I'm really frustrated about this "The Light and The Glory" thing!

[boscopup]

Amy's comments on there were helpful to me. I think she was really trying to answer questions, unlike Judy (and I understand it's probably Judy's job to just spout the party line and not answer questions more thoroughly).

 

It sounds like they're using just a few topics from these books, but my question is still... Couldn't they ask for feedback from customers as to which books/resources they've used for these topics to get a better suggestion? Surely they can find a book on the Great Awakening. I was even taught about that in public school. :tongue_smilie: (and it wasn't in an anti-Christian or pro-Christian way... they simply explained what happened and why, what the people were thinking, that sort of thing)

 

In the 2005 Core, it includes the Great Awakening by suggesting use of an encyclopedia and writing a paper about it (their short report thing). For this age group (again, it's marketed to 3rd-4th graders!), I think that's perfectly sufficient. Go more in depth in Core 100. They keep mentioning "gaps", but there is plenty of information in that core for this age group. If they didn't mention the Great Awakening in the high school core, I'd be upset (again, I learned about it in my public school high school class - I don't think we covered it before then).

 

Oh well. I can't post to the suggestion box thread that Amy posted in, and I hate the talk to sonlight forum that you can't reply to your own thread to say whether the response was helpful or not. :tongue_smilie:I'm only on a 30 day trial membership (and won't be purchasing full access).

[...................]

It's all an interesting study in human character and marketing though.

 

Sonlight, like no other homeschooling company, took their marketing to the max. They had/have one of the biggest catalogs, (and I remember being disgusted when the front of the catalog changed from looking like a catalog to a magazine with all the different font styles, font colors, zoomed in photos, and teaser marketing lines)... the most complicated and in-depth website, they were some of the first to provide good forum access, they market via homeschool conferences, they market via email, they market in every single magazine, they advertise on nearly every homeschooling website that allows it, as well as blogs. They have published company bios, teasers, videos, of every sort..and generally have been extremely aggressive and "catchy" with their marketing (like the "teaser videos, changes every year, slogans (Love to Learn guaranteed) and on and on and on.

 

So a LOT of homeschool moms really put a lot of hope and trust in this company. They really thought they would "Love to learn" they really believed that sonlight "Listened to Customers" and they felt they were using the "best choices" for their kids, and on and on. And maybe they did "love to learn" and maybe they did really enjoy the product.

 

Nobody would be so upset if they hadn't put so much hope lock stock and barrel in a company...and much of that hope and hype had to be based on advertising and marketing.

 

What surprises me is that some people didn't see this coming. SL has, for years, just made whatever changes suited them to earn more money and draw in more customers for that year. Being capitalist, I am fine with that. But it just means that I am not shocked or surprised that they would continue being chameleons.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Calming Tea

[CupOCoffee]

Hmmm...this is all very disheartening to me. I have been using SL since 2001, but have not purchased a new Core for a few years. My 10 year old is now using the Core that this controversial book is part of. I've considered updating once the new catalog came out (after all, the Core is OLD)...kind of glad I can't afford it.

 

I have been on the SL forums for many years, although mostly silent, and I have watched it disintegrate (I was there for the big poof of many, many long time posters). It is very sad that the company has changed so drastically since Sarita has been in charge.

 

I am truly glad I found *this* forum, from veiled references over on SL ;)

 

Now maybe I will sneak off to see what all the hub-bub is over there....

 

~coffee~

[ZooRho]

Somewhere along the line Sonlight acquired the reputation for "listening to its customers." People have this expectation of that and are shocked and dismayed to find that SL really does not listen at all. Sure, they have an open ear. But shall I say, ever since John left, there have been forum poofs when discussions got heated, threads locked, threads deleted, people denied further access to their forums, forums requiring payment, etc.

 

Sure, they have their forums, but since most of them are closed to the public, why should they care what is being posted there?

 

It amuses me that all of these changes in the new IG Sarita has attributed to the fact that their employee Wayne stated the IGs were difficult to use, and then their daughter stated that they were impossible to muddle through . . . thus the improvements we see this year. Never mind the fact that these issues have been addressed ad nauseum by custmer feedback on their forums for about 10 years. Amusing to me that Sarita never said once in her video that customers had anything to do with their changes.

 

I believe they are very purposefully trying to get back to their own American Christian roots, to stop trying to please everybody (or maybe anybody) and get busy producing a curriculum package and guide that can bring "the next generation" of homeschoolers under their wing. I think Sarita is much more providential American Christian than John was ever willing to publicly be. They (Sonlight and the Holzmanns) have paid quite a price personally and with the "Christian Homeschool Movement" as it were, and I don't think Sarita is willing to engage in conversation about her choices, least of all with customers of old, when they have so many more waiting to join the bandwagon.

 

The "conversation days" with Sonlight have been long dead and gone.

 

OH MY gosh True words have been spoken.

 

You really laid out so very much about the ways of the company.

 

And too funny about Sarita's video, I couldn't watch it it was to distracting .

[msjones]

It wouldn't make much difference to go there. They've locked all threads discussing it. Someone asked point-blank if this meant that they were endorsing a providentialist view of American history and it was deleted.

 

The book series claims that America is God's chosen land. The authors claim to know God's intent and misuse sources and outright ignore facts in order to "prove" their thesis.

 

Oh. Ick.

 

Glad this book wasn't around when I did Cores 3 and 4 with my kids.

 

Will the books in question be the new history spine? Or can they just be skipped? I have skipped plenty of Sonlight books.

[boscopup]

Will the books in question be the new history spine? Or can they just be skipped? I have skipped plenty of Sonlight books.

 

They are day 5 books (the new cores will basically be a 4 day schedule, then have an optional 5th day that is somewhat unrelated to the 4 day stuff, except that the readers and some other things were still 5 day... not sure how that works for the 4 day folks? :tongue_smilie:).

 

The spine is still Landmark.

[QuirkyKapers]

So what years was he at the helm?

 

:iagree:

 

 

What are the years of the cores you would use that from when John was there rather than since he left?

[CupOCoffee]

They are day 5 books (the new cores will basically be a 4 day schedule, then have an optional 5th day that is somewhat unrelated to the 4 day stuff, except that the readers and some other things were still 5 day... not sure how that works for the 4 day folks? :tongue_smilie:).

 

The spine is still Landmark.

 

I've picked up on this fact from what I've read *here*...I don't think I like that change either...sounds like it's across the board in all Cores? Thanks, but I *do* school 5 days, so I'll just keep my old Cores. Sigh.

 

I just don't understand what was so bad about having a 5 day and a 4 day? Maybe because I never used the 4 day package/schedule?

 

~coffee~

[3peasinapod]

I've picked up on this fact from what I've read *here*...I don't think I like that change either...sounds like it's across the board in all Cores? Thanks, but I *do* school 5 days, so I'll just keep my old Cores. Sigh.

 

I just don't understand what was so bad about having a 5 day and a 4 day? Maybe because I never used the 4 day package/schedule?

 

~coffee~

 

I have no idea, but I would speculate that with the back side of each IG page open (before it was 5-day on one side, 4-day on the other), now they can put the LA IG on the backside of the core IG, thus making it more streamlined. Maybe for a digital IG? I have no idea.

[Jennay]

I just went over to youtube and looked up Sonlight curriculum and watched the entire 54 minute video John Holzmann did on the history of Sonlight for the company's 20th.

 

The beginning gives good insight into the backgrounds of John and Sarita and how they balanced each other so well. The last 15 minutes or so gives an explanation why John began pulling back for the next generation of the company and I found heartbreaking for his personal emotional investment in the company and customers and the toll it had on him.

 

haradmom - can you post a link to this video?

[Jennay]

I just went over to youtube and looked up Sonlight curriculum and watched the entire 54 minute video John Holzmann did on the history of Sonlight for the company's 20th.

 

The beginning gives good insight into the backgrounds of John and Sarita and how they balanced each other so well. The last 15 minutes or so gives an explanation why John began pulling back for the next generation of the company and I found heartbreaking for his personal emotional investment in the company and customers and the toll it had on him.

 

haradmom - can you post a link to this video?

 

 

Nevermind - I found it:

[Annie Laurie]

I supported John Holzmann's Sonlight 100%, and I'm so thankful I bought all the elementary-jr.high cores when he was at the helm.

 

I do not support Sarita Holzmann's Sonlight at all.

 

This really gets down to the heart of the matter. I'm glad I already bought them then too.

[Colleen]

Somewhere along the line Sonlight acquired the reputation for "listening to its customers." People have this expectation of that and are shocked and dismayed to find that SL really does not listen at all. Sure, they have an open ear. But shall I say, ever since John left, there have been forum poofs when discussions got heated, threads locked, threads deleted, people denied further access to their forums, forums requiring payment, etc.

 

Sure, they have their forums, but since most of them are closed to the public, why should they care what is being posted there?

 

It amuses me that all of these changes in the new IG Sarita has attributed to the fact that their employee Wayne stated the IGs were difficult to use, and then their daughter stated that they were impossible to muddle through . . . thus the improvements we see this year. Never mind the fact that these issues have been addressed ad nauseum by custmer feedback on their forums for about 10 years. Amusing to me that Sarita never said once in her video that customers had anything to do with their changes.

 

I believe they are very purposefully trying to get back to their own American Christian roots, to stop trying to please everybody (or maybe anybody) and get busy producing a curriculum package and guide that can bring "the next generation" of homeschoolers under their wing. I think Sarita is much more providential American Christian than John was ever willing to publicly be. They (Sonlight and the Holzmanns) have paid quite a price personally and with the "Christian Homeschool Movement" as it were, and I don't think Sarita is willing to engage in conversation about her choices, least of all with customers of old, when they have so many more waiting to join the bandwagon.

 

The "conversation days" with Sonlight have been long dead and gone.

Well said, Joan.

[ZooRho]

I can't find a post I read not sure if it ws here or else where.

 

but on SL you can READ the locked threads you just can't post on them.

[estelleblue]

They are not perfect, but I think that they are good. And I want them to stay in business. I don't want the only fairly conservative Christian homeschooling voice to be radical VF-style.

 

Could someone explain what "radical VF-style" christian is? I have done a forum and google search and cannot figure it out. I had decided to used Sonlight next year prior to all these changes being announced. Now, I'm just trying to figure it all out like everyone else. thanks!

[Zoo Keeper]

Could someone explain what "radical VF-style" christian is? I have done a forum and google search and cannot figure it out. I had decided to used Sonlight next year prior to all these changes being announced. Now, I'm just trying to figure it all out like everyone else. thanks!

 

 

I'm guessing it is a reference to Vision Forum. SL is not affiliated with Vision Forum, but some people may be spotting similarities.

[Joy at Home]

I support Sonlight and I try to buy from them.

 

This is even though I have never used one of their cores.

 

They were among the first to put forward a one stop shopping approach to Christian homeschooling. They put their programs together for missionary families and have a strong focus on missions work, in a respectful, multi-culturally sensitive way, which I think is really good. They have been outcast by a radical VF Christian element in many areas, and even in their own state. There is no whiff of racism or anything like that in their materials, unlike those who cast them out. They can't fall back on secular homeschoolers like others can.

 

They are not perfect, but I think that they are good. And I want them to stay in business. I don't want the only fairly conservative Christian homeschooling voice to be radical VF-style.

 

Carol, I agree with you and I know I'm in the minority here, but I just don't feel the outrage. I think Amy's explanations are very feasible. I suppose if they wen't back to using TLATG as a spine or relied on it more heavily, I would feel differently. It's an optional fifth day book and the portions scheduled do not contain the problematic themes as outlined in John's post (according to SL).

 

I guess I just don't expect to agree with every choice, just as I don't agree with every TOG book. There was a megathread last year about This Country of Ours being used in TOG's schedule, with objections to the outdated book's racist language. Many of us defended TOG's choices and saw some value in the book despite our disagreement in its antiquated themes.

 

I say this as a fairly liberal Christian who does NOT believe in the junk being passed off as history in many conservative Christian circles. My perspective, though, extends plenty of grace to SL and its choices and doesn't see this as some sneaky agenda or huge shift in SL ideology.

 

Lisa

[ktgrok]

Ok, on this page Amy says specifically they are not moving towards a providential view of history. Thank heavens.

 

https://forums.sonlight.com/topic/317738-saritas-answer-to-the-light-and-the-glory/

[ZooRho]

Ok, on this page Amy says specifically they are not moving towards a providential view of history. Thank heavens.

 

https://forums.sonlight.com/topic/317738-saritas-answer-to-the-light-and-the-glory/

 

actions will speak louder than words.

 

Their actions in many other ways are showing things differently.

[ktgrok]

actions will speak louder than words.

 

Their actions in many other ways are showing things differently.

 

what ways, other than the books mentioned, would you say show them leaning towards a providential understanding?

[Joy at Home]

actions will speak louder than words.

 

Their actions in many other ways are showing things differently.

 

What actions?

 

I just don't see how there is any realistic concern that SL is sliding toward this kind of ideology given the BIG picture of what they offer (which is what I think we're losing here). Most of their book choices are far, far from conservative. Not a year goes by that someone doesn't suggest the substitution of MOH for the secular SOTW, for example.

 

Just not seeing it . . .

 

Lisa

[ZooRho]

what ways, other than the books mentioned, would you say show them leaning towards a providential understanding?

 

 

Probably not providential but far more evangelical protestant and not allowing other thoughts

 

Sarita, made comments about her vision of the forums, there have been comments about Catholics. etc

[ZooRho]

What actions?

 

I just don't see how there is any realistic concern that SL is sliding toward this kind of ideology given the BIG picture of what they offer (which is what I think we're losing here). Most of their book choices are far, far from conservative. Not a year goes by that someone doesn't suggest the substitution of MOH for the secular SOTW, for example.

 

Just not seeing it . . .

 

Lisa

 

more many of the old timers are seeing a slippery slope

[simka2]

what ways, other than the books mentioned, would you say show them leaning towards a providential understanding?

 

As I was reading through their forums today (what weird forums! only one response per post. No discussion? :confused:) I saw this. Between the whole one post thing and this https://forums.sonlight.com/topic/317650-what-is-americas-unique-position/ I found it a bit concerning.

 

Now, a company that has changed around this much could quite easily change things back. Maybe, they underestimated the confusion this would bring and the strong feelings people have about these books. I am guessing when they took them out originally, many people saw it as a sign of their pursuit of accurate history and respected them for it. Now they do not know how to feel.

 

Just some thoughts.

[ZooRho]

As I was reading through their forums today (what weird forums! only one response per post. No discussion? :confused:) I saw this. Between the whole one post thing and this https://forums.sonlight.com/topic/317650-what-is-americas-unique-position/ I found it a bit concerning.

 

 

ah the lovely (snark) Dear Sonlight, only Sl people can respond, even the OP can't respond back. The suggestion forum is public I THINK.

Now, a company that has changed around this much could quite easily change things back. Maybe, they underestimated the confusion this would bring and the strong feelings people have about these books. I am guessing when they took them out originally, many people saw it as a sign of their pursuit of accurate history and respected them for it. Now they do not know how to feel.

 

Just some thoughts.

 

Right. John's extensive notes and thought about this book and how poor it was really makes this shocking.

 

Now I realize they supposedly have a revised book but I have heard not much has changed in it.

[amselby81]

I have a question that is kind of unrelated to the book in question. But this thread has brought this Providential idea to my attention. Would you say that Abeka is similar? I taught at a private school for 3 years, and I remember the History books saying things like, "America is the greatest country in the World." And I went along with it b/c supposedly Abeka is such a great curriculum. And I never taught past 2nd grade, so I don't know if Abeka eventually becomes more realistic. I kind of just chalked it up to trying to instill a pride in your country at a young age, and really, we don't need to get into all the gory details in Kindergarten through 2nd grade. But, if the gory details are ignored all the way through, then I have an issue with Abeka.

[Joy at Home]

more many of the old timers are seeing a slippery slope

 

 

Again, old timer or not, this suggestion is completely unsubstantiated and not reflected in the entirety of what SL offers. Honestly, with all due respect to some of the long-time users (Colleen, you know I heart you), it seems like a gross overreaction to me. FWIW, I started using SL ten years ago and own most of their cores, so I guess I could be considered somewhat of an old-timer myself;)

 

For the record, I understand Colleen and others have other, broader issues related to the PROCESS by which SL made this decision and how they are handling it now. I am specifically addressing the "slippery slope" theory.

 

Lisa

[melmichigan]

The answer SL is giving for why they are adding these books back after John's comments is that Sarita doesn't agree with John's view. Ok, given that John wrote much of the curriculum what does that mean to the big picture? I think that could be one of many reasons for question of a slippery slope. It appears more as a progression over time. It's not just one thing, not just one change, one comment, one email, or even one beam, it is putting all those things together. Things have been changing in the company and assurance was given that the curriculum remains the same (as of last year), but that doesn't appear to be the case.

[Joy at Home]

The answer SL is giving for why they are adding these books back after John's comments is that Sarita doesn't agree with John's view. Ok, given that John wrote much of the curriculum what does that mean to the big picture? I think that could be one of many reasons for question of a slippery slope. It appears more as a progression over time. It's not just one thing, not just one change, one comment, one email, or even one beam, it is putting all those things together. Things have been changing in the company and assurance was given that the curriculum remains the same (as of last year), but that doesn't appear to be the case.

 

Other than the addition of these optional books, I guess I just don't see any substantive changes to the curriculum as a whole to warrant this concern. We can speculate, but the evidence is in the product. What in their product even hints of this view?

 

Lisa

[Kathryn]

I have a question that is kind of unrelated to the book in question. But this thread has brought this Providential idea to my attention. Would you say that Abeka is similar? I taught at a private school for 3 years, and I remember the History books saying things like, "America is the greatest country in the World." And I went along with it b/c supposedly Abeka is such a great curriculum. And I never taught past 2nd grade, so I don't know if Abeka eventually becomes more realistic. I kind of just chalked it up to trying to instill a pride in your country at a young age, and really, we don't need to get into all the gory details in Kindergarten through 2nd grade. But, if the gory details are ignored all the way through, then I have an issue with Abeka.

 

Yes, Abeka is like this. There were a bunch of Abeka history textbooks at my local homeschool store for $2 each, so I bought the whole series. Once I got around to looking in them, I gave them away. I was appalled and disgusted at the pro-American propaganda.

[Kathryn]

The answer SL is giving for why they are adding these books back after John's comments is that Sarita doesn't agree with John's view. Ok, given that John wrote much of the curriculum what does that mean to the big picture? I think that could be one of many reasons for question of a slippery slope. It appears more as a progression over time. It's not just one thing, not just one change, one comment, one email, or even one beam, it is putting all those things together. Things have been changing in the company and assurance was given that the curriculum remains the same (as of last year), but that doesn't appear to be the case.

 

This.

[Mom0012]

Again, old timer or not, this suggestion is completely unsubstantiated and not reflected in the entirety of what SL offers. Honestly, with all due respect to some of the long-time users (Colleen, you know I heart you), it seems like a gross overreaction to me. FWIW, I started using SL ten years ago and own most of their cores, so I guess I could be considered somewhat of an old-timer myself;)

 

For the record, I understand Colleen and others have other, broader issues related to the PROCESS by which SL made this decision and how they are handling it now. I am specifically addressing the "slippery slope" theory.

 

Lisa

 

I kind of agree. Last year, we were all outraged about the catalog. And rightly so, I thought. :D

 

This year, it's because of a couple of books added to one of the cores and the reformatting of the IG into what looks to me like a much more user-friendly format. Yes, I know they added bible back into the core, but I remember everyone being outraged years ago when they took it out. People were crying that SL was no longer a Christian company.

 

I think people (myself included) just feel so strongly about this curriculum that they have trouble with any changes that are made to it at all. Last year, I bought a full Core from them for the first time ever because they were changing Core 100 and I wanted it to stay the same. In hindsight, that was probably foolish and now I wish I had just waited to make a decision. I also think their forums are terrible and do nothing but stir up controversy. But maybe that's what they want?

 

Lisa

Edited March 17, 2012 by LisaTheresa

[ZooRho]

The answer SL is giving for why they are adding these books back after John's comments is that Sarita doesn't agree with John's view. Ok, given that John wrote much of the curriculum what does that mean to the big picture? I think that could be one of many reasons for question of a slippery slope. It appears more as a progression over time. It's not just one thing, not just one change, one comment, one email, or even one beam, it is putting all those things together. Things have been changing in the company and assurance was given that the curriculum remains the same (as of last year), but that doesn't appear to be the case.

 

Very much this.

 

I'm not good at explaining things

[Mom0012]

I have a question that is kind of unrelated to the book in question. But this thread has brought this Providential idea to my attention. Would you say that Abeka is similar? I taught at a private school for 3 years, and I remember the History books saying things like, "America is the greatest country in the World." And I went along with it b/c supposedly Abeka is such a great curriculum. And I never taught past 2nd grade, so I don't know if Abeka eventually becomes more realistic. I kind of just chalked it up to trying to instill a pride in your country at a young age, and really, we don't need to get into all the gory details in Kindergarten through 2nd grade. But, if the gory details are ignored all the way through, then I have an issue with Abeka.

 

I remember being taught like this in public school as a child. It did instill pride in me about my country and I don't really see anything wrong with that in the younger years. I think it is a good thing and I'm kind of sorry it's something that is no longer done any more.

 

Interestingly, a number of years ago, I bought some of the Horrible History books for my son and he started reading one of them and they were ripping Columbus apart. My son was so upset, I decided he was too young to have his ideals blown to pieces. When we did SL 3 and SL 4, we did discuss the flip side of things and I do believe most subjects were addressed in a very realistic manner in the Landmark book. He was ready for that then. I really think the Landmark book will offset the viewpoint in The Light and the Glory.

 

Lisa

Edited March 17, 2012 by LisaTheresa

[Colleen]

Ok, on this page Amy says specifically they are not moving towards a providential view of history. Thank heavens.

 

 

Asking a business if they're moving toward (fill in the blank with whatever you've made clear you seek to avoid) and expecting they might answer in the affirmative is unreasonable. I'm not saying Sonlight, or any other company put in that situation, will intentionally lie, per se, but they'll answer judiciously.

[Colleen]

I remember being taught like this in public school as a child. It did instill pride in me about my country and I don't really see anything wrong with that in the younger years. I think it is a good thing and I'm kind of sorry it's something that is no longer done any more.

 

Whereas I had to provide an explanation, as an elementary-aged student, as to why I declined to participate in the Pledge of Allegiance.;)

[mom2scouts]

Ugh, I was hoping to buy two Cores for next year, including Core D. I hate that they are going to include the LA. The spelling program they include is the one and only homeschool curriculum that I ditched because it didn't work well for us. Now I have to worry about what to do with this book. We have loved using SL, but now I've been seriously looking at other options.

[Colleen]

As I was reading through their forums today (what weird forums! only one response per post. No discussion? :confused:)

 

To clarify, those without a subscription can only view Sonlight's handful of public forums. The "Dear Sonlight" forum you were looking at is not a discussion forum; it's essentially just a way to voice an opinion to SL directly. I posted my question/comment there intentionally because I wanted to visitors to be able to read it.:)

[Colleen]

Ugh, I was hoping to buy two Cores for next year, including Core D. I hate that they are going to include the LA. The spelling program they include is the one and only homeschool curriculum that I ditched because it didn't work well for us. Now I have to worry about what to do with this book. We have loved using SL, but now I've been seriously looking at other options.

 

Consider purchasing the 2011 Core D now, before April 1, while it's still available.

[Just Another Jen]

Colleen and all,

I posted a question directly to Amy about whether I was a welcome customer as a Catholic. She basically agreed that they value all customers but I did not feel reassured that the direction of the company would continue to work for us. If Sarita is going to change what John has added I'll probably move on. I always felt his notes were more than fair to other points of view. I just felt placated by Amy's answer. Even while typing it out, I thought that there was no way Amy would answer truthfully. That in itself is a problem.

[Colleen]

Again, old timer or not, this suggestion is completely unsubstantiated and not reflected in the entirety of what SL offers. Honestly, with all due respect to some of the long-time users (Colleen, you know I heart you), it seems like a gross overreaction to me....I am specifically addressing the "slippery slope" theory.

I kind of agree.

 

I hear you, Lisa x 2. Your questions are valid, and I wish I could provide for you specific ways in which I see SL morphing over time. Alas, much of it is directly related to discussions that have taken place at the non-curriculum SL forums; unless you've been an active participant over the years, I think my explanations will be lost on you. There is an undefinable sense that SL desires to go "back to their roots" (as Sarita put it), e.g. place more emphasis upon a conservative, evangelical outlook.

 

To some degree, I think this is a matter of dollars and sense, as they see it. I believe they underestimate their value among secular and non-conservative and/or non-evangelical homeschoolers. They want to double down and make clear the fact that they are very much evangelical in outlook. And I should note that I don't for a moment think it's all about money. Sarita has a heart for missions; she has a heart for evangelism. I absolutely believe she sees it as her duty to emphasize this in her curriculum, and I don't begrudge her for following her heart.

 

This latest issue about Marshall's books underscores the gradual shift at SL. When John was still at the helm, he interacted on the forums, sharing his thoughts ~ too much, some would argue ~ on all manner of hot topics. As Sarita has said, he often played the devil's advocate, countering conservative Christianity positions on such topics as young-earth creationism and providential history. Those discussions created a sense of openness. They invited a wide array of perspectives. And they conveyed the impression that SL was far "broader", for lack of a better word, than they really were.

 

When John stepped aside, it became increasingly clear that his voice was, after all, just the voice of John (and even at that, perhaps only what John was thinking through at that particular time). It wasn't the voice of Sonlight. As I said earlier, we see that clearly now that even Sarita didn't/doesn't share his opinion of the Marshall books. It is of far more import to her to encourage homeschoolers in their rather traditional roles (thus the "Hannah Keeley" debacle, in which SL tried to form a relationship with, and recommend to us, a Christian, self-professed Super Mom of many). Thus the reminder that the SL forums are first and foremost a place where evangelical Christianity is prioritized. Thus the greater emphasis on praying for those who don't "know Jesus" (this references an addition to the Bible portion of the 2012 Core B). Thus the deluge of WASP-y catalog pics.

 

I've rambled. And likely not answered your questions. It's one little thing after another ~ and yet, I can completely understand why to some, it may seem like nothing. I can not offer you more than I've shared above. Sonlight is dear to my heart, always has been and always will be. If that wasn't the case, I wouldn't be so disappointed to realize that after all, we're not really on the same page. Doesn't mean I won't move on to repeat Core D and Core H this next year, as planned. Doesn't mean I won't enjoy our history & lit adventures. But between what I perceive to be a slippery slope; inevitable poor marketing decisions; and innumerable, never-ending changes, my real commitment to the company is over. I'll happily give my dollars to my local, independent book shop instead.

Edited March 17, 2012 by Colleen

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Colleen, isn't it a trip to realize that SL isn't really changing, but rather that the John Years were probably an aberration??

 

Those of us who came to SL in the years that John was most active are the most shocked and disbelieving of the way SL is currently going. I think we never understood Sarita, or how John was kind of at odds with the rest of SL.

 

I totally agree that it isn't just about the bottom line, or about being allowed at the CHEC. I think Sarita is being more zealous about her true evangelistic beliefs. I base that on what she said in the past about it.

 

Tonight I am putting four high school cores on the credit card. :001_huh:

 

I've thought for awhile that my second-born son would really benefit from SL for high school, even though I'm very happy with TOG for the rest of the boys. But I want to buy SL as I knew it, not as it might look after changes. I'm thankful I own pre-K through Core 7 already.

[Colleen]

Colleen, isn't it a trip to realize that SL isn't really changing, but rather that the John Years were probably an aberration??

 

Those of us who came to SL in the years that John was most active are the most shocked and disbelieving of the way SL is currently going. I think we never understood Sarita, or how John was kind of at odds with the rest of SL.

 

Perfect summation!

[ZooRho]

Colleen, isn't it a trip to realize that SL isn't really changing, but rather that the John Years were probably an aberration??

 

Those of us who came to SL in the years that John was most active are the most shocked and disbelieving of the way SL is currently going. I think we never understood Sarita, or how John was kind of at odds with the rest of SL.

 

I totally agree that it isn't just about the bottom line, or about being allowed at the CHEC. I think Sarita is being more zealous about her true evangelistic beliefs. I base that on what she said in the past about it.

 

Tonight I am putting four high school cores on the credit card. :001_huh:

 

I've thought for awhile that my second-born son would really benefit from SL for high school, even though I'm very happy with TOG for the rest of the boys. But I want to buy SL as I knew it, not as it might look after changes. I'm thankful I own pre-K through Core 7 already.

 

Honestly you don't have to do it all this year. From what they have said the high school cores aren't changing this year. That happened last year so you could spread it out abit

[Just Another Jen]

Colleen, isn't it a trip to realize that SL isn't really changing, but rather that the John Years were probably an aberration??

 

Those of us who came to SL in the years that John was most active are the most shocked and disbelieving of the way SL is currently going. I think we never understood Sarita, or how John was kind of at odds with the rest of SL.

 

I totally agree that it isn't just about the bottom line, or about being allowed at the CHEC. I think Sarita is being more zealous about her true evangelistic beliefs. I base that on what she said in the past about it.

 

Tonight I am putting four high school cores on the credit card. :001_huh:

 

I've thought for awhile that my second-born son would really benefit from SL for high school, even though I'm very happy with TOG for the rest of the boys. But I want to buy SL as I knew it, not as it might look after changes. I'm thankful I own pre-K through Core 7 already.

 

I was thinking of ordering now as well.

[Joy at Home]

I hear you, Lisa x 2. Your questions are valid, and I wish I could provide for you specific ways in which I see SL morphing over time. Alas, much of it is directly related to discussions that have taken place at the non-curriculum SL forums; unless you've been an active participant over the years, I think my explanations will be lost on you. There is an undefinable sense that SL desires to go "back to their roots" (as Sarita put it), e.g. place more emphasis upon a conservative, evangelical outlook.

. . .

 

It's one little thing after another ~ and yet, I can completely understand why to some, it may seem like nothing. I can not offer you more than I've shared above. Sonlight is dear to my heart, always has been and always will be. If that wasn't the case, I wouldn't be so disappointed to realize that after all, we're not really on the same page. Doesn't mean I won't move on to repeat Core D and Core H this next year, as planned. Doesn't mean I won't enjoy our history & lit adventures. But between what I perceive to be a slippery slope; inevitable poor marketing decisions; and innumerable, never-ending changes, my real commitment to the company is over. I'll happily give my dollars to my local, independent book shop instead.

 

Colleen, thank you for trying to verbalize what you feel here. You are right, being active on the SL boards creates another dimension some might not be privy to. I am a member there but don't post often. Regardless, I appreciate that the more invested you are to SL emotionally, the greater your hurt and disappointment. Agree or disagree, those are real feelings and I'm sorry for you.

 

Lisa

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Honestly you don't have to do it all this year. From what they have said the high school cores aren't changing this year. That happened last year so you could spread it out abit

 

I know, Rhoda, but I guess I want a clean break. I don't want to check in with SL every year to hear about (or try to decipher) updates. Yearly heartburn!

[ZooRho]

I know, Rhoda, but I guess I want a clean break. I don't want to check in with SL every year to hear about (or try to decipher) updates. Yearly heartburn!

 

I get it but

you could just do it in Jan next year and not even check.

 

 

I's just a trying to help you out.

[Colleen]

Colleen, thank you for trying to verbalize what you feel here. You are right, being active on the SL boards creates another dimension some might not be privy to. I am a member there but don't post often. Regardless, I appreciate that the more invested you are to SL emotionally, the greater your hurt and disappointment. Agree or disagree, those are real feelings and I'm sorry for you.

 

Thanks. I suppose to an extent I am emotionally invested. That is to say, I give a great deal of consideration to which businesses I support (cooperatives, locally-owned shops, and independently-operated businesses). There's not just thought, but feeling, behind my economic choices. If I learn that the views presented by a company were in fact not representative of that company, yes, that surprises me.

Edited March 17, 2012 by Colleen

[3peasinapod]

I kind of agree. Last year, we were all outraged about the catalog. And rightly so, I thought. :D

 

This year, it's because of a couple of books added to one of the cores and the reformatting of the IG into what looks to me like a much more user-friendly format. Yes, I know they added bible back into the core, but I remember everyone being outraged years ago when they took it out. People were crying that SL was no longer a Christian company.

 

I think people (myself included) just feel so strongly about this curriculum that they have trouble with any changes that are made to it at all. Last year, I bought a full Core from them for the first time ever because they were changing Core 100 and I wanted it to stay the same. In hindsight, that was probably foolish and now I wish I had just waited to make a decision. I also think their forums are terrible and do nothing but stir up controversy. But maybe that's what they want?

 

Lisa

 

I wondered the same thing. One of the things I see is just leaking the information out here and there, doing damage control for that, and then next week something new comes out. Why not just give people everything up front so that there isn't as much speculation? I don't get it.

 

I hear you, Lisa x 2. Your questions are valid, and I wish I could provide for you specific ways in which I see SL morphing over time. Alas, much of it is directly related to discussions that have taken place at the non-curriculum SL forums; unless you've been an active participant over the years, I think my explanations will be lost on you. There is an undefinable sense that SL desires to go "back to their roots" (as Sarita put it), e.g. place more emphasis upon a conservative, evangelical outlook.

 

To some degree, I think this is a matter of dollars and sense, as they see it. I believe they underestimate their value among secular and non-conservative and/or non-evangelical homeschoolers. They want to double down and make clear the fact that they are very much evangelical in outlook. And I should note that I don't for a moment think it's all about money. Sarita has a heart for missions; she has a heart for evangelism. I absolutely believe she sees it as her duty to emphasize this in her curriculum, and I don't begrudge her for following her heart.

 

This latest issue about Marshall's books underscores the gradual shift at SL. When John was still at the helm, he interacted on the forums, sharing his thoughts ~ too much, some would argue ~ on all manner of hot topics. As Sarita has said, he often played the devil's advocate, countering conservative Christianity positions on such topics as young-earth creationism and providential history. Those discussions created a sense of openness. They invited a wide array of perspectives. And they conveyed the impression that SL was far "broader", for lack of a better word, than they really were.

 

When John stepped aside, it became increasingly clear that his voice was, after all, just the voice of John (and even at that, perhaps only what John was thinking through at that particular time). It wasn't the voice of Sonlight. As I said earlier, we see that clearly now that even Sarita didn't/doesn't share his opinion of the Marshall books. It is of far more import to her to encourage homeschoolers in their rather traditional roles (thus the "Hannah Keeley" debacle, in which SL tried to form a relationship with, and recommend to us, a Christian, self-professed Super Mom of many). Thus the reminder that the SL forums are first and foremost a place where evangelical Christianity is prioritized. Thus the greater emphasis on praying for those who don't "know Jesus" (this references an addition to the Bible portion of the 2012 Core B). Thus the deluge of WASP-y catalog pics.

 

I've rambled. And likely not answered your questions. It's one little thing after another ~ and yet, I can completely understand why to some, it may seem like nothing. I can not offer you more than I've shared above. Sonlight is dear to my heart, always has been and always will be. If that wasn't the case, I wouldn't be so disappointed to realize that after all, we're not really on the same page. Doesn't mean I won't move on to repeat Core D and Core H this next year, as planned. Doesn't mean I won't enjoy our history & lit adventures. But between what I perceive to be a slippery slope; inevitable poor marketing decisions; and innumerable, never-ending changes, my real commitment to the company is over. I'll happily give my dollars to my local, independent book shop instead.

 

I really appreciate these thoughts, Colleen. I have been struggling with all the little things adding up, hanging in the middle by wanting to use SL but not agreeing with the changes. I wanted to just use it and be done (lazy I guess), but I realize that, especially as my children grow older, I need to be more proactive in materials. I will have to screen more heavily. I wasn't as emotionally tied to SL, although purusing its materials and schedules when my oldest was 3 helped me to decide to homeschool, but I have had expectations.

 

Anyhow, I'm not always great at conveying my thoughts and stay out of things, but especially your last paragraph has actually summed it all up for me. Maybe I don't make sense :001_huh: but it has given me peace about my own decision to move forward . . . carefully.