Thoughts on AoPS Prealgebra

[Diviya]

I apologize in advance - this is going to be long and wordy, but I've been wanting to get this out there, in the hopes that it might help other families in the same boat.

 

My older dd finished Singapore 6b just before she turned 8. We just did the workbooks; she flew through them. We spent 3rd grade flailing around. We tried parts of Keys to Algebra, Sinagapore New Math Counts, Russian Math. I looked at and eliminated Lial's BCM, Foerster's, Discovering Mathematics, Life of Fred. The problem wasn't that she didn't get the concepts; the problem was the texts were too overwhelming for her. In retrospect I realize that a page of 20-30 problems is not a big deal for most 12-13 year olds, but it's very intimidating for an 8 year old.

 

So, all along, I really wanted to use AoPS algebra, but I thought, she's not ready for it, and I'll only use it if she is "that" kind of math student. So beginning of this year (4th grade), we tried it. It was horrible. We didn't even make it through the first chapter. She was an algorithm girl. Give her an algorithm and she could do the problems all day long. But she couldn't apply them in other contexts.

 

In the meantime, AoPS came out with their Prealgebra book. I looked at it, liked it a lot, but thought, oh, she has already covered most of this material, and she is ready for Algebra. This would be a step down.

 

Then I had my moment of clarity. I realized that wanting to do algebra was kind of a pride thing. That was stupid. I'm sure I could have found an algebra program that would have worked for her. But I realized I didn't want to. I didnt want her to be a math machine. I wanted her to be a problem solver - to not be afraid to tackle problems she had no idea how to solve. So, I took a deep breath, and decided to do the AoPS Prealgebra with her.

 

It was hard. Really tough. That way of thinking was totally alien to her. She hated the discovery method. For the first few chapters, we went through the explanations together. I held her hand through many of the exercises and often for problems in the review sections. She cried more than once a session. We'd do 2 or 3 pages in a sitting. Slowly, things started to improve. She started to figure out how to apply things she had learned before to solve unfamiliar problems. She'd cry only once a session, then only once every few days.

 

Then it started to get interesting. She really got into it. She picked up speed. She really wrestled with the problems. She would voluntarily start with math, and spend up to three hours on it. Without complaint! No crying! She finished the book in April and started the Algebra book the same day. She just finished the third chapter yesterday.

 

She is a completely different person than she was before. She enjoys math, understands it in a new way, likes the discovery method, and will willingly devote hours to it. I feel like this is the best decision I've made since deciding to homeschool them.

 

Personally, I just love the AoPS approach. I wish these books had been around when I was a math student. There is so much love of and joy in math that just permeates the books. I often find myself working problems alongside her rather than looking up the solutions. And they are funny! Where else could you find a problem that says "the men in the Not Much Left Club counted up the hairs on their heads and put the numbers on a stem and leaf plot. Find the mean, median and mode. If I, with my full head of hair, join the club, which number will be most affected?". Also, my younger daughter started doing Beast at the same time, and I could see the progression. Her book asked her to find the pattern for polygons (I can't remember exactly what it was). The Prealgebra book has them finding the pattern and then figuring out the formula.

 

Anyway, I guess all this to say that I think AoPS is worth a shot for almost any bright kid. And if it is rough going at first, don't be discouraged. It says right at the front that the discovery method doesn't work for all kids and it's okay to present the material to them instead. You can tweak it!

 

And of course, this is not to say that this is the only way or the right way. You have to pick what works for you.

 

Would love to hear any thoughts and happy to answer any questions.

[Beth in SW WA]

:party: Thanks for sharing!! Almost makes me want to bust out my AoPS prealg text and give it another whirl with dd9. :)

[Halcyon]

This is great to hear. We will be starting Aops Pre-A with my 9 year old in September and i cant wait!

[wapiti]

I've been waiting for someone to create an AOPS Prealgebra review thread :D.

 

I agree with just about every single word that Diviya wrote. My dd seemed to have much more trouble in the first half of the book, particularly chapters 2 (exponents), 5 (equations) and maybe 7 (ratios; having done ratios in MM6 helped), but even on other lessons that I'd have thought would be easy for her. We switched to Dolciani mid-way through ch 5 for a week, but we couldn't stay away. We switched back. We tweaked: instead of having her complete the lesson problems independently on paper, we did them together on the white board (you know, where you start to say the problem and your child grabs the dry erase marker, sternly warning you not to say anything more; "I want to do it myself!!" :lol:). We put aside the challenge problems for later, hoping just to get through the regular ones. Once we finally got passed percents (helllo, they seemed so easy for her in MM, what happened? hormones or something?), and we got into the geometry, she cruised through the rest of the book. She was shockingly good at the Counting chapter, figuring out answers in her head ("mommy, this is eeeasy"), though I'm annoyed that she didn't write enough down during that chapter to suit me (I thought we were over the whole not-writing-things-down issue). I'm glad I had the solutions manual, because my brain is old and tired.

 

She finished the last chapter yesterday, and today we started the challenge problems from earlier in the book as her review. I selected some from chapter 2. At first, she couldn't remember what a negative exponent was, but that's the very reason we were reviewing, after all ("what? why are you looking at me like that, mommy?" :banghead:). Once she got over that and actually turned on her brain, she did fine with the challenge problems. She's really grown a lot over the past year in terms of her ability to handle challenging problems (though that's not to say that there isn't a lot more room for growth ahead ;)). I also found that I really have to resist helping her at this point - I have to keep reiterating that she can do this, and I have to make her do it by herself. Sometimes she just needs a little confidence boost by doing things herself, and my hand-holding is often the opposite of the approach that I should take - it calls for some delicate judgment.

 

Dd started the Prealgebra 2 class with RR in April. She loves it, and it's a great way to review. I also like the fact that she has to explain an answer to a very hard problem in words once per week, because there's a lot of training that she could use in that area (though one of the problems was a bit too hard for her). I wish I had had her take the first class, though maybe she wouldn't have been as ready and confident. The class will finish up in July.

 

I'll probably have more to say at another time - busy day - but I've been wanting to discuss the Prealgebra book from a year-end perspective. My ds9 will be starting it over the summer. He'll be a year younger than dd was when she started (he's going into fourth) but he's a very different student from her. Much more intuitive. The writing part will be hard for him. I'm also not sure whether to start on it with his twin brother (who is equally capable, if less enthusiastic due to perfectionism issues). They both attend school, and the one will be allowed to have the Prealgebra book as his math curriculum there. I'll probably sign him up for the class once he gets a few chapters done, maybe the first half, and then he can do the first class while he works through the second half of the book or something.

 

No doubt, I've got to find a way for this book to be a family requirement. It has changed the way I see math. (Dh says I just wasn't paying attention in school, and he's right, I was a daydreamer :tongue_smilie:. High school would have been so much easier if I had paid attention in prealgebra, or if I had had THIS book.)

[Diviya]

I've been waiting for someone to create an AOPS Prealgebra review thread :D.

 

I also found that I really have to resist helping her at this point - I have to keep reiterating that she can do this, and I have to make her do it by herself. Sometimes she just needs a little confidence boost by doing things herself, and my hand-holding is often the opposite of the approach that I should take - it calls for some delicate judgment.

 

 

This, yes. I'm guilty of this too. I find I sometimes have to literally sit on my hands and close my lips tightly to avoid saying anything :D. It's worth it though, when she figures it out on her own. I wish I were better at it.

 

Exponents and percents were hard here too. It's all a blur now though, I wish I had paid more attention to which were particularly hard or easy. I found Singapore gave her a great background for the rate problems, for example.

 

Thanks for your thoughts! Nice to know we aren't alone. I'm trying to decide if I should sign her up for the algebra online class. I considered doing the one over the summer, but decided that would be too mean...

 

It would be mean, wouldn't it? :tongue_smilie:

[wapiti]

I'm trying to decide if I should sign her up for the algebra online class. I considered doing the one over the summer, but decided that would be too mean...

 

My plan is as follows: following a placement test, dd will hopefully be taking algebra at school (with a boring text). After that, I'd like her to work through the algebra book, and at some point after that, I'll have her take the on-line class. Who knows, maybe I'll even have her take the class much later.

 

The on-line alg 1 class is so fast-paced that I don't think it makes sense to start until the student has already done a good deal of the alg 1 portion of the Intro to Algebra book. For example, if it would take the student, say a 6th or 7th grader, a year to do the alg 1 portion of the book (only the first 14 chapters or so?), then I'd consider starting the class once the student was halfway through that portion, ultimately finishing the alg 1 portion of the book and the class around the same time. Or, finishing the alg 1 portion of the book first, before doing the on-line class, using the class as a review.

Edited May 9, 2012 by wapiti

[Donna]

I had started AoPS with my dd9 back in the fall but she just hated it and we were not getting anywhere. She started saying she hated math and did not think she was good at math anymore. We hadn't even made it through the first chapter. I posted on here about our problems and switched back to Saxon which was working just fine for us before I heard about AoPS PreAlg. I nearly sold the book but I am glad I didn't.

 

Dd and I worked through Saxon 87 then I got out AoPS PreAlgebra again last week willing to try it again even though it seemed silly to do another PreAlg program. I really want to give her another way to look at math. It is already going much better this time around. We haven't gotten very far but she is more confident in her ability to manipulate numbers and seems to be "getting it." Maybe it was that extra time and math practice or maybe she is a little more mature, I don't know but I am glad I didn't sell my program. :001_smile:

[crazyforlatin]

I want AOPS Pre-algebra! Now! Um, that's about the only pre-algebra book that I don't have.

 

Diviya, I love that you want your child to be a problem-solver. My DD is good at math, but I really think she is not an AOPS-type of girl. I never see her struggling over a problem. She just gives up. :lol::glare: I would like to try it with her but nervous about what we will face.

 

Your post is really encouraging and I hope more people will post their experiences with kids of a younger age who may not have been pegged as AOPS-material but who persevered and succeeded.

[SunnyDays]

Thanks for the great review!! I actually ordered AOPS Pre-Algebra... for myself, LOL!! My plan is to start going through it, familiarize *myself* with the style and see if it would be a good fit for DS. If it is... great, I'll be ahead of the game. If not, nothing lost... I think it'll give me a good review and deeper understanding, and that will help me teach DS no matter what curriculum we use.

 

So glad for all of you who share your experiences!! :)

[boltgirl]

Wow! Now I am excited for next year. I ordered AoPS for my DS10. It is completely different than what we are doing now, but I know that he needs to be challenged. I am ready to work through this together and watch him grow as a student.:D

[boscopup]

Great review! :D

 

We'll be trying it probably a year from now, and I have it already. I think the hardest part for him will be "explaining" things like why 2+3 is the same as 3+2. I have trouble putting things like that into words and just want to say, "Because it is!" I understand why, but explaining it is very difficult for me. DS1 is the same way when getting to that level of thinking. So I do have multiple books we can use for prealgebra (we'll pick one), in case he isn't ready for AoPS. Once he gets to the fun math, he might do better. I just see him looking at me funny when he sees the first section. :lol: We'll definitely have to do those explanations orally, as there is no way he'd write that stuff down.

[JeanM]

I also found that I really have to resist helping her at this point - I have to keep reiterating that she can do this, and I have to make her do it by herself. Sometimes she just needs a little confidence boost by doing things herself, and my hand-holding is often the opposite of the approach that I should take - it calls for some delicate judgment.

 

 

:iagree:

My ds says he doesn't like the book, and that he preferred Singapore math. He isn't very far into the book though (maybe chapter 3?), and I think he is starting to get the hang of it. DH, who is his primary teacher, has a very hard time not "teaching." I've repeatedly told DH that he has to let ds try by himself and struggle if it isn't easy. DH and ds both hate the struggling part. ds does really like it when he "sees" the answer to a hard problem though, and I think he's really learning a lot.

[matilda]

We had a slightly different experience. DD11 started AoPS in the fall and it was a disaster. There were tears most days and we quit after chapter 3. We switched to Lial's Pre-algebra in January, and it has gone much, much better and she will finish soon. After doing the Lial's chapter on exponents, we went back to AoPS and did their chapter on exponents so that we could try it out again. That time went better, but she still much preferred the Lial's and we have continued with that.

[Donna]

Great review! :D

 

We'll be trying it probably a year from now, and I have it already. I think the hardest part for him will be "explaining" things like why 2+3 is the same as 3+2. I have trouble putting things like that into words and just want to say, "Because it is!" I understand why, but explaining it is very difficult for me. DS1 is the same way when getting to that level of thinking. So I do have multiple books we can use for prealgebra (we'll pick one), in case he isn't ready for AoPS. Once he gets to the fun math, he might do better. I just see him looking at me funny when he sees the first section. :lol: We'll definitely have to do those explanations orally, as there is no way he'd write that stuff down.

 

There are free videos on the website to go with each lesson. My dd thinks the guy is goofy but funny and it makes her remember the information.