Amber in AUS Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 My DS LOVES his Lego. He's an engineer in the making his brain just works like that. What would be the minimum age in your opinion to start with Mindstorm? Is there something else that would come before that? :bigear: Other suggestions for me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairProspects Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I think it really depends on the kid, but I would start with all the Snap Circuit kits, Lego Technic Simple Machines, and Lego WeDo. WeDo is really the intro level before Mindstorms. Plus, the technic pieces interchange with Mindstorms (which is good since we lost some pieces). Other electronics parts and a circuit board from Radio Shack would be helpful training too. Ds had done Lego Engineering classes which I think were helpful and he had worked with all the sounds/lights/motors. When he started wiring his own lego creations with motors, battery packs, and LED lights, I decided I was holding him back and caved to the Mindstorm. Lego recommends age 10+. Minimum age for a PG kid would probably be 6-7, but it would go way over the head of most kids at that age. I've seen advanced 8 as a recommended age elsewhere, and I think that's a good general guideline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunnyDays Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Wow, I wasn't even aware of these Lego options. DS has a big Snap Circuits set and loves them, I have been wondering what might be a good next option. We might look into getting the WeDo later in the year... thanks for the info!! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amber in AUS Posted March 25, 2012 Author Share Posted March 25, 2012 We've got Snap Circuits here too and they are a hit! Off to look at WeDo and Technic now :) Thankyou. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amber in AUS Posted March 25, 2012 Author Share Posted March 25, 2012 WeDo looks perfect for next year, age 7. Thankyou so much! We will look at some other options too and try for Mindstorm around 9 if he can hold out that long LOL. He saw the robot just now and was drooling, as was DH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iucounu Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 DS started using Mindstorms at five. He had previously been exposed to some other programming concepts, but hadn't used Technics Legos yet (I think that's a good recommendation). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amber in AUS Posted March 25, 2012 Author Share Posted March 25, 2012 Oh, wow, 5! Will have to talk to DH and see what he thinks. Maybe we go straight to Mindstorm after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iucounu Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Oh, wow, 5! Will have to talk to DH and see what he thinks. Maybe we go straight to Mindstorm after all. It's very user friendly. It comes with a bunch of instructions for predesigned bots, where the hardware end will be familiar if your child has ever put together a Lego kit. The instructions also cover how to set up the prewritten program for each predesigned bot-- and after that any curious monkey-child will naturally start fiddling with the program to see what happens, and it's downhill from there. The programming environment that comes with Mindstorms is very visual-- you might not be aware of just how much. Even loops and branches are drag-and-drop constructs that one configures. Later on, it's possible to program in Java, C, and other languages, but it's not necessary to even think about those possibilities in the beginning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amber in AUS Posted March 26, 2012 Author Share Posted March 26, 2012 It's very user friendly. It comes with a bunch of instructions for predesigned bots, where the hardware end will be familiar if your child has ever put together a Lego kit. The instructions also cover how to set up the prewritten program for each predesigned bot-- and after that any curious monkey-child will naturally start fiddling with the program to see what happens, and it's downhill from there. The programming environment that comes with Mindstorms is very visual-- you might not be aware of just how much. Even loops and branches are drag-and-drop constructs that one configures. Later on, it's possible to program in Java, C, and other languages, but it's not necessary to even think about those possibilities in the beginning. Brilliant! Thankyou so much for that explanation. We are working with Scratch now and he LOVES Lego, following kits well above his age with no problems. I think we will go for it for next year. I'm excited, he's going to be over the moon!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairProspects Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Oh great, you all are making me feel just wonderful. :lol: I think that programming looks crazy hard (I never had the desire to do anything close to programming) and you all are swearing a 5 y.o. can do it. Just great for my self-esteem. Of course, I could just be bitter because I get called over all the time to deal with the fine motor tantrums when ds can't squeeze the pieces together or pull them apart. Those technic pieces are tiny and fiddly! Maybe the better gauge for Mindstorms isn't the child's age, but the parent's patience level! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizaG Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 (edited) My 6 year old watched his older sister do Mindstorms for the last few weeks, and is now doing it himself. He has had a lot of experience with Snap Circuits and K'Nex simple machines, but not WeDo, which I'd never heard of until this thread. He seems to get the concepts. I just have to keep reminding him to refer back to the manual to get his questions answered (we have a big green book; I forget the title). My contribution has been limited to walking him through looking up the instructions, and making him read them out loud if he has any confusion about what they mean. To my great happiness, he finally seems to be understanding the importance of not skipping small words when he reads. ;) ETA: It's this book, by Laurens Valk. I doubt they would get very far on their own without it, and there are no grown-ups available to do robots with them most of the time. That's starting to seem as if it might actually be a good thing. Edited March 26, 2012 by Eleanor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizaG Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Of course, I could just be bitter because I get called over all the time to deal with the fine motor tantrums when ds can't squeeze the pieces together or pull them apart. Those technic pieces are tiny and fiddly! Maybe the better gauge for Mindstorms isn't the child's age, but the parent's patience level! :D I'm a mean mommy about this (as usual ;)). If it leads to tantrums, or they don't keep it on trays and clean it up when I ask them, it goes back in the closet for several months. We only just got the K'Nex out quite recently, but when we did, they went completely nuts with it. We had models on every available surface; they even made a pull toy for the toddler. Even DH was a bit alarmed. :lol: So I wouldn't worry about them having to "catch up." If they're into this sort of thing, you might end up having to set some limits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 I'm waiting on mindstorms precisely because my DD, at 7, still struggles with technics pieces. I figure right now working on the fine motor skills and playing with Scratch and Alice is probably serving the same purpose, and that she'll have time to play with robotics when her fine motor skills mature a bit. She only recently got to the point where she had the hand strength to manage Snap Circuits by herself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairProspects Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 (edited) I'm a mean mommy about this (as usual ;)). If it leads to tantrums, or they don't keep it on trays and clean it up when I ask them, it goes back in the closet for several months. Ds has some other issues going on as well, so this would not work for us. I just do my best to increase my patience and help him work through it. :) Edited March 26, 2012 by FairProspects Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amber in AUS Posted March 26, 2012 Author Share Posted March 26, 2012 Thanks for continuing the discussion. My DS has pretty good fine motor skills for a boy, and a reasonably good frustration level so I think we will go for it for next school year, he will be 7. In the meantime we will continue with regular Lego, technic, and Scratch. Thanks for mentioning Alice I will take a look. Also thanks for that Lego Mindstorms book, it looks great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I think technic is a good place to start. My ds6 has an "engineer's mind" and has built the $100 technic crane for 11-16 year olds almost independently. It was supposed to be a family project but the older boys lost interest. That can lead nicely into Mindstorms bc you will understand the building component already. DS9 did a Mindstorm camp when he was almost 8 and had a blast...that's how we got into it so I think for your typical gifted kid, 7 is a good age with some support from mom or dad or a camp. However, my older 2 have done FLL and there is no way I will allow ds6 on the team until he is 8. My boys placed very well in our regional competition, but it was a struggle in the start with the 8 and 9 year old on the team. Sure a younger kid who is good with instructions can follow along and make it work but I think they miss the potential depth of learning if that is all they are doing. It just depends at what level they are experiencing it and if you want them to lose interest before they get to the really cool stuff. I haven't started ds6 on it yet, but will probably do so this summer when he's just turned 7. I think he will be ready, but after coaching FLL I am very well prepared to teach him on my own. Brownie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairProspects Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 He seems to get the concepts. I just have to keep reminding him to refer back to the manual to get his questions answered (we have a big green book; I forget the title). My contribution has been limited to walking him through looking up the instructions, and making him read them out loud if he has any confusion about what they mean. To my great happiness, he finally seems to be understanding the importance of not skipping small words when he reads. ;) ETA: It's this book, by Laurens Valk. I doubt they would get very far on their own without it, and there are no grown-ups available to do robots with them most of the time. That's starting to seem as if it might actually be a good thing. There's a book?!? That may be a huge part of our frustration - I handed the darn thing to ds and made him figure it out, which he did, but not without some meltdowns. I think I may order the book to make it easy on him. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizaG Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 There's a book?!? That may be a huge part of our frustration - I handed the darn thing to ds and made him figure it out, which he did, but not without some meltdowns. I think I may order the book to make it easy on him. :D I think it would help a lot. For the price of the set, it's surprising that there isn't a substantial manual included. (I know there's online help, but I used to be a technical writer, and "put it in the online help" is code for "who cares what you write, nobody is going to read this anyway." ;)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunnyDays Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Is there a similar book for WeDo, if we wanted to start there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iucounu Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I think it would help a lot. For the price of the set, it's surprising that there isn't a substantial manual included. (I know there's online help, but I used to be a technical writer, and "put it in the online help" is code for "who cares what you write, nobody is going to read this anyway." ;)) There is a fairly substantial manual included. It's in the software that has to be installed to use the product, and there are clear instructions included on how to do that. Once the software's loaded, there are huge unmissable buttons to click to launch into descriptions of the various predesigned bots, with how to construct the program and the hardware for each. Complete step-by-step instructions are also given for whatever setup may need to be done, such as copying the program from the computer to the bot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizaG Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 (edited) There is a fairly substantial manual included. It's in the software that has to be installed to use the product, and there are clear instructions included on how to do that. Once the software's loaded, there are huge unmissable buttons to click to launch into descriptions of the various predesigned bots, with how to construct the program and the hardware for each. Complete step-by-step instructions are also given for whatever setup may need to be done, such as copying the program from the computer to the bot. My remark about online help was meant in a general way (as it related to my purchasing decisions). There are certainly exceptions. But I'll have to take your word for it on the quality of these particular instructions, because it turns out that whenever we click on those big buttons, the software crashes. :lol: We do plan to fix it, but I'd just as soon have the children spend less time reading complete step-by-step tutorials on the computer screen anyway. YMMV. What I'm seeing over here is the development of research skills and hands-on discovery. We didn't even start using the software until they'd both tinkered around with building several different styles of robots and programming them directly on the NXT brick, using both the supplied manual and the green book. Then they started bugging me to use the computer (which meant kicking me off it), and used the book to figure out how to write and download very simple programs. They are moving ahead slowly, but that's okay. It means that they're having to think hard -- and also that I don't need to think about buying more sets for a while. Edited March 27, 2012 by Eleanor clarification Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justLisa Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 DS was 5-6. Now he is going on 8 and working through a book of different things to make/program. We bought a few technic sets just for the pieces and he creates all sorts of things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amber in AUS Posted March 27, 2012 Author Share Posted March 27, 2012 What I'm seeing over here is the development of research skills and hands-on discovery. We didn't even start using the software until they'd both tinkered around with building several different styles of robots and programming them directly on the NXT brick, using both the supplied manual and the green book. Then they started bugging me to use the computer (which meant kicking me off it), and used the book to figure out how to write and download very simple programs. They are moving ahead slowly, but that's okay. It means that they're having to think hard -- and also that I don't need to think about buying more sets for a while. Brilliant! Exactly what i am looking to foster here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 bumping this thread up since we just bought the Mindstorm. My just turn 7 year old is having fun programming the NXT brick. Now my boys are eyeing getting another NXT brick. They have been tinkering with drag and drop programming as well as Lego Technics for the past two years though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathnerd Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 My 5 year old is doing simple Mindstorm NXT projects with his dad (who is into robotics and hopes to develop DS's interest in that direction). Mostly it is DS helping while his dad works on a simple project. He is so excited to help make simple robots that we hope he learns by watching - so, I recommend an early start in NXT if a grown up can help them get started or work with them to teach them about the basics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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