Trying again: Latin for 4th grade after Lively Latin BB1

[Sweet Home Alabama]

Please share ideas for Latin after using Lively Latin BB1 in 3rd grade. Ds is close to finishing this, but I've read enough reviews about LL2 that gives me doubts about using this.

 

I feel like we are in one of those inbetween stages where nothing quite fits... sort of frustrating. Ds loves Latin, and I want to preserve this love... not present him with something frustrating at this most impressionable age. kwim?

 

 

I know we could try:

 

 

• Reviewing BB1... Ds isn't thrilled with this; he wants new material
  
• Minimus/Secundus... expensive TM; not sure this would bridge the gap w/o the TM; would just reading the stories be enough???
  
• Start Latin Prep with the intention of completing it in 2 years
  
• LfC... I'm quite sure would bore ds completely
  
• Visual Latin
  
• ...Or press ahead and take a loonnngggg time to do LL2.
  

This ds has completed SSL, Getting Started with Latin and now LL1 (almost finished).

 

What am I looking for? He'll be a 9 year old 4th grader.

[Sweet Home Alabama]

I *just* found this link comparing LL2 with Latin Prep... this was very helpful.

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1910826&postcount=1

[mazakaal]

I think Latin Prep would be too difficult for a 4th grader. I used LL2 with my second ds and got about half-way through before he stalled out. It's not a bad program at all, just a lot more difficult than LL1, and I think ds just really needed a change. He's using Visual Latin now with Lingua Latina. He's a lot older than your ds, but I think that VL and LL (or just VL) could be used with a younger child at a slower pace. I've never used Minimus or LfC, so I can't comment on those.

[JudoMom]

My boys love Visual Latin. Right now they're doing Getting Started With Latin alongside it, but I plan to add Lingua Latina in the future (I think it's recommended to start around Lesson 17 of Visual Latin). This is my plan for the older 3. I've debated using Minimus instead of Lingua Latina for my ds9--we did part of Minimus last year and he really liked it.

[Sweet Home Alabama]

I think Latin Prep would be too difficult for a 4th grader. I used LL2 with my second ds and got about half-way through before he stalled out. It's not a bad program at all, just a lot more difficult than LL1, and I think ds just really needed a change. He's using Visual Latin now with Lingua Latina. He's a lot older than your ds, but I think that VL and LL (or just VL) could be used with a younger child at a slower pace. I've never used Minimus or LfC, so I can't comment on those.

 

 

LL is expensive; I would hate to get it only to become discouraged and quit. If you had it to do over again, would you go with LL2 or Visual Latin with Lingua Latina? (I've never looked at Lingua Latina...)

 

Please tell me how Lingua Latina works.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Sweet Home Alabama

[Sweet Home Alabama]

My boys love Visual Latin. Right now they're doing Getting Started With Latin alongside it, but I plan to add Lingua Latina in the future (I think it's recommended to start around Lesson 17 of Visual Latin). This is my plan for the older 3. I've debated using Minimus instead of Lingua Latina for my ds9--we did part of Minimus last year and he really liked it.

 

 

JudoMom, are you saying that VL *uses* Lingua Latina starting around Lesson 17? (Just trying to understand.) How do you use these books?

Edited April 16, 2012 by Sweet Home Alabama

[JudoMom]

JudoMom, are you saying that VL *uses* Lingua Latina starting around Lesson 17? (Just trying to understand.)

 

:001_smile:--I'm still not fully caffeinated. Dwayne (the VL teacher) recommends Lingua Latina. Here is a link to the downloadable schedule.

[Sweet Home Alabama]

Bumping for more suggestions...:001_smile:

[Momling]

We used Minimus -> LL 1 -> LP1.

 

They're all really first year type books, and you could jump into any of them without any background. Minimus was my daughters absolute favorite, but also the easiest. I think it could be a great placeholder between ll and lp, if that's where you were heading. To fill it out, another option is to add in the exploratory Latin exam next year. We spent a month or two preparing for that. There are some PDFs you can buy to help study for it and my daughter really enjoyed those too.

[Momling]

Also minimus TM has great resale value.

[Sweet Home Alabama]

We used Minimus -> LL 1 -> LP1.

 

They're all really first year type books, and you could jump into any of them without any background. Minimus was my daughters absolute favorite, but also the easiest. I think it could be a great placeholder between ll and lp, if that's where you were heading. To fill it out, another option is to add in the exploratory Latin exam next year. We spent a month or two preparing for that. There are some PDFs you can buy to help study for it and my daughter really enjoyed those too.

 

 

Thanks, Momling! I haven't heard this before. Could you provide links to the exam and to the pdfs?

[Snickerdoodle]

I vote to just keep going with LL2.

 

Latin Prep moves much faster than Lively Latin.

[SophiaH]

You've probably read some of the threads where I was dealing with the same issue last year. My dd was the same age at the time. We ended up going with First Form coupled with Visual Latin. They were a great combination but if you're not wanting to be as Latin-centered as we were, either of those programs are wonderful. As much as we love Visual Latin, though, I would probably give FF a slight edge for your situation just because it ramps up more slowly and provides more practice on the topics. I don't know how I would feel about using VL as a stand-alone for a dc that young. We've continued with Classical pronunciation, with me doing the teaching, so we're not using the DVDs or CD which makes FF even more affordable. FF has been just the right amount of review and new material for a fourth grader to really get a great foundation in Latin.

 

I'm wanting to eventually be able to supplement the Form series with Lingua Latina, and in fact, dd has done a couple of chapters already for fun (we have the CD Rom) since she's past the recommended point in VL (per the aforementioned schedule correlating VL and Lingua). This summer we will have a few chapters to finish up in FF and then after that I'll have her work solely in VL and Lingua until we're ready for Second Form in the fall. Then I'll have her continue to work slowly through the VL/LL combo alongside SF. If she didn't enjoy Latin, I would just use one or the other but she loves the workbook and predictability of the Form series, and she enjoys the fun videos of VL.

 

(sorry about the scattered thoughts...just trying to throw some things out there...feel free to ask if you have any specific Qs I haven't addressed)

[redsquirrel]

We did LL1 twice. The first time took us 2 years with all the history and moving slowly, with lots of one on one teaching etc. The second time, he did it on his own and we skipped the history. He also did the tests and we reviewed anything he got wrong. That took us a school year. We also continued with a strong English grammar program. I think that did a lot for his Latin as well.

 

Now, he is a 6th grader using LL2. He is doing it on his own, I just correct the work. He hasn't mentioned any difficulty or that it moves too quickly etc. My plan is to to LL2 pretty much the same way.

[Sweet Home Alabama]

Thanks MamaHawk and RedSquirrel!

 

I like the look of First Form. I can see why you went this route. I'm just curious, though, did your child miss Lively Latin... the color, the routine, etc? Will you ever consider going back to do LL2?

 

There is a real downside to changing curriculum... having to get used to something totally new. I would not be excited about this... For this reason I'd consider sticking it out and do LL2 slowly.... I think.:confused:

 

My ds and I have really enjoyed LL this year. RedSquirrel, I think your idea of a review year makes a lot of sense. Maybe ds would just have to put up with it.:D

 

IF we reviewed LL1 and added in Minimus and Secundus, would these be a move FORWARD for us? I definitely want to make progress even if it's just in review. Are the TM necessary??? I'm basically looking for something for ds to look forward to in Latin if we're going to review the same text book stuff.

 

Please keep the ideas coming! You all have been a great help!:001_smile:

[SophiaH]

She really never talked about it, so I guess she didn't miss it. We actually finished up LL last January and then RedSquirrel gave me the review idea last year and we used that. She tested through LL until she made less than 85%, I think it was, and then I reprinted just the lesson's worksheets. But that only took her about two months. I haven't even thought about going back to LL2 because I think we have a good thing going with the Form/VL combo and I foresee this taking us through the next 3 years at least, when we should be close to finishing up the grammar.

 

I guess for her learning Latin itself is the exciting thing--she has enjoyed whatever curriculum I've put in front of her. She knows how much she's learned and has a great sense of accomplishment. Not to mention the brain-training! But I would not stress too much on feeling like you're not moving ahead quick enough--not saying you're doing this, just reflecting on my feelings at this time last year. They're so young with so many more years of learning Latin ahead of them. So based on my experience with this dc, I think a great foundation that gives confidence and a facility with the language is more important to their enjoyment than a "fun" curriculum.

 

Good luck with a tough decision!

[RegularMom]

I'm in the same boat as you. My 3rd grader is about to finish BB1. My older dd had done BB1 and about half of BB2, and then this year I switched to LC1, but that was way too easy and she got bored and frustrated, so I switched her to First Form halfway through the year. First Form is working well for her. But she's an older fifth grader. My younger dd is not an older 3rd grader.

 

So, next year, I'm thinking about having my 4th grader try LC1, with the understanding that it's going to feel much easier than LL, and transitioning her into requiring the retention of the subject matter. I don't think she's going to be ready for FF, and I don't want to start BB2 with her, because already I can see her beginning to get a little lost as we reach the end of BB1.

 

Doing LL with the girls so young, I simply used it as a way to be exposed to Latin. I didn't really require any retention. Now, with my 5th grader, I am requiring retention.

 

So, that's my plan, unless I find something that would act as a better bridge between BB1 and First Form to use next year, I'm going to go ahead with LC1, since I already have all the materials.

 

HTH

[Sweet Home Alabama]

I guess for her learning Latin itself is the exciting thing--she has enjoyed whatever curriculum I've put in front of her. She knows how much she's learned and has a great sense of accomplishment. Not to mention the brain-training! But I would not stress too much on feeling like you're not moving ahead quick enough--not saying you're doing this, just reflecting on my feelings at this time last year. They're so young with so many more years of learning Latin ahead of them. So based on my experience with this dc, I think a great foundation that gives confidence and a facility with the language is more important to their enjoyment than a "fun" curriculum.

 

Good luck with a tough decision!

 

I agree with you. It's nice when the curriculum is enjoyable too...

 

LL has been both for us, but I'd would like to know how you pair VL with FF. Could you tell me more about this? VL also can be paired with Lingua Latina....Hmmm, interesting. I need to look at these more maybe.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Sweet Home Alabama

[mazakaal]

LL is expensive; I would hate to get it only to become discouraged and quit. If you had it to do over again, would you go with LL2 or Visual Latin with Lingua Latina? (I've never looked at Lingua Latina...)

 

Please tell me how Lingua Latina works.

 

I'm using LL1 then LL2 with my dd, but I already own LL2. I'm not really sure what I would do if I didn't own it already. If you're not completely convinced on LL2, then get VL lessons 1-10. It's not much money to get started. At that point you can decide if your dc is thriving with it and you want to keep going, or if you want to go with something else instead. Lingua Latina can be used in conjunction with VL after lesson 17 but isn't necessary. Ds just started Lingua Latina a couple of weeks ago after lesson 20. I read through the chapter and ds translated orally. Then he did the exercises. He's been doing Latin for years so it's all pretty easy for him. I'd probably move more slowly with a younger child.

[Sweet Home Alabama]

I think Latin Prep would be too difficult for a 4th grader. I used LL2 with my second ds and got about half-way through before he stalled out. It's not a bad program at all, just a lot more difficult than LL1, and I think ds just really needed a change. He's using Visual Latin now with Lingua Latina. He's a lot older than your ds, but I think that VL and LL (or just VL) could be used with a younger child at a slower pace. I've never used Minimus or LfC, so I can't comment on those.

 

 

Megan,

I've looked at other Latin programs. I'm sure some/most are very good. I guess we could get used to something different...

 

But, I can't deny that we are used to Lively Latin. Ds really likes it, and LL1 has worked with him. Let me ask your opinion- what about this:

• Review LL1 1st semester of 4th grade.
  
• Move to LL2 and do what we can in 2nd semester of 4th grade.
  
• Continue LL2 in 5th grade and work toward completion.
  

Would a 5th grader be better able to handle the harder lessons in LL2? Most everyone who started LL2 got to the middle of it before they stalled out. We could make it at least this far in 2nd semester 4th grade. Then attack the rest in 5th when ds has more experience/maturity under him. Am I kidding myself or could this work???

 

(My second choice is looking like Visual Latin with or without a separate text. Still keeping this option open. I like the look of First Form... also the Lingua Latina??? that complements VL is an option.)

 

I just keep coming back to staying with what we are used to and what we started with.

 

I wish I understood why some posters made it through LL2 when others did not. What made the second part so hard? If reviewing LL1 would help us over this speed-bump, maybe we could do LL2 instead of changing to something completely new.

[mazakaal]

Megan,

I've looked at other Latin programs. I'm sure some/most are very good. I guess we could get used to something different...

 

But, I can't deny that we are used to Lively Latin. Ds really likes it, and LL1 has worked with him. Let me ask your opinion- what about this:

• Review LL1 1st semester of 4th grade.
  
• Move to LL2 and do what we can in 2nd semester of 4th grade.
  
• Continue LL2 in 5th grade and work toward completion.
  

Would a 5th grader be better able to handle the harder lessons in LL2? Most everyone who started LL2 got to the middle of it before they stalled out. We could make it at least this far in 2nd semester 4th grade. Then attack the rest in 5th when ds has more experience/maturity under him. Am I kidding myself or could this work???

 

(My second choice is looking like Visual Latin with or without a separate text. Still keeping this option open. I like the look of First Form... also the Lingua Latina??? that complements VL is an option.)

 

I just keep coming back to staying with what we are used to and what we started with.

 

I wish I understood why some posters made it through LL2 when others did not. What made the second part so hard? If reviewing LL1 would help us over this speed-bump, maybe we could do LL2 instead of changing to something completely new.

 

In your op you said that your ds doesn't want to review LL1 but wants to move on. I can understand this pov. He probably feels like it would be boring to just re-do what he's already done.

 

Maybe you can get VL lessons 1-10 and spend the first semester of 4th grade doing that to review the information in LL1 without him having to actually re-do the exact same exercises. Then you can get LL2 for the second semester of 4th and all of 5th.

 

You can actually download the first few lessons of VL for free. So, after ds has finished LL1, let him try the free lessons from VL. If that goes well, download the rest of VL lessons 1-10 and alternate those lessons with reviewing the vocabulary from LL1 (there's not a lot of vocabulary in VL and you don't want him to forget all the vocab that he's learned this year).

 

I'm not sure why ds stalled out in LL2. I think he was just getting tired of the format and needed a change. The materials weren't really too difficult. I just wanted to change things up for him because Latin is not his favorite subject and he was in a rut with LL2 at the time. I think that if your ds really likes LL1, he'll probably do fine with LL2. A little extra maturity and allowing a year and a half instead of just a year to complete it should help a lot.

[Sweet Home Alabama]

In your op you said that your ds doesn't want to review LL1 but wants to move on. I can understand this pov. He probably feels like it would be boring to just re-do what he's already done.

 

Maybe you can get VL lessons 1-10 and spend the first semester of 4th grade doing that to review the information in LL1 without him having to actually re-do the exact same exercises. Then you can get LL2 for the second semester of 4th and all of 5th.

 

You can actually download the first few lessons of VL for free. So, after ds has finished LL1, let him try the free lessons from VL. If that goes well, download the rest of VL lessons 1-10 and alternate those lessons with reviewing the vocabulary from LL1 (there's not a lot of vocabulary in VL and you don't want him to forget all the vocab that he's learned this year).

 

I'm not sure why ds stalled out in LL2. I think he was just getting tired of the format and needed a change. The materials weren't really too difficult. I just wanted to change things up for him because Latin is not his favorite subject and he was in a rut with LL2 at the time. I think that if your ds really likes LL1, he'll probably do fine with LL2. A little extra maturity and allowing a year and a half instead of just a year to complete it should help a lot.

 

 

This is encouraging. I know that no curriculum is perfect, but we've had no real problems with LL.

 

My original comment is true: he doesn't really want to review. We just might HAVE to in order to prepare for the next phase of Latin---whatever we end up using. I appreciate the VL suggestion to go through the first 10 lessons.

 

I tried to download the free VL lessons last night. I think it was successful, but I was not able to find and open them. I hope I can get that straightened out.

 

I've also emailed both Katherine (LL) and the VL guy to ask their opinions about all of this. Hopefully I'll be able to come to a decision soon.

 

Thank you, Megan!!!

 

 

Anyone else... please tell me what was hard about LL2. How could I prepare ds for the challenge? I'm leaning more toward sticking with LL2, but cautiously! :001_smile: Please advise.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

 

Anyone else... please tell me what was hard about LL2. How could I prepare ds for the challenge? I'm leaning more toward sticking with LL2, but cautiously! :001_smile: Please advise.

 

I have had moments of doubt with LL2, but am feeling better about the decision to use it.

 

We use Looking at Latin by Anna Andresian and A Latin Grammar Quick Study by BarCharts, INC. as supplements for review and reinforcement.

 

We have also increased the time spent on review. Latin is going more smoothly now. I'm happy with our decision to stay with LL 2.

[Sweet Home Alabama]

I have had moments of doubt with LL2, but am feeling better about the decision to use it.

 

We use Looking at Latin by Anna Andresian and A Latin Grammar Quick Study by BarCharts, INC. as supplements for review and reinforcement.

 

We have also increased the time spent on review. Latin is going more smoothly now. I'm happy with our decision to stay with LL 2.

 

 

I really appreciate the encouragement! I realize LL2 is going to be challenging, so now I need to be realistic about what to expect and to plan a schedule we can achieve. The more success we can experience, the better!

[JadeOrchidSong]

Does Lively Latin 2 ever go on sale? I bought LL 1 and now after reading this thread, I would like to continue with 2. We have done 10 lessons of LL 1 now. This has gone well and quickly for us since we already did GSWL before starting LL 1. Thanks!

[ElizabethB]

I did LfC for a while and have been really happy with the switch to Latin Alive. We started it when my daughter was still 9. For someone strong in grammar and LA skills, it you do it at a slow pace it can work. I personally watch the DVDs myself and then teach, but a motivated 9 year old could watch them on their own.