kardamom Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 I also think their forums are terrible and do nothing but stir up controversy. But maybe that's what they want? Lisa From what I've seen over the last three years, I doubt it. I think John, with his degree in philosophy, enjoyed a good debate and was in his element on the forums. I think they grew into something that the people at Sonlight now don't want to have to deal with since he's not participating in them anymore. I think Sonlight would like nothing better than for their forums to be a happy, friendly place where nobody posts anything but recipes, questions about how to help Sammy with his spelling, or asks for advice on what core would be best for a family with a 4, 6, and 7 yo. I suspect Sarita dislikes conflict enough that she'd rather have her business shrink than deal with forum controversies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southcarolinamom Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 I hear you, Lisa x 2. Your questions are valid, and I wish I could provide for you specific ways in which I see SL morphing over time. Alas, much of it is directly related to discussions that have taken place at the non-curriculum SL forums; unless you've been an active participant over the years, I think my explanations will be lost on you. There is an undefinable sense that SL desires to go "back to their roots" (as Sarita put it), e.g. place more emphasis upon a conservative, evangelical outlook. To some degree, I think this is a matter of dollars and sense, as they see it. I believe they underestimate their value among secular and non-conservative and/or non-evangelical homeschoolers. They want to double down and make clear the fact that they are very much evangelical in outlook. And I should note that I don't for a moment think it's all about money. Sarita has a heart for missions; she has a heart for evangelism. I absolutely believe she sees it as her duty to emphasize this in her curriculum, and I don't begrudge her for following her heart. This latest issue about Marshall's books underscores the gradual shift at SL. When John was still at the helm, he interacted on the forums, sharing his thoughts ~ too much, some would argue ~ on all manner of hot topics. As Sarita has said, he often played the devil's advocate, countering conservative Christianity positions on such topics as young-earth creationism and providential history. Those discussions created a sense of openness. They invited a wide array of perspectives. And they conveyed the impression that SL was far "broader", for lack of a better word, than they really were. When John stepped aside, it became increasingly clear that his voice was, after all, just the voice of John (and even at that, perhaps only what John was thinking through at that particular time). It wasn't the voice of Sonlight. As I said earlier, we see that clearly now that even Sarita didn't/doesn't share his opinion of the Marshall books. It is of far more import to her to encourage homeschoolers in their rather traditional roles (thus the "Hannah Keeley" debacle, in which SL tried to form a relationship with, and recommend to us, a Christian, self-professed Super Mom of many). Thus the reminder that the SL forums are first and foremost a place where evangelical Christianity is prioritized. Thus the greater emphasis on praying for those who don't "know Jesus" (this references an addition to the Bible portion of the 2012 Core B). Thus the deluge of WASP-y catalog pics. I've rambled. And likely not answered your questions. It's one little thing after another ~ and yet, I can completely understand why to some, it may seem like nothing. I can not offer you more than I've shared above. Sonlight is dear to my heart, always has been and always will be. If that wasn't the case, I wouldn't be so disappointed to realize that after all, we're not really on the same page. Doesn't mean I won't move on to repeat Core D and Core H this next year, as planned. Doesn't mean I won't enjoy our history & lit adventures. But between what I perceive to be a slippery slope; inevitable poor marketing decisions; and innumerable, never-ending changes, my real commitment to the company is over. I'll happily give my dollars to my local, independent book shop instead. :iagree: Well stated, Colleen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
readwithem Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 :iagree:I think all of this is true. The forums have no place for discussion or disagreement with their current product line or philosophy. From what I've seen over the last three years, I doubt it. I think John, with his degree in philosophy, enjoyed a good debate and was in his element on the forums. I think they grew into something that the people at Sonlight now don't want to have to deal with since he's not participating in them anymore. I think Sonlight would like nothing better than for their forums to be a happy, friendly place where nobody posts anything but recipes, questions about how to help Sammy with his spelling, or asks for advice on what core would be best for a family with a 4, 6, and 7 yo. I suspect Sarita dislikes conflict enough that she'd rather have her business shrink than deal with forum controversies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZooRho Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 From what I've seen over the last three years, I doubt it. I think John, with his degree in philosophy, enjoyed a good debate and was in his element on the forums. I think they grew into something that the people at Sonlight now don't want to have to deal with since he's not participating in them anymore. I think Sonlight would like nothing better than for their forums to be a happy, friendly place where nobody posts anything but recipes, questions about how to help Sammy with his spelling, or asks for advice on what core would be best for a family with a 4, 6, and 7 yo. I suspect Sarita dislikes conflict enough that she'd rather have her business shrink than deal with forum controversies. Yeah totally this. Sarita wants a happy place, hard to have a happy place when Moms die, Children die, divorces happen, Children get involved in drugs, get arrested, threaten authority, and well life is just really and many times it is sucky. People need to know that using a curriculum wont' guarantee you perfect children who follow in your Christian footsteps. and isn't it surprising since their tout is they want you to raise thinking kids. That they don't really want it on the forums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 I think John, with his degree in philosophy, enjoyed a good debate and was in his element on the forums. I think they grew into something that the people at Sonlight now don't want to have to deal with since he's not participating in them anymore. Yes, this is my impression. Yeah totally this. Sarita wants a happy place, hard to have a happy place when Moms die, Children die, divorces happen, Children get involved in drugs, get arrested, threaten authority, and well life is just really and many times it is sucky. Well, in Sonlight's defense, sharing life's challenges are by no means discouraged on the forums; in fact, much of the traffic on the non-curriculum forums is generated by people posting about such things. Ongoing conversations about self-education ~ art, literature, etcetera ~ are now next to non-existent, but that isn't necessarily the fault of SL. I do think online communities have changed a great deal over the past decade. Forums are no longer the place to be. As far as potentially hot topics are concerned, it should be noted that the WTM draws lines, too ~ disallowing political discussion, for example. Also, moderating here at the WTM can be far more heavy-handed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZooRho Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Yes, this is my impression. Well, in Sonlight's defense, sharing life's challenges are by no means discouraged on the forums; in fact, much of the traffic on the non-curriculum forums is generated by people posting about such things. Ongoing conversations about self-education ~ art, literature, etcetera ~ are now next to non-existent, but that isn't necessarily the fault of SL. I do think online communities have changed a great deal over the past decade. Forums are no longer the place to be. As far as potentially hot topics are concerned, it should be noted that the WTM draws lines, too ~ disallowing political discussion, for example. Also, moderating here at the WTM can be far more heavy-handed. oh yeah didn't mean to say it wasn't allowed, it is just in Sarita's world of happy place, she didn't like that there was talk about that the use of godly curriculum won't make your kids turn out. yeah real life is messy. and yes forums have changed much with the advent of fb things have changed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennay Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 From what I've seen over the last three years, I doubt it. I think John, with his degree in philosophy, enjoyed a good debate and was in his element on the forums. I think they grew into something that the people at Sonlight now don't want to have to deal with since he's not participating in them anymore. I think Sonlight would like nothing better than for their forums to be a happy, friendly place where nobody posts anything but recipes, questions about how to help Sammy with his spelling, or asks for advice on what core would be best for a family with a 4, 6, and 7 yo. I suspect Sarita dislikes conflict enough that she'd rather have her business shrink than deal with forum controversies. Very astute observations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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