Interesting Article ~ The Disadvantages of an Elite Education

[debbiec]

This has been posted on our local homeschool board and I thought it was an interesting read. I did not take the time to research the publication, the American Scholar, so I have no idea what they typically publish. Nor do I have any knowledge of the author. Though this article is referring to elite universities, sadly, we hear a version of these same views about classical homeschooling/education. But on the flip side, he is all about what the classical education movement has been, going back to its roots. That education is for personal development and not for career climbing, which in his view, has been what elite education has become.....just a guaranteed step on the ladder to success.

 

The Disadvantages of an Elite Education

[Kathleen in VA]

Intriguing article - lots of scope for the imagination. One of my favorite lines was:

 

Being an intellectual begins with thinking your way outside of your assumptions and the system that enforces them.

 

Thanks for sharing.

[AmyB]

unless you are the sort of person who rubs your education in other people's faces. It is always nice to talk to people in your own field or your own educational level, but that doesn't preclude you from being able to talk to richer or poorer, different cultures, different educational level, different field of study, etc. That is what makes life interesting.

[Shelly in VA]

That's a good point, and it points to the fact that while you certainly can be influenced by those around you without realizing it (that is, you can adopt an elitist attitude if you are surrounded by that w/o realizing fully how elitist you are becoming), it can work that way for ANYONE in ANY situation. I'm thinking specifically of one of dh's uncles, now retired, who spent his career as a blue collar worker in an industrial plant. He NEVER failed at family gatherings to tell a story about how stupid the college educated engineers he worked with were, and how much more the hourly employees knew. Dh and I are both engineers by degree, as were both of this man's sons-in-law. So, in a way, he had become "elitist" and unable to talk with or respect those different from him, KWIM?

 

On the flip side, look at Mike Rowe, the host of the Dirty Jobs show on cable. He works and chats with shrimpers, garbage collectors, roadkill removal specialists, etc. He makes fun of the jobs, but not of the workers; he shows an honest respect for and interest in the people themselves. Yet he is college educated, with a degree from Towson University, and he has sung professionally with Baltimore Opera. He could be elitist, but he's not.

 

So, really, it's an individual's choice to connect with others, regardless of background, or not. People should respect others, and work on a non-judgemental attitude. The importance of this article, to me, is that it makes us aware that we need to guard AGAINST elitism.

 

No more soapbox from me!

 

Shelly

 

No more soapbox from me this morning.

[debbiec]

Yes, that is what I took away from it, to guard against elitism in our case. I sometimes find myself a little off track and need a derailment to get me back on track mentally.

[Laura K (NC)]

It seems to me that this article blames elite universities for a tendency in some of their students -- that is, to isolate themselves in an ivory-tower academia. Not all ivy-leaguers do this, and I don't think the universities themselves cause the situation, which even the author admitted in the last paragraph (thus killing his own premise).

 

I also don't like the idea of the divide between the educated and the uneducated being a problem, because there's a tendency there to cut down the Haves so they meet the Have-Nots. If there is a divide between those with education and ignorant plumbers, it's the job of plumbers to put down the clicker and read a few Great Books if it makes them feel better about the situation. One of the smartest men I knew in college worked at Wendy's flipping burgers. He didn't have a college education but he was literate with the motivated literacy of the self-educated and he was a great poet. Men and women like him keep the value of a four-year education in perspective, no matter where it's from. As I work on my master's degree, knowing I will never learn in college as much as one friend, who never took a single course in this subject (church history and theology), all I can say to this article is that it's sour grapes. It's far easier to criticize an elitist movement for being elite than to work for self-perfection. The same argument is used by many in the black community against those of color who want to work and make something of themselves. Those who are in the gutter want to keep everybody in there with them to keep them company.

 

I have friends who went to Rice and William and Mary, and they seem like normal people to me.

 

It was thought provoking, though, and I'm glad the OP posted it. :thumbup1:

[Myrtle]

This has been posted on our local homeschool board and I thought it was an interesting read. I did not take the time to research the publication, the American Scholar, so I have no idea what they typically publish. Nor do I have any knowledge of the author. Though this article is referring to elite universities, sadly, we hear a version of these same views about classical homeschooling/education. But on the flip side, he is all about what the classical education movement has been, going back to its roots. That education is for personal development and not for career climbing, which in his view, has been what elite education has become.....just a guaranteed step on the ladder to success.

 

The Disadvantages of an Elite Education

 

Since the author of that article is into diversity then he'll be happy to welcome my dissenting opinion.

 

That is the biggest piece of hypocritical politically correct self congratulatory clap trap that I've read in a long time.

 

The charge of social elitism against graduates of the Ivys has been around for as long as I can remember, but don't fear, this author is different. We know this because he told us so. And despite accusations that "being smart isnt the same as being an intellectual" he informs us that he is enlightened about this as well. Who could hope for more? He's got his elite education, a trophy job, and is not only socially aware but he's ALSO an intellectual!

 

"Since the idea of the intellectual emerged in the 18th century, it has had, at its core, a commitment to social transformation."

 

No. Plato originated the idea of the philospoher king, the intellectual. That goes much further back.

 

"I’ve been struck, during my time at Yale, by how similar everyone looks. "

 

Judging people on the basis of their clothing. I can't think of how much superficial it can get. Is a this profound or intellectual insight? One can find high school drop outs doing as much.

 

"The tyranny of the normal must be very heavy in their lives. "

 

And yet Yale, Harvard, and Princeton graduates are anything but normal in their academic and intellectual lives, including insights and solutions in the fields of medicine, business, politics, economics, math, etc. Maybe MLK was right, it's the content of their character and ideas that count.

 

"A pretty good description of an elite college campus, including the part about never being allowed to feel alone. What did my students think of this, I wanted to know? What does it mean to go to school at a place where you’re never alone? "

 

Another English professor substituting therapy in lieu of literature. Nice.

 

"What happens when busyness and sociability leave no room for solitude? The ability to engage in introspection,"

 

I know the answer to this one. You get online and exchange hundreds of posts and emails with people and talk about how much sad it is that OTHER people have no room for solitude.

 

More than likely he's earning the average of what any Ivy Leager does, upwards of 150,000 and sitting around his university office and feeling guilty about all the problems in the world and to make himself feel better he likes to be socially aware of things.

 

Now that he is an enlightened Ivy graduate no one can accuse him of doing anything wrong. Political correctness isn't about changing the world or actually rectifying real problems it's about acting in such a way that no one can accuse you of having contributed to those problems.

 

Like Eurthyphro trying to pinpoint the defintion of piety, this author abdicates all reason in his claims for secular piety. (Socrates then asked Euthyphro if the gods are good because they are holy or if they are holy because they are good). Now if only this secular Eurthyphro will instruct me on what true morality is (don't dress like everyone else!) then I will become his convert.

[Michelle in MO]

author is trying to make, but it seems to me that the attitude of elitism is cultivated.

 

Isn't there a false dichotomy present here? In other words, why can we not educate our children well, and at the same time educate them to have humility while we teach them? The two qualities are not mutually exclusive, IMO. One can have an Ivy League education and be humble, can one not? The attitude of elitism doesn't have to necessarily follow an Ivy League (or elite) education.

 

I'm not necessarily looking for an Ivy League education for our daughters, but I do want them to take advantage of the best education possible, given their gifts and talents and the opportunities that open up for them.

 

I'm certainly not as well educated as I'd like to be; hence the draw towards classical education. However, I do possess a college degree, and I've never yet had difficulty finding something to talk about with our plumber.

[Guest Virginia Dawn]

:lurk5:

[Sharon H in IL]

You're more likely to meet the son or daughter of a plumber at an Ivy League school than at a Really Really Good University. Because if you are admitted you can attend without worrying about your parents' ability to pay the steep fees. Sure, lots of rich kids attend, but they sit next to the plumbers' kids in class. And they find out the plumbers' kids know a thing or two, make good points in class discussions, and can even make good friends.

 

At a Really Really Good University law school, I found out I pitied a lot of my rich classmates. Their parents were divorced in ugly circumstances, and the kids were not a priority in their parents' lives. The grass isn't always greener. And the rich kids knew it.

 

But intellectually we were on a level playing field. What you do with it is up to you.

[PG4WOODS]

par. 7 "Elite institutions are supposed to provide a humanistic education, but the first principle of humanism is Terence’s: "nothing human is alien to me." The first disadvantage of an elite education is how very much of the human it alienates you from."

 

This is his problem,"humanism"

 

Define:

4.

Philosophy. a variety of ethical theory and practice that emphasizes reason, scientific inquiry, and human fulfillment in the natural world and often rejects the importance of belief in God.

 

http://www.dictionary.reference.com/search?q=humanism&r

 

*is the name given to the intellectual, literary, and scientific movement of the fourteenth to the sixteenth centuries, a movement which aimed at basing every branch of learning on the literature and culture of classical antiquity.

Believing that a classical training alone could form a perfect man, the Humanists so called themselves in opposition to the Scholastics, and adopted the term humaniora (the humanities) as signifying the scholarship of the ancients.

 

*http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id also, for more history of humanism movement

 

 

Key word: "alone " a great education without God.

 

The very reason I am homeschooling. The last thing my Father said before his death "You have to know what you believe in......." Thank You, Daddy.

On this Forum you have two types of Classical education; Humanism and Christian Classical.

Humanities; in , in itself is a grave mistake. This is not my opinion....." it is."

 

For those of you who , for the lack of a better word, "feel",(mothers intuition) something is missing though you are doing everything ....well.... I know through my very own experience.

 

 

 

The Four Science:

 

The Natural Sciences

The Humane Sciences

The Philosophical Sciences

The Theological Sciences

 

link: http://www.circeinstitute.org/definitions%202.shtml

Great Read: http://www.circeinstitute.org/d_principles.shtml

[Mama Lynx]

:lurk5:

 

Is there an icon for "tying my hands down so that I don't reply before I've counted to fifty million"?

 

Oooh, I want to clarify for those using hybrid view. Virginia Dawn's "lurk" icon was under Myrtle. My response, above refers to PG4WOODS' post. I think Myrtle's post rocks, and I applaud it.

[chiguirre]

The American Scholar is the Phi Beta Kappa magazine. That's interesting because that means its audience is the best students from all kinds of schools. Relatively few Ivy Leaguers are PBK, and most PBK actually go to public universities and less prestigious private schools. Trashing the Ivies might play very well to that audience, IMHO.

 

I went to Penn and, honestly, I think I can chit-chat effectively with a plumber. At least, my plumbers have always come quickly, fixed my problem and treated me politely so I haven't ticked them off.

 

It's true that the Ivies bill themselves as the elite. OTOH, most of their students aren't legacies, aren't rich and aren't that full of themselves. Like students everywhere, you have to do your laundry, cook some meals and learn to take care of yourself without your parents. You have to learn to take public transportation, shop at an underwhelming supermarket and live on a tight budget. In my personal experience the practical aspects of life served to underline our ordinariness. It's hard to be too stuck on yourself when you've just burnt the mac and cheese, your socks are pink (laundry misfortune) and you've got a waterbug in the bathroom. Ah, those halcyon college days!

[LizzyBee]

You're more likely to meet the son or daughter of a plumber at an Ivy League school than at a Really Really Good University. Because if you are admitted you can attend without worrying about your parents' ability to pay the steep fees. Sure, lots of rich kids attend, but they sit next to the plumbers' kids in class. And they find out the plumbers' kids know a thing or two, make good points in class discussions, and can even make good friends.

 

Some years back, I read a book that listed the most common occupations of American millionaires. Plumbers were at or near the top of the list. Apparently, quite a few of them can and do pay their own way. :)

[HollyinNNV]

At a Really Really Good University law school, I found out I pitied a lot of my rich classmates. Their parents were divorced in ugly circumstances, and the kids were not a priority in their parents' lives. The grass isn't always greener. And the rich kids knew it.

 

I know that you stated that rich parents divorced in ugly circumstances-not more often, but it made me think. Your statement made me wonder if the "rich" divorce more frequently than the poor. I've been looking on the internet. Course all the good studies just show you the abstract and then expect you to pay for the article.:glare: All I could find was this:

 

People with economic disadvantages are just as likely to marry as other people, but their marriages are substantially more unstable. There is a martial quality gap between low-income and other couples but it is not as large as might be expected based on the differences in marital disruption rates. "Married and Poor: Basic Characteristics of Economically Disadvantaged Couples in the US" by David Fein. http://www.mdrc.org/publications/393/workpaper.html. Cited in a posting on Smart Marriages Listserv Oct 8, 2004. (Smart Marriages Listserv Oct 8, 2004)

[Haiku]

What I found most interesting (and typical, imo) about that article is that the author blamed his education for what are actually personal issues: snobbery, social ineptitude, and ignorance.

 

Tara

[Heather in the Kootenays]

What I found most interesting (and typical, imo) about that article is that the author blamed his education for what are actually personal issues: snobbery, social ineptitude, and ignorance.

 

Tara

 

I haven't had time to read the article and I will because it looks interesting. However, I was totally put off by the first paragraph. I have a pretty good education by almost all standards and can converse with people from several other countries in their own languages. However it hasn't stopped me from being able to converse with plumbers, lawyers, stable hands, professors, ditchdiggers, politicians - you name it.

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

What I found most interesting (and typical, imo) about that article is that the author blamed his education for what are actually personal issues: snobbery, social ineptitude, and ignorance.

 

Tara

 

:iagree:

 

It seems the trend these days is to bash those who have excelled academically or in their white collar careers.

 

Funny how he blames his personal discomfort in talking to his plumber (who he clearly perceives as someone less educated/knowledgeable/intellectual/interesting than himself) on his attendance at an Ivy League university rather than on his own personality. I guess these days we are no longer responsible for our personal flaws-if we don't blame our parents then we can blame the institutions that educated us or to which we belong.

[LNC]

I didn't read the article, but I think elitism is rampant in ivy league institutions. My identical twin took a different path than I did post 4 year university. She got a masters & doctorate at Princeton and a law degree at Yale. I got married a month after graduation and soon had children (4 total) and have homeschooled them always.

 

I did go to her orientation with her at Princeton and moved her in. I'll never forget the speaker telling them they were among .1% of all the intellect in the world. I was like - what on earth?????

 

She has always had friends and significant others that were duly "accomplished" - which means the right degrees from the right places followed by the right careers. The conversations they have and who they know are entertaining. She is a law professor at a prominent university. I love to listen to her stories. I love my sister! But, I don't want that for my children.

[Ashleen]

Who wrote this, Draco Malfoy? Couldn't talk to the plumber? Why is that? Because he thought he was inherently a different kind of human than a plumber. What a moron.

 

This is reminds me of a book I read a few years ago by Lauren Winner called Girl Meets God. She said one of her ex-boyfriend's mothers complained that she was a snob because all she wanted to talk to her about was recipes. She said she didn't see what the problem was: the woman was a housewife and a good cook, so what else was there to talk about with her? She just didn't get that a SAHM might have something to talk about with a college student. I wanted to hunt her down and slap her (other than that, I liked the book ;)).