I would have no problem giving a writing assignment while he is reading Pride and Prejudice and taking notes. I would not give a writing assignment while he is writing his character sketches.

 

I recommend looking through the whole year of AHL and noting when the writing assignments are and where they are - you may find some room there that you didn't know you had.

 

Also, keep in mind the priorities that your son has - what is most important at this point - finding a solid writing program he can follow or completing AHL as written? If he drops the writing from AHL but has writing assignments from another writing program, he will still have done enough to get an English credit.

[cbollin]

I am a little concerned about this. I found my son needed more writing instruction than AHL provided. I haven't bought WHL yet. Are you saying it doesn't teach how to write the reasearch paper, it just assigns it? How is Writers Inc.? Is it helpful?

 

I'm interested in hearing how it went for others. If any of my experience is helpful on it... But then again, I thought AHL manual walked them through how to write topic sentences and all of that. I recognize different students need more than others. something like Essentials in Writing would cover it in my opinion (well at least the 7th grade essentials would. it takes the one week lesson in AHL on topic sentence and format but does it slower over more lessons.. I could see that as summer course for some students.)

 

I think WHL and Writer's Inc walked them through process. There was an expectation in the manual to work with the student on it for a few minutes each day. Read the material from Writer's Inc, and discuss it.

the process was about help them to select a topic and narrow it down. Begin a working thesis statement.

week on how to do research - using the library options... with more libraries going to all digital stuff, I think some of the Writer's Inc pages were a little outdated with the idea of Readers Guide to Periodicals. that's just not done in our local libraries anymore.... so we did what manual and Writer's inc suggested and asked for help at reference desk for tour of references.

 

I think the examples in Writer's Inc on making notes and notecards was very helpful.

 

there was a section in how to organize your research before beginning to write. MLA documentation and in text citations were taught

 

they write their draft.. revised. edit.. turn in bibliography for a check..

 

 

There were a few things here and there that I wish had been done a little differently or a heads up note give. I don't know if I still have that list anywhere or not.

 

dislikes on Writer's Inc - I like the rubric feel on grading. But I can see how people would be frustrated that it isn't a checklist of did they include X number of Y factors... But it is a subjective rubric of about 15 check points. I can see people not liking it because it gives example, but doesn't break the example down into step by step by detailed step. Some students will need someone to go through it and point out things like "see this period here after the author's name... you need to do that on your bibliography like that. "

 

is that enough, or not enough? I don't know. I didn't feel like my student needed "sentence structure" instruction by this point. She needed editorial comments on her writing. She needed help to narrow a topic. mileage will vary?

 

I know it's not super popular yet.. but I could see using essentials in writing 7th grade for more instruction in fundamentals. I say 7th grade one just because 8th-12th aren't released for a few more days and no one knows anything about them yet. That way it is about skills for a specific assignment instead of trying to do a full other program.

 

or use helps on the OWL (online writing lab) from Purdue Univ.

 

I can see another dislike in Writer's Inc -- I thought the glossary of literary terms was nice as a reference and I am totally comfortable with it just being a reference list. I can see that others might prefer detailed lessons on at least some of the terms or do more with them.

 

 

overall I liked Writers inc as a reference. and then as needed, we gave one on one time with high schooler to take it from read and understand it, to apply this part to your assignment. Usually it was in the editing/revision stage that we could notice need for a touch more instruction here and there.

 

and of course... encourage them along the way.

 

don't know if any of that helps or not. I don't feel like I'm all that strong in how to teach/coach writing to make her an award winning author in high school. that's ok.

 

-crystal

[Lori in MS]

 

I recommend looking through the whole year of AHL and noting when the writing assignments are and where they are - you may find some room there that you didn't know you had.

 

Also, keep in mind the priorities that your son has - what is most important at this point - finding a solid writing program he can follow or completing AHL as written? If he drops the writing from AHL but has writing assignments from another writing program, he will still have done enough to get an English credit.

 

I think finding a writing problem he can follow is the most important. Once I get WHL I will look through it to see what will work.

 

Thank you for your comments Crystal. We must have been typing at the same time.

Edited July 29, 2012 by Lori in MS

[cbollin]

. For example, they have the students complete note pages on each character in Pride and Prejudice. This is counted as a writing assignment. To me, that is note taking. Now, after they finish reading that particular book, they are to write a character sketch of each character. .

 

oh we were typing at same time....

 

I guess I read that "assignment" differently.. My WHL manual calls it notes like you did. It was called "an informal chart"

That daily note taking was not a graded assignment nor counted as writing assignments. It was prep work for the character sketch for each character listed. One model was given. We used online spark notes to have more examples to model.

 

but my dd and I saw the daily notes on it was to make sure she didn't form opinion of a character based just on first impressions but over the whole story. This was much like assignments in Progeny Press guides in other years.

 

yes.. MFW is "parent guided" not fully independent just grade.

 

 

-crystal