bairnmama Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Hello all... I just recently joined the boards and was wondering if someone could help me find a math program that could help my struggling dd 7. We started with Saxon K and 1, then switched to Singapore 1A the middle of this year when I found she still wasn't understanding most of it. She still has trouble recognizing numbers past 13, knowing which is greater or smaller up to 100, even basic addition up to 10. Finding a number on the 100 chart without counting from 1 is pretty much impossible even after working on it for 2 weeks solid. We're both really frustrated and she hides when I even mention math. We tried taking a break from 'math books' and worked with counting, weighted numbers on our balance, computer games and such but nothing seems to be helping. Any suggestions??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abbeyej Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Oh, that sounds so disheartening for both of you! I think you're doing the right thing in setting the books aside for a bit and really working with "real" math. Generally, I'm not so sure about that, but there's absolutely no progress to be made with books until she has a better sense of numbers in the real world. And I think that working with her *daily* with real-world counting of real-world objects is the best start you can give her. Keep doing what you're doing. Play with the manipulatives you have from Saxon K/1. Line up those counting bears and let 'em sit down in the theater and get up to go get popcorn, etc, etc. Set aside some time daily to work on mathematical thinking in that way, playing games, etc -- but by doing that purposefully and consistently, I think you can set aside the books for a while. (I mean, you could do a book every day, but she would hate it, you would be frustrated, and she would continue not to make any progress till she has the foundation of basic number sense.) You might want to check out the book "Family Math" for some more ideas. If you really want a curriculum, consider Miquon or RightStart A... But don't lose heart. Be consistent, use purposeful play, try to build her confidence *and* her understanding. And then when it's time to go back to more traditional book work, she'll be ready (and move much more quickly). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue G in PA Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 It sounds like she just isn't ready, developmentally speaking, for a formal math program, KWIM? Don't worry. FWIW, Singapore doesn't even start their kids on the Singapore Math books until age 8 or 9! I heard this from somebody on my MFW yahoo forum today. That gave ME hope! See, my ds7 just wasn't ready for formal school period this past year and it took me most of the year to realize and be okay with that. Give her time away from the books and just play math games. Uno is good for recognizing numbers, Go Fish w/ number cards, War, etc. Monopoly can help w/ addition (Jr. Monopoly!). Keep it light. Give it a few months, the summer, and start back in Singapore 1A or Saxon 1, whichever you prefer. My ds7 hated Saxon 1 and we switched to MUS for him. For struggling students, MUS is an awesome program, just a bit different in its scope/seq. and approach. Try to relax though. She's still young! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abbeyej Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 ...Singapore doesn't even start their kids on the Singapore Math books until age 8 or 9! I heard this from somebody on my MFW yahoo forum today.... I believe that person was mistaken. Compulsory primary school in Singapore consists of 6 years of schooling beginning at age 6. I believe that's totally immaterial to individual children who may need to begin work later (or earlier) than that. But I've never seen any credible indication that children in Singapore (as a group) used the Singapore Primary books beginning later than age six or seven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
summer Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 When I posted it to the Singapore Math forum, Jenny said that they do not start school until the year they turn 7. Also, they have to pass a entrance exams to get in and spend many many more hours on school than we do. They have 1 math class a day, but also 1 math drill class a day, plus plenty of extra work outside of school. In addition, the series has been rewritten by Singapore Ministries and the version currently in use is a bit less vigorous than the one being purchased by homeschoolers here. http://www.sgbox.com/singaporeeducation.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
summer Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 I wanted to add that Math U See might be a better fit for your child. It is also an excellent program, but approaches things from a more hands on point and such. http://www.mathusee.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiffanyl Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Maybe "Math on the level" would work for you and your daughter. You can work as fast or slow as she needs & it's more of a "real life" way of doing math. The curriculum also addresses how to figure out maturity level for each task and how to proceed. Heres a link~ www.mathonthelevel.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
summer Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Also, see in the link I have included above at sgbox that the maths we purchase as homeschoolers is not what Singapore is using. If you do more research online, you will find that Singapore tracks students, meaning, most children in Singapore never even used the series we have purchased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ummto4 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Try Right Start Math: http://www.rightstartmath.com It's heavy on manipulative and is very good in teaching math concept. The main manipulative is abacus. It's easy to visualize quantity with it. Much easier than using the rod/block like the ones used by math-you-see. Have a look at their website for more info + sampler! They also have a nice forum there. You may also want to join their yahoogroups. We use it in our home. Math is fun fun fun (lots of game). My 6 yo ds thrives with it, and he's not the one who is quick to understand stuff. Dian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacy in NJ Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Hello all... I just recently joined the boards and was wondering if someone could help me find a math program that could help my struggling dd 7. We started with Saxon K and 1, then switched to Singapore 1A the middle of this year when I found she still wasn't understanding most of it. She still has trouble recognizing numbers past 13, knowing which is greater or smaller up to 100, even basic addition up to 10. Finding a number on the 100 chart without counting from 1 is pretty much impossible even after working on it for 2 weeks solid. We're both really frustrated and she hides when I even mention math. We tried taking a break from 'math books' and worked with counting, weighted numbers on our balance, computer games and such but nothing seems to be helping. Any suggestions??? I would use a lot of different munipulatives to teach number sense. Try base ten blocks and cuisenaire rods. For counting and recoginzing numbers to 100, count out lines of 10 blocks and teach counting by 10's. When she can count from 10 to 100 by 10's, pull out the number chart again. Keep working on it. I really liked cuisenarie rods in the early years.:001_smile: http://www.etacuisenaire.com/cuisenairerods/kits.jsp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy in TN Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Hello all... I just recently joined the boards and was wondering if someone could help me find a math program that could help my struggling dd 7. We started with Saxon K and 1, then switched to Singapore 1A the middle of this year when I found she still wasn't understanding most of it. She still has trouble recognizing numbers past 13, knowing which is greater or smaller up to 100, even basic addition up to 10. Finding a number on the 100 chart without counting from 1 is pretty much impossible even after working on it for 2 weeks solid. We're both really frustrated and she hides when I even mention math. We tried taking a break from 'math books' and worked with counting, weighted numbers on our balance, computer games and such but nothing seems to be helping. Any suggestions??? Maybe you could use some Kumon math workbooks for a while. Get her positive and confident. Mandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Try Right Start Math: http://www.rightstartmath.com I'd recommend Right Start as well. Don't be afraid to take it slowly as the most crucial lessons are the early ones which help the child visualize the abacus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Also, see in the link I have included above at sgbox that the maths we purchase as homeschoolers is not what Singapore is using. If you do more research online, you will find that Singapore tracks students, meaning, most children in Singapore never even used the series we have purchased.I can't speak for which materials are used in which track now, but the core Primary Mathematics program -- the one most commonly used here -- was used at all levels. It's the new curriculum that is differentiated. I've also heard that the top tracks are the ones tested for the math contests, but for a country to participate in TIMSS, the tests must be given, or have an equal likelihood of being given, to all students (except in case of excessive hardship, or extremely remote locations), not just those in an advanced track. Singapore's TIMSS ranking under both the old and new curricula reflects well on it's overall math strategy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abbeyej Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 When I posted it to the Singapore Math forum, Jenny said that they do not start school until the year they turn 7. Also, they have to pass a entrance exams to get in... Right. They start first grade when they have turned six within the 12 months prior to the beginning of the school year. It matches up to areas of the US with August or September cut-offs. A child begins Primary 1 at six years old, and turns seven during that calendar year, before beginning Primary 2 (unless they have received a medical exemption to begin school later). According to the Ministry of Education, a child who turns six any time in 2008 begins Primary 1 in January of 2009. It's a different cut-off and start date than we have in the US, but the effect is the same as our states with a cut-off that is roughly the same as the first day of school. At this time, primary education is compulsory and all children in Singapore attend unless they receive an exemption. And yes, the Singapore Primary series we use in the US has been replaced. I don't see how that impacts the discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Indeed Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 I just wanted to 2nd Math on the level. It will allow you to go at her speed, and not overwhelm her. It is all the math you will need until algebra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bairnmama Posted June 13, 2008 Author Share Posted June 13, 2008 Thanks to everyone who chimed in on my question. I have looked at MUS before and wondered if we should try it and will certainly check out the others that were mentioned. We're in the process of trying to get some testing done because of all the problems she's having with reading as well as some other issues. I just know we need to get the numbers straight in her head before we go on to the other 'fun' subjects. We've only made it halfway through our history & grammer stuff because we're still struggling with reading and math so much. This is such a great group and I really appreciate all the help I've received from simply reading others' questions and replies. We'll certainly be hanging around more! Mom to - dd 7: SOTW 1, Singapore 1A, FLL, Headsprout, R&S reading, HWT ds 3: Singapore Earlybird, Headsprout, HWT (so he can be like dd :D) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abbeyej Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 T...I just know we need to get the numbers straight in her head before we go on to the other 'fun' subjects... You know, I really think you're on the right track... I think it's good that you're pursuing some testing at this point (it'll be reassuring if it tells you she just "needs more time", and if that's not what it reveals, you'll have a better idea of how to proceed). And I absolutely think that helping her to understand the numbers in the real world (before on paper) is vital... But I wanted to encourage you not to completely abandon the "fun stuff" in favor of drilling the skills she finds so much challenge right now. She needs something to inspire her, to make the other stuff worthwhile. If there's something about school that she really loves, make sure you continue to feed into that alongside all the hard work you're doing on "the basics". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 But I wanted to encourage you not to completely abandon the "fun stuff" in favor of drilling the skills she finds so much challenge right now. She needs something to inspire her, to make the other stuff worthwhile.:iagree:Much drill can be incorporated into games, especially card games. Right Start uses a lot of games early on, very simple games like war, or Old Maid and Go Fish (both adapted to use 10's bonds instead of matching cards... so if you had a 2, you'd ask for an 8). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bairnmama Posted June 13, 2008 Author Share Posted June 13, 2008 Maybe I should clarify... we didn't cut out all the 'fun'. We have a great HS support group that meets once a week that includes show & tell, Presidential fitness, field trips, beach days, crafts, etc. She's in a homeschool gymnastics class at a local gym and we try to find fascinating books to read together from the library at least once a week as well. I was just talking about the day to day history study, science and such. We cut out our "formal" science study in favor of finding animals in the backyard, making roly poly/cricket habitats, and going to the beach and looking for shells, crabs, etc. and then talking about them. I consider those the 'fun' subjects because my major included art history and chemistry in college...:blush:. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abbeyej Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Oh, I didn't mean I thought you had chained her to a desk to drill reading and math with no moments of fun in her life... ;) I just mean that when kids are facing an uphill battle with the basics of schoolwork, it can be really refreshing to have some subject (that *is* part of "school" in their minds) that really nourishes their soul. That way "school" isn't all about the struggle to move forward in high stakes areas that just aren't clicking -- so there's some aspect of school where they feel competent and joyful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TraceyS/FL Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Your DD sounds like what i struggled with mine. It turns out mine has a genetic issue that causes processing issues that caused the delays. She couldn't count past 10 until last year (she is 9 today), we still struggle with the 19-20-21, 29-30-31 type of thing, but she is SLOWLY getting there. She's still doing MUS PRimer - the pace is better suited for her. I have Alpha here, i'm going to attempt to jump her in it though, but i'm worried about it. Same for reading. She couldn't say/remember the ABC's, she couldn't remember colors (drove her preschool teachers crazy), forget trying to teach her to read. We are doing BJUP Phonics 1 very slow, and it's finally sticking with her. I'm able to now see when a material is a fit - she will get it with it in time - and isn't (the, she's NEVER going to get it, like the Abeka phonics system - so NOT going to work for her ever). But most of all, i've learned a ton of patience and know that her almost 4yo younger sister will pass her up. :grouphug: She will get there - and you will find what works with her. And I totally agree with keeping up with some of the other stuff. We adapt to what she can't read - but she is a sponge for anything animal related and that is the high point of her day! She gets thru the other stuff to get to the "fun" :D Thanks to everyone who chimed in on my question. I have looked at MUS before and wondered if we should try it and will certainly check out the others that were mentioned. We're in the process of trying to get some testing done because of all the problems she's having with reading as well as some other issues. I just know we need to get the numbers straight in her head before we go on to the other 'fun' subjects. We've only made it halfway through our history & grammer stuff because we're still struggling with reading and math so much. This is such a great group and I really appreciate all the help I've received from simply reading others' questions and replies. We'll certainly be hanging around more! Mom to - dd 7: SOTW 1, Singapore 1A, FLL, Headsprout, R&S reading, HWT ds 3: Singapore Earlybird, Headsprout, HWT (so he can be like dd :D) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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