Narration...I am going to pull all of my hair out!!!

[melissel]

My patience with this is so low I may start crying. We're using WWE3, and we're about 3/4 through. For the first half of the book, DD9's narrations were great--sometimes she needed some help, but mostly she didn't, and she was whipping out great narrations almost without pause. Then, somewhere around lesson 18, she suddenly lost all ability to narrate these passages. She can't see the important elements--heck, she can barely remember the passage she's just read.

 

Getting narrations out of her has always been like pulling teeth. She hates narrating with a passion. But we keep plugging on. Every week I keep thinking we're going to get our groove back, and every week, I want to just throw the book out because we're both so frustrated.

 

Can I expect her to someday reach a point where these come easily? Is there some way I can help her understand this process without having to talk her through each and every sentence? Is there some chance, even a very teeny one, that if I just quit making her narrate, she'll still end up a well-educated, strong writer?

 

:banghead: Thanks for listening.

[Mom0012]

My patience with this is so low I may start crying. We're using WWE3, and we're about 3/4 through. For the first half of the book, DD9's narrations were great--sometimes she needed some help, but mostly she didn't, and she was whipping out great narrations almost without pause. Then, somewhere around lesson 18, she suddenly lost all ability to narrate these passages. She can't see the important elements--heck, she can barely remember the passage she's just read.

 

Getting narrations out of her has always been like pulling teeth. She hates narrating with a passion. But we keep plugging on. Every week I keep thinking we're going to get our groove back, and every week, I want to just throw the book out because we're both so frustrated.

 

Can I expect her to someday reach a point where these come easily? Is there some way I can help her understand this process without having to talk her through each and every sentence? Is there some chance, even a very teeny one, that if I just quit making her narrate, she'll still end up a well-educated, strong writer?

 

:banghead: Thanks for listening.

 

I would drop it until the fall and then try to pick it back up again. We hit a point of frustration in WWE 3 and I switched over to Writing Tales. After we finished Writing Tales 1, we went back and completed WWE 3 without any trouble at all. Now we're working on Writing Tales 2 (which my daughter loves) and then she'll do IEW for a year before moving onto WWS. We're likely either completely skipping WWE 4 or I'll borrow The Complete Writer from the library and do the sample lessons that are in there as a refresher (if I feel she needs it) before WWS.

 

Lisa

[Heidi]

I would drop WWE either for a while, or forever. WWE killed my dd8's ability to narrate well.

 

Now, there is a difference between narrating (telling the story back) and summarizing (which is the skill WWE is asking for). I do not understand why WWE calls summarizing "narrating". It is not the same.

 

My dd8 used to give wonderful, detailed, enthusiastic narrations of everything we read. Then this year I decided to put her in WWE2. She learned to par down her narrations into summaries of one to two sentences. After a little over half-way through the book I realized that summaries are not what I want to teach my kids at this age. So we went back to narrations from our literature and she can't do it anymore. She summarizes! Ugh! It's coming back though.

 

For example, a narration from dd8 of Going on a Bear Hunt would look like:

 

Well first they went through the grass and went swishy-swashy. And then they came to a deep, cold river and splashed across. Then they got all dirty in the sticky mud and went squelch squerch! And the dog got so muddy, it was funny. ...

... they tip-toed into the cave... and there was... THE BEAR! Quick! They ran back through the cave! Back throught the snowstorm! Back through the forest! (etc.)

 

A WWE "narration" (summary) would look like this:

They walked through the grass, the river, the mud, the forest, a snowstorm, and then into a cave where they saw a bear. They screamed and ran all the way back home and got in bed.

 

 

I think summaries are important, but not until later. I really want my daughter to develop her writer's voice first. I think true narrations make great writers; summaries, not so much. But what do I know. I'm not the one with the degree or experience. Just my instinct.

[mom@shiloh]

I agree with pp that a break is a good idea. Something we've used is having them record their narrations. I got this idea from someone else who has several children and can't always listen when the kids are ready. I was looking around for a cheap voice recorder when my ds pointed out that we have one on our computer. We've tried this and I like it. They can listen to their narrations and try again if they don't like what they hear. I think this will help them improve because they can hear that they're saying um, um, um.... etc. I wouldn't want to do this every time because I like the interpersonal aspects of narration, but maybe your dd would like it for a bit?

[famof6]

We started an assignment a few years ago that has worked wonders for my daughters writing. Every time she reads a story she has to write "think notes" about what she read. She writes one sentence for every Grade level. She is fifth grade this year, so every day she writes five sentences about what she read. It can be a summary, an idea or what she thinks about what she read. The first week we did think notes it took her forever with a lot of tears. But now, she whizzes through them and actually asks to write more sentences. They are all in a spiral notebook, so she can look back at all think notes she's written over the last two years. It's fun to see her improvement in both writing and penmanship.

[NotSoObvious]

FWIW, every reading conference I've attended talks about the ability to summarize as the most critical factor for successful reading and comprehension.

So, it is extremely important. However (!), WWE 3 has very challenging passages. It could just be that it's a bit too hard for your dd. I see WWE as more of the modeling component to summarizing, so I expect a lower level of independence/success than I do when they summarize their own reading. But the skills they take away from WWE are priceless, IMO- although, it did take me a while to get there. My dd is almost 10 and she'll still be in WWE 3 in the fall, while my other twin will move on to WWS. All kids are different, so slow down, give help, or take a break if needed!

 

I'm much less stressed about this program after hearing SWB talk.

[Crimson Wife]

Now, there is a difference between narrating (telling the story back) and summarizing (which is the skill WWE is asking for). I do not understand why WWE calls summarizing "narrating". It is not the same.

 

My DD has always been great at Charlotte Mason type narrations but struggles with the WWE/WWS type summary narrations. I let her do CM narrations in history, science, and literature and only make her do summary narrations in WWE/WWS. I feel that both types are valuable- the CM for helping with retention of material covered and WWE/WWS for learning how to write thesis statements.

[Heidi]

We started an assignment a few years ago that has worked wonders for my daughters writing. Every time she reads a story she has to write "think notes" about what she read. She writes one sentence for every Grade level. She is fifth grade this year, so every day she writes five sentences about what she read. It can be a summary, an idea or what she thinks about what she read. The first week we did think notes it took her forever with a lot of tears. But now, she whizzes through them and actually asks to write more sentences. They are all in a spiral notebook, so she can look back at all think notes she's written over the last two years. It's fun to see her improvement in both writing and penmanship.

 

I love this! What a great idea.

[Heidi]

My DD has always been great at Charlotte Mason type narrations but struggles with the WWE/WWS type summary narrations. I let her do CM narrations in history, science, and literature and only make her do summary narrations in WWE/WWS. I feel that both types are valuable- the CM for helping with retention of material covered and WWE/WWS for learning how to write thesis statements.

 

Wwe is excellent for expository writing, I agree. I just don't find value in it in elementary. Who knows, I maybe next year i'll change my mind. We will definitly be using wws when she is old enough.

[Hope in God]

FWIW, every reading conference I've attended talks about the ability to summarize as the most critical factor for successful reading and comprehension.

So, it is extremely important. However (!), WWE 3 has very challenging passages. It could just be that it's a bit too hard for your dd. I see WWE as more of the modeling component to summarizing, so I expect a lower level of independence/success than I do when they summarize their own reading. But the skills they take away from WWE are priceless, IMO- although, it did take me a while to get there. My dd is almost 10 and she'll still be in WWE 3 in the fall, while my other twin will move on to WWS. All kids are different, so slow down, give help, or take a break if needed!

 

I'm much less stressed about this program after hearing SWB talk.

 

I just don't understand the value in having children summarize things orally or on paper. Maybe this is because I have never encountered this school of thought until 3 years ago when we started SOTW. I went through my entire private school education without ever having to narrate and I think that if I would have had to do summaries it would have really killed the joy. Wait, I did have that one teacher in 6th grade that made us write a paraphrase of a passage every. single. class. I just thought it was because he didn't want to teach us anything and I dreaded that class. He didn't even teach us how to paraphrase something he just told us to do it.:glare:

 

In the Read Aloud Handbook it doesn't mention narrations anywhere either.

 

I just don't get it??:confused:

[Crimson Wife]

I just don't understand the value in having children summarize things orally or on paper. Maybe this is because I have never encountered this school of thought until 3 years ago when we started SOTW. I went through my entire private school education without ever having to narrate and I think that if I would have had to do summaries it would have really killed the joy. Wait, I did have that one teacher in 6th grade that made us write a paraphrase of a passage every. single. class. I just thought it was because he didn't want to teach us anything and I dreaded that class. He didn't even teach us how to paraphrase something he just told us to do it.:glare:

 

In the Read Aloud Handbook it doesn't mention narrations anywhere either.

 

I just don't get it??:confused:

 

But when you write a thesis statement for an essay, you don't cram every single detail into it, right? You just sum up the single most important point. That's the value of learning how to summarize.

 

Summarizing is hard for the way certain people think. My DD who struggles with summarizing has a tendency to miss the forest for the trees, as the saying goes. She gets so caught up in the details that she has a hard time seeing the "big picture". She grumbles about WWE/WWS, but I think it's good practice for her to work through those kind of summarizing exercises.