TOG'rs.... please help, need advice

[michaeljenn]

We just strated TOG today and my children are complaining that:

1. there is too much to read

2. the reading is hard

3. there are soooo many questions to answer

 

This is mainly coming from my 9 and 12yo... my 13yo is really fine, although he is a bit overwhelmed by all the reading.

 

My 9yo is in UG and my 12 and 13 are in D.

 

I have always read aloud to them for history in the past, and I have not really required that much reading because I always read it to them as a family. They usually read a chapter or two out of their current chapter book a day, and that was it. I see now what a mistake this was. I am having a hard time discerning if they are *lazy, or are *really having trouble. My 12yo tends to get very flustered very easily... no matter how easy the concept, so this may be the issue too!

 

Does TOG get better, or easier? Has anyone elses children had a hard time adjusting?

 

Oh, I am having my UG read everything in the the primary resources. My D are also reading everything in the primary resources too.

 

SIGH... I feel like I have failed my kiddo's in a way by reading everything, meaning history and science aloud to them, and then not requiring much reading from them.

 

Advice?

[momofkhm]

so they will complain. There is a 4 week fog for us teachers, why not a 4 week adjustment for the kid too? If you've always read to them, then I think that is your issue. If the 12 yo wants everything to come easy, I think that is an issue as well.

 

I used TOG yr 1 last year with a LG, UG and D. TOG is a huge step in terms of reading from most other programs. I'm waiting for complaints when we start next week as my LG and UG students are both moving up.

 

Another thing is how long are you giving them to read the selections? Between Core and In depth readings, that's about 100 pages. 20 pages a day would do it. Or if you are having your older 2 share books, then they need to read faster of course. (Mine are going to share, This could get interesting!)

 

I'd say give them time to adjust to reading themselves. You may need to sit and read with them sometimes, but let them take it on themselves.

[Lisawa]

Originally Posted by 4pillars

We just strated TOG today and my children are complaining that:

1. there is too much to read

2. the reading is hard

3. there are soooo many questions to answer

This is mainly coming from my 9 and 12yo... my 13yo is really fine, although he is a bit overwhelmed by all the reading.

My 9yo is in UG and my 12 and 13 are in D.

I have always read aloud to them for history in the past, and I have not really required that much reading because I always read it to them as a family. They usually read a chapter or two out of their current chapter book a day, and that was it. I see now what a mistake this was. I am having a hard time discerning if they are *lazy, or are *really having trouble. My 12yo tends to get very flustered very easily... no matter how easy the concept, so this may be the issue too!

Does TOG get better, or easier? Has anyone elses children had a hard time adjusting?

Oh, I am having my UG read everything in the the primary resources. My D are also reading everything in the primary resources too.

SIGH... I feel like I have failed my kiddo's in a way by reading everything, meaning history and science aloud to them, and then not requiring much reading from them.

Advice?

 

 

Hmm.. its hard for me to say because I don't know what you are expecting from them... if they are reading a chapter or 2 a day.... that's not a lot for a 12 year old.... but then what is he/she reading??

 

I would think its about adjustment if they are not used to reading independently.... and this is going to take time. You will have to decide if its laziness, or to hard..... if its laziness it will need to be worked on and it takes time... if its to hard... pull back a little so they can adjust.

 

My kids read the saps and have them close but they don't fill them in until they have finished most of the reading assignments. If after they have read all reading assignments and they still cant find or didn't read the answer.... the Internet is great for research..... this is also a skill that needs to be taught.... and my 11 year old can google and use the Tapestry of grace website better than I can! lol

 

The questions are not that bad... if they finish the reading.... sometime they cant answer them.... or cant find an answer.... but make them try to answer.... then they can fill in the rest as you discuss them in the discussion time.... that is a great time for you to train them and help pull information out of them.... lead them to the answer....does that make sense.... help spark that memory of what they read....

 

I also want to say... because this is your first year w/ TOG and you are probably on week 1 of year 2.... its review and if you didn't do year 1 last year... don't stress..... if you are doing the supplement "why study History" again a great time for discussion..... remember.. don't panic... its your first day.... TOG is a unit study approach so if you are not used to that either... well its going to take time to adjust..... year 2 is one of the hardest years for some to start because it moves so incredibly fast and if you begin to feel overwhelmed slow down.... its your home school.... just cause it says 36 weeks doesn't mean you have to take 36 weeks.... I will have gone through all 4 years of TOG in 7 years.... We did use TOG 2 twice so actually all 4 concurrent years in 6. I'm very proud of the work we are accomplishing no matter how slow or fast we go.... I cant believe how much I have learned and am still learning.....same with them.... its a marathon not a sprint for us.... I want them to learn.... not learn to rush and miss the big picture....

 

With any curriculum... remember.... its curriculum.... listen to your kids and watch what they can handle.... but you are driving and they need to learn to do their part... if you want... choose a spine to read aloud and then choose something for them to read on their own. I still read aloud to my kids.... my girls especially love it and we all still snuggle on the couch... they are 16 and almost 12.... or let them read the spine and you read aloud an in depth option.... sky is the limit here...

 

You are using a curriculum that the mom leads but the kids have to also find their way..... keep on swimming.. keep on swimming.... it does get better... if you ever have a question.... pm me we can email.... I would love to talk....

 

Praying for you....

[lori in tx]

Jennifer,

Let me tell you what we do, please let me preface this by saying I have 2 LD sons that have mild LD and we are using the classic version. My oldest who is going into 9th is still using D level, their R level is very hard in fact a lot of their reading is challenging so you might want to make sure they are ready to move up.

 

Secondly, we do all the history readings and then with literature I chose 3-4 book each unit I want them to read. Most of the time it is 3 occassionally it has only been 2 . We were going through books so quickly, and she was keeping up that but she was not enjoying. My boys I normally do 3, no more than 3 per unit.

 

Are you doing TOG full blown, everything? all the assignment, geography, vocabulary ? You might back off and just assign the readings and maybe some map work, then next week add the questions. Slowly adding things in?

Since it is your first year, and it is probably a different way for you and your kids to learn it will take adjustment. Eventually you will confident and your will be able to just delete things that you know your kids will hate, not get anything out of, or you will hate. :) Hang in there it will be fine and remember you can delete or add anything you want it is your TOOL to use.

hth

lori

[mamato4]

I also thought I made a mistake going with TOG but I hung in there since I already had invested so much $ in it.

 

Here are some things that I did:

1. I had originally put my older 2 in D level and they really struggled with the amount of reading (and my dc read a lot!) I switched them to the UG level reading for the main history book but I still made them answer the Accountability questions.

 

2. Janice in NJ gave me this great advice: when they are reading their book, have them sit at the table with their feet on the floor. When slouched on the sofa, their reading is more of a passive type of reading. Have them read their AQs before they start reading their book. Then they have an idea which topics they should focus on. Have them hold their pencils and write their answers. I had to sit with them for many a day until they got the hang of actively reading and finding the answers. In essence, I was teaching them note-taking which is skill they'll need as they get older. (By the way, I think I still have to do this with them again when we start in August with Yr2. It's an ongoing learning process for them and an exercise in patience for me!)

 

3. Maybe for now, just have the your 12 yo answer the AQs and throw in the TQs during discussion time. When he gets more comfortable with TOG, then add the TQs to his work.

 

4. I only have them read the Core History books. I totally ignored the in-depth books. There is a week or two in Yr 1 for D level that has them reading A LOT of the Bible. I substituted the UG Bible reading for that week/s instead.

 

5. Some weeks, I picked and choosed which AQs they had to answer. I thought some of the questions would just frustrate them. I'd rather have them learn a little bit less but still see learning as something not to be dreaded.

 

6. Another Janice in NJ advice: Look at TOG as a menu of things you can do. You DO NOT have to do everything. Just as you wouldn't order and eat everything on a restaurant menu, it's also humanly impossible (to me) to do everything in the primary resource page of any TOG week.

 

Discerning between laziness and true inability due to age is difficult. That's why I was willing to spend so much time to modify their work assignment. Then it was much easier for me to see if they are just being lazy, they truly don't understand, or if they need more challenge.

 

Hang in there. You just started and all of you are acclimating yourselves to something new. Praying for you and your dc....

 

God Bless,

Anna

[Melissa in CA]

First of all I would make sure the reading isn't actually too hard for them. It is possible that your 12 yo may need to start out in the UG level history first and then, as your year progresses and the 'fog' lifts, reevaluate. Your 9 yo may need you to help in some of the reading at first. As long as you are working toward independence...I see no reason why you cannot help a bit until they are comfortable with the curriculum and work load. I know my son would not have been able to handle the reading load of our Y1 UG history when he was 9 yo. I would have had to start off slowly, maybe reading one of the history books aloud. Some of the wording in the Y1 UG level Usborne book may have been difficult for him at that age (I can only compare our Y1; I am not sure what you are using for Y2 History). I would just be sure you have them in the right levels is all. You can ALWAYS move up or down a level at any time.

 

Also, are you giving them all of the questions to answer? In writing? My son would fuss quite a bit if I gave him all the thinking and discussion questions to complete. I am beginning our year by only assigning the questions I think are most important to our learning objective. As our year progresses I will add to or take away as needed. Plus, I know that I can always bring up any questions not assigned and talk about them with him during our discussion time should I choose too.

 

Try not to let the curriculum enslave you. Pick and choose. Start slow and add to it as maturity develops.

 

As a side...I remember my older boys always complaining when I gave them a heavy workload. :tongue_smilie: Some kids just plain don't like to work hard, and they really don't like a lot of reading where they have to actually comprehend and answer questions! Especially boys; at least MY boys. You should have seen the fit they had when I handed them their first Sonlight Core and they saw all the books they were required to read. in. a. year. :lol: I thought they were going to have heart attacks. :D Especially since the curriclum we had come from didn't require ANY reading of whole books. It was quite a shock indeed. ;)

[Melissa in CA]

I also thought I made a mistake going with TOG but I hung in there since I already had invested so much $ in it.

 

Here are some things that I did:

1. I had originally put my older 2 in D level and they really struggled with the amount of reading (and my dc read a lot!) I switched them to the UG level reading for the main history book but I still made them answer the Accountability questions.

 

2. Janice in NJ gave me this great advice: when they are reading their book, have them sit at the table with their feet on the floor. When slouched on the sofa, their reading is more of a passive type of reading. Have them read their AQs before they start reading their book. Then they have an idea which topics they should focus on. Have them hold their pencils and write their answers. I had to sit with them for many a day until they got the hang of actively reading and finding the answers. In essence, I was teaching them note-taking which is skill they'll need as they get older. (By the way, I think I still have to do this with them again when we start in August with Yr2. It's an ongoing learning process for them and an exercise in patience for me!)

 

3. Maybe for now, just have the your 12 yo answer the AQs and throw in the TQs during discussion time. When he gets more comfortable with TOG, then add the TQs to his work.

 

4. I only have them read the Core History books. I totally ignored the in-depth books. There is a week or two in Yr 1 for D level that has them reading A LOT of the Bible. I substituted the UG Bible reading for that week/s instead.

 

5. Some weeks, I picked and choosed which AQs they had to answer. I thought some of the questions would just frustrate them. I'd rather have them learn a little bit less but still see learning as something not to be dreaded.

 

6. Another Janice in NJ advice: Look at TOG as a menu of things you can do. You DO NOT have to do everything. Just as you wouldn't order and eat everything on a restaurant menu, it's also humanly impossible (to me) to do everything in the primary resource page of any TOG week.

 

Discerning between laziness and true inability due to age is difficult. That's why I was willing to spend so much time to modify their work assignment. Then it was much easier for me to see if they are just being lazy, they truly don't understand, or if they need more challenge.

 

Hang in there. You just started and all of you are acclimating yourselves to something new. Praying for you and your dc....

 

God Bless,

Anna

 

Great advice Anna! You and I must have been replying at the same time...had I read yours first I would have just said: :iagree::iagree::iagree: and saved myself some time! :lol:

[Karenciavo]

Does TOG get better, or easier? Has anyone elses children had a hard time adjusting?

 

Oh, I am having my UG read everything in the the primary resources. My D are also reading everything in the primary resources too.

 

SIGH... I feel like I have failed my kiddo's in a way by reading everything, meaning history and science aloud to them, and then not requiring much reading from them.

 

Advice?

 

My dc began TOG 5 years ago coming out of a traditional school setting. They were not used to the amount of reading scheduled in TOG and balked. I eased them into it, reading some aloud and gradually stretching them. This has worked well for us and now they read all that is scheduled on their own.

 

Karen

[michaeljenn]

I have received some really great advice!

 

I am having them do all the AC in writing because I feel like we have lacked in this area. For example, when we did history before with Mystery of History, I would read and then ask for a narration and then I would have to prod a bit to get a good answer. I am just ready to take them off the bottle, so to speak.

 

My 12dd did go and read more of her book and it actually got better. I think that I will just allow 2 full weeks for the first few weeks of TOG to really get a good grip on it.

 

Also, I do have another question... How in the world do you fit in everything else??? We did a lesson in math(saxon), a lesson in Rod and Staff English, Spelling work and then history. We started around 9:30 and stopped at 2:00 with a lunch thrown in. We will begin Latiana Christiana and Apologia General and Physical science soon too. I had wanted to begin some type of critical thinking as well, but am wondering where to fit it in!

 

Thanks again everyone!;)

[mamato4]

This has happened to me a few times already where I type in a reply and when I post it, I see something similar posted by someone else the same time I was posting!

 

God Bless,

Anna

[shea]

The more experienced TOGGERS have given you great counsel. As a less experienced one, I just wanted to give you encouragement to continue. We used TOG for the first time last year coming from a traditional, boxed curriculum (well, dvd curriculum we used our first year hsing). My kids always loved books, until the length of the dvd curriculum drained this love out of them. It would take so long to finish a school day, that they wouldn't even want to read before bed time anymore (which had been one of our favorite things to do). I knew I had to change things, and this is where TOG came into the picture.

My kids balked at the reading, too, in the beginning. What we started to do was to read some of the assignments at night before bed. My UG son who turned 10 back in January, reads his literature during the school day by himself, then we read his core and in depth together at bedtime .We take turns reading paragraphs, or sometimes pages, aloud. This way I can check for comprehension and pronunciation. We stop and discuss anything that really interests him. Doing it this way, he would forget that he was actually doing school work and just enjoyed the books. My D level daughter reads the core and in depth readings during school time, or should I say the daytime, but she saves the literature to read before bedtime. In the beginning she complained about the amount of reading, but she was soon won over, too. She even started lining up all the books she had finished reading on her bookshelf so she could have a visual of all she had accomplished. :D Wow! This was a child whose favorite books before TOG were the Goosebumps books.

So, hang in there. Make it work for you. As we say at our house, "Whatever works!" TOG is so worth it.

 

By the way, last year my daughter's reading comprehension score for her Stanford achievement test was 7.4 at the end of sixth grade. This year, after using TOG , her reading comprehension score at the end of seventh grade was 10.7 with a total reading score of 10.9. Yeah, sooo worth it.

 

Sue

[michaeljenn]

Janice in NJ gave me this great advice: when they are reading their book, have them sit at the table with their feet on the floor. When slouched on the sofa, their reading is more of a passive type of reading. Have them read their AQs before they start reading their book. Then they have an idea which topics they should focus on. Have them hold their pencils and write their answers. I had to sit with them for many a day until they got the hang of actively reading and finding the answers. In essence, I was teaching them note-taking which is skill they'll need as they get older. (By the way, I think I still have to do this with them again when we start in August with Yr2. It's an ongoing learning process for them and an exercise in patience for me!)

 

This is really great advice. My children tend to read in a tree house, lounged on a couch or bed, so maybe I should try this.

 

Sue... great testimony. I plan to keep doing TOG. I have way too much $ invested in it. So far, they enjoy the books too, which is good. Oh, and they do go to bed reading books of their choosing as well. I am going to really try and keep their TOG reading during school, so they still have time to read novels of their choosing at night. I am, however, going to make them stop and read for at least and hour or so on Sat. and Sun. too. I think this will help them get through the assignments quicker.

 

Thanks again for all the kind and wonderful advice. I am really thankful and very blessed to have this board to help me on my homeschool journey!

[siloam]

I have received some really great advice!

 

I am having them do all the AC in writing because I feel like we have lacked in this area. For example, when we did history before with Mystery of History, I would read and then ask for a narration and then I would have to prod a bit to get a good answer. I am just ready to take them off the bottle, so to speak.

 

My 12dd did go and read more of her book and it actually got better. I think that I will just allow 2 full weeks for the first few weeks of TOG to really get a good grip on it.

 

Also, I do have another question... How in the world do you fit in everything else??? We did a lesson in math(saxon), a lesson in Rod and Staff English, Spelling work and then history. We started around 9:30 and stopped at 2:00 with a lunch thrown in. We will begin Latiana Christiana and Apologia General and Physical science soon too. I had wanted to begin some type of critical thinking as well, but am wondering where to fit it in!

 

Thanks again everyone!;)

 

To be honest here we cover history last, because as much as I love TOG it is one of the least important subjects. First we do math, English, Lain, spelling, and Science. Then we fit in as much TOG as we can, and if it takes longer than a week, well it just takes longer.

 

If it makes you feel better I still read aloud most the history. My oldest reads the UG Lit and some of the in-depth books on her own. When we come back around to year 1 next year (her 6th grade year and she will be 11/12 that year) I plan on having her read the core independently, but I will keep her in UG. For how long will depend largely on how well she does with the reading and discussions. Most likely I won't move her into D all at once, but will do it in pieces (Lit, Core, in-depth), over several years if necessary.

 

Heather (who is closer to doing a 6 year cycle than a 4, but at least we get there. :D )