help with phonics/fluency

[Ariston]

So here's the history...

When my son was 3 and 4, he did not know any of his letters. I would try to teach him one, and 10 seconds later he would act like he'd never seen it before. He went to pre-K at 4 and learned all of his letters fairly easily, using HWT. Then, I would try to teach him how to put letters together, like c-a-t and he did not get it AT ALL.

 

When he was 5, I HSed Kindergarten. He did fine with phonics worksheets (identifying beginning, middle and ending sounds, etc.) We started 100 Easy Lessons when he was 6, I believe, and it was like a miracle. That method really clicked with him and he was able to actually read words for the first time in his life! We got about half way through the book and it just got way too hard for him. I switched to Phonics Pathways, starting at the beginning. He has progressed well through that. (We're more than half way through, don't remember exactly...)

 

BUT now we're at a point where he has learned a fair amount of phonics but his reading is just not 'taking off.' He reads with nearly 100% accuracy, but S-L-O-W-L-Y. A friend of mine who is a reading specialist said he is mildly dyslexic and that I need to change my approach. She said I should stop trying to forge ahead with phonics, and need to back up all the way to CVC and not move on until he is reading fluently at each stage. Right now he's reading CVC and CVCC words at about 30 WPM. So even though he can read a word like 'classroom' correctly, he still sounds out 'C-A-T' most of the time.

 

Needless to say he is frustrated and does not like reading becasue it is soooo hard for him. As far as fluency goes, he has a good memory and does not have much of a problem remembering sentences even though he reads so slow. He also reads with the correct emotions and pauses, once he has struggled through a sentence and goes back to piece it together. What he is lacking is SPEED and AUTOMATICITY even on small words. The only words which he is quick to read are words that he has learned as sight words.

 

Also, he loves being read to, and is able to listen to hard books. (Just finished Beowulf, unabridged, and now is doing the Hobbit.)

 

So my question is...are there any books or inexpensive programs that can help me? I don't want to try another phonics book if it will be just more of the same. He is able to retain for the most part what he learns in PP, and reads accurately, he just doesn't do it easily or fluidly. However I don't mind starting again with another phonics program if it has some fluency work built in to it, or some advice on how to build WPM. My friend gave me some advice, like to use timed readings and repeat readings...but I'm having trouble structuring our reading lessons and feel lost. (I tend to prefer open and go programs.)

 

Which programs/books help with speed/automaticity?

 

ETA: Forgot to mention we are also on about lesson 12 of AAS1, which he really likes. He seems to have an easy time so far of applying the phonics rules to spelling, but have not seen any benefit to his reading yet...

TIA!!!

Elena

Edited February 5, 2012 by epignone

[momsuz123]

Well, I'll throw in my 2 cents. I am sure you will get some great advice, but one bit of advice I have learned is don't jump to a "label" like dyslexic too early. There is a reason kids don't get tested for dyslexia until later, not all children start reading at the same age, pace, etc.

Also, my middle dd is currently reading on grade level, but it. is. slow. She also was told once (by some health professionals) that she was at "great risk" for a reading disability. I even had her meet with a friend who is a reading specialist. Long story short, I had her eyes get checked out at a vision therapy center, and OMG, the poor kid has a condition where both eyes, intermittently drift out. Tough to read, or do much of any schoolwork with that going on. She starts vision therapy on Monday. I told the reading specialist that we saw and she is so glad we are doing this. She said over the years, she has seen countless kids who were labeled with a reading disability when it was a vision problem causing the sx. Good luck with all, I hope others can lend you some other help. Maybe my dd does have an underlying reading disability, but first I need to get her eyes corrected.

[Ariston]

Well, I'll throw in my 2 cents. I am sure you will get some great advice, but one bit of advice I have learned is don't jump to a "label" like dyslexic too early. There is a reason kids don't get tested for dyslexia until later, not all children start reading at the same age, pace, etc.

Also, my middle dd is currently reading on grade level, but it. is. slow. She also was told once (by some health professionals) that she was at "great risk" for a reading disability. I even had her meet with a friend who is a reading specialist. Long story short, I had her eyes get checked out at a vision therapy center, and OMG, the poor kid has a condition where both eyes, intermittently drift out. Tough to read, or do much of any schoolwork with that going on. She starts vision therapy on Monday. I told the reading specialist that we saw and she is so glad we are doing this. She said over the years, she has seen countless kids who were labeled with a reading disability when it was a vision problem causing the sx. Good luck with all, I hope others can lend you some other help. Maybe my dd does have an underlying reading disability, but first I need to get her eyes corrected.

 

Thanks for the reply! I agree with you about labels...I believe everyone is on a spectrum, so a label is arbitrary to a large extent. I guess my friend's point was that with the amount of phonics instruction he's had, 80% of kids would be reading.

 

After reading other posts on this site i am thinking of having his vision checked but the nearest developmental eye doctor is 2 hours away. So even if they recommended therapy, we wouldn't be able to do it. Although i guess it would still be good to know.

 

Elena

[threeofakind]

I agree with not making assumptions too soon about dyslexia. I was a reading specialist and my son did not read fluently until 8. I agree too, that maybe just work on fluency- and some people do not read out loud well. I am not too familiar with programs for just fluency that are made for home school, but you can look into the 6 minute solution; I have never used it but have heard great things about it. It is made for the school setting but may look into it anyway. You can always have him read a passage up to 4 times- use funny voices, serious voices and maybe 'perform' a piece. If possible have him record himself and listen back until he likes what he hears. Maybe he can choose some of his favorite readings he's read before and ask him to read it again- doing the voices or perform, etc., just ways to get him read it over without getting too bored. Good luck!:001_smile:

[MistyMountain]

I'm not sure but that sounds just like dd so I will be watching this. She struggled learning letters, then struggled with blending. 100 easy lesson got her blending but she forgets words she just read and reads slowly and sound sounds out everything. She got stuck halfway through 100 easy lessons. I'm not sure where to go from here. I know it could just be her age but because she really struggled with learning letters and forgets things she just saw I want to stay proactive in case it is something. I really wish more AAR levles were out because I think that would help but level one just seems too simple to just use that not knowing when the levels beyond level 2 will be out.

Edited February 5, 2012 by MistyMountain

[Nart]

Funnix is by the same author of 100 easy lessons and you can download it for free the next week or so. It is like 100 easy lessons except the prompts are spoken by a voice on the computer. You can find it on Funnix.com

[MistyMountain]

DD got stuck in funnix too. I thought about trying it again but using the advice in the teachers guide about increasing fluency by redoing lessons they had trouble with. It also advised to go back 3-4 lessons and do the reading passage if they aren't reading fluently so they don't have it memorized and using that for additional practice. I am not sure if that will be enough but I was going to try. I bet he would place in a high lesson based on his accuracy but he wouldn't be fluent so I am not sure where you would place him. Maybe it would be helpful to just do the story lessons with him.

Edited February 5, 2012 by MistyMountain

[Tigger]

With DS7, in time AAS has helped his reading skill - it takes time and patience though, as I've learned as he's learned to read.

 

I did step back this year and start again and plugged away through Horizon's Phonics with DS....starting again with CVC, then CCVC & CVCC words and yes, we stayed on those words a long time, to gain confidence and fluency.

 

We spent months reviewing flashcards, reading aloud, and doing reading comprehension sheets I created with words he knew.

 

Then when he was reading pretty fast and fluently, we moved on, did a few lessons and stayed put, practicing again for weeks; reached fluency and moved on again. It was slow but steady - and then, a month or so ago, something between AAS 2 and the phonics, it clicked - with the phonics lessons the pace has picked up nicely, we're moving along pretty quickly now since he's picking things up at a good pace - I'm ready to slow down at any point we need to, but he's finally! getting it and reading so much better than he did when we started this year.

 

Every single day - Sunday - Saturday - we read aloud, him to me, me to him, us taking turns.....at least 30-minutes, with a timer. Then every night he reads to his dad for 20-minutes more.....I am seriously starting to think it's the time he's been putting in reading that's had a lot to do with his progression this year - practice, practice, practice!

[creekmom]

Victory Drill Book is an excellent way to improve speed/automaticity. You can use the same pages with K-8th grade. !st page is simple with short a, three letter words. Last page has more difficult words like affectionate and convenience. A 1st grader should be able to read (work up to reading) 40 words per minute. All my kids have loved Victory Drill Book. I purchased a small treasure chest and stocked it with dollar store toys/treats. Whenever they reach their goal for a certain page, they get a prize. You can read about it at Rainbow Resource: http://rainbowresource.com/product/sku/000111/e30addcf1874e72d1fe5b4a7

[Bloggermom]

Why not try Explode the Code? This has worked really well for my son who didn't do so well with CLE LTR.

[Kuovonne]

She said I should stop trying to forge ahead with phonics, and need to back up all the way to CVC and not move on until he is reading fluently at each stage. Right now he's reading CVC and CVCC words at about 30 WPM.

 

I wouldn't go back to CVC words. I think that would be too frustrating for him. He's capable of reading and understanding far more complex material than you can get in CVC readers. Since he's decoding more complex words with near 100% accuracy, he needs to build fluency, not go back to simplier words.

 

My friend gave me some advice, like to use timed readings and repeat readings.

 

I agree with the repeated readings. You can do repeated readings with any text or book. Just have him read and re-read the same short story or passage until he can read it fluenty. You'll probably notice an improvement the 2nd or 3rd reading. Start out with short, easy stories that you know he will be able to read. Then gradually increase the length and difficulty. If the passages are short and he is up to it, you can have him do a repeated reading right after the initial reading. Or you can have him repeat the story on subsequent days.

 

I have my DD do repeated readings with the McGuffy readers, and it works well for her. Each story is only 1-2 pages long. Every day she reads 1 lesson in the reader. Sometimes it's the same lesson for 2-4 days.

 

Regular practice every day is also important.

[MeganW]

Well, I'll throw in my 2 cents. I am sure you will get some great advice, but one bit of advice I have learned is don't jump to a "label" like dyslexic too early. There is a reason kids don't get tested for dyslexia until later, not all children start reading at the same age, pace, etc.

Also, my middle dd is currently reading on grade level, but it. is. slow. She also was told once (by some health professionals) that she was at "great risk" for a reading disability. I even had her meet with a friend who is a reading specialist. Long story short, I had her eyes get checked out at a vision therapy center, and OMG, the poor kid has a condition where both eyes, intermittently drift out. Tough to read, or do much of any schoolwork with that going on. She starts vision therapy on Monday. I told the reading specialist that we saw and she is so glad we are doing this. She said over the years, she has seen countless kids who were labeled with a reading disability when it was a vision problem causing the sx. Good luck with all, I hope others can lend you some other help. Maybe my dd does have an underlying reading disability, but first I need to get her eyes corrected.

 

This sounds so much like our story. THREE out of my 4 need/are getting VT. (2 are in, one is on waiting list). The 2 who have been in VT since Aug both took off reading, within a week of each other. The one who hasn't started VT yet is also the one who isn't reading yet.

 

The one who hasn't started VT yet was my most advanced throughout life, until Aug. Now she is behind the others in every area across the board - reading, hand-eye coordination, handwriting, dancing (has to do with body awareness) etc.

 

VT has made an AMAZING difference in our lives. At 2 hours away, it would not be convenient, but given the improvement we have seen, I would do it if I were you. If nothing else, go get the evaluation. They may tell you nothing is wrong, they may say he is low in one area and give you some ways to work on it, or he may be so bad off that VT is the only option. Regardless, it will give you more info.

 

By the way, all my kiddos had been cleared by a well-respected opthomologist. Numerous times - I kept taking them back and saying "I know you think their eyes are fine, but something is wrong!" Turns out they can force their eyes to focus long enough to pass an eye test, but can't sustain the focus, which is why I was seeing all these weird symptoms that the optho wasn't seeing.

[Ariston]

I did step back this year and start again and plugged away through Horizon's Phonics with DS....starting again with CVC, then CCVC & CVCC words and yes, we stayed on those words a long time, to gain confidence and fluency.

 

We spent months reviewing flashcards, reading aloud, and doing reading comprehension sheets I created with words he knew.

 

Then when he was reading pretty fast and fluently, we moved on, did a few lessons and stayed put, practicing again for weeks; reached fluency and moved on again. It was slow but steady - and then, a month or so ago, something between AAS 2 and the phonics, it clicked - with the phonics lessons the pace has picked up nicely, we're moving along pretty quickly now since he's picking things up at a good pace - I'm ready to slow down at any point we need to, but he's finally! getting it and reading so much better than he did when we started this year.

 

Every single day - Sunday - Saturday - we read aloud, him to me, me to him, us taking turns.....at least 30-minutes, with a timer. Then every night he reads to his dad for 20-minutes more.....I am seriously starting to think it's the time he's been putting in reading that's had a lot to do with his progression this year - practice, practice, practice!

 

I'm thinking this will be the path I take as well...I hope I see the results you have. I've already noticed some improvement in his fluency with going back to simpler words and stories. Today he was actually reading most CVC words autmatically instead of sounding them out, so that was a huge improvement. I've also realized we need to practice a lot more. Its a bit of a catch-22...since reading is so painful, we avoid it; and because we avoid it, he's not improving quickly and its painful! So I think I need to make it much more central and make sure that even if we only get one thing done, its reading. (Before, that 'one thing' would have been math.)

 

 

Thanks for the advice everyone...I'll look into the resources mentioned.

 

Elena

[ElizabethB]

:grouphug:

 

Some children need a lot more repetition than others.

 

For a fun way to build up that repetition, you can play my phonics concentration game:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Phonics/concentrationgam.html

 

You can also try some of the resources on my how to tutor page. They syllable division exercises might be a good way to practice the basics while still working on simpler things.

[Tigger]

I'm thinking this will be the path I take as well...I hope I see the results you have. I've already noticed some improvement in his fluency with going back to simpler words and stories. Today he was actually reading most CVC words autmatically instead of sounding them out, so that was a huge improvement. I've also realized we need to practice a lot more. Its a bit of a catch-22...since reading is so painful, we avoid it; and because we avoid it, he's not improving quickly and its painful! So I think I need to make it much more central and make sure that even if we only get one thing done, its reading. (Before, that 'one thing' would have been math.)

 

 

Thanks for the advice everyone...I'll look into the resources mentioned.

 

Elena

 

One of the things I did with his reading practice was to include things that are super easy, things on his level, and things that are a challenge - above his level.

 

Our reading typically starts with something on level, then we move to something a bit harder - his challenge (which months ago might have only had a couple of harder words, then slowly became next level above where he was reading now) - then something below level, to end with confidence and success.

 

When we first stepped back and started reading again with CVC, CCVC, and CVCC words, I used phonetically controlled readers until he was confident and doing really well with them.

 

At the same time, as his phonics lessons, we continued to move along and introduce everything and do just word lists on the white board that day and simple sentences with the new words. That way, when he was ready to move forward with the books, we reviewed the rules he'd been introduced to so it wasn't brand new and he'd have a clue. But, at that point, reading continued with phonetically controlled readers, until we got through the various sets I have.

 

Somewhere around the R-controlled vowels we moved to include leveled readers - I went onto the Scholastic website and looked up every book I had that looked like it would be a good book for him to read and the leveled readers I have. I put the letter and grade equivalent on a small sticky note so I'd know the level of the book (ie. E, 1.3; F, 1.5, etc.)....then I put them into level order, in baskets, so I could start to grab books to read that were on level, above level and below level each day. Once a basket was finished, it moved to the end and I put the next level in it to use as the challenge level for him.

 

So, we used both leveled readers and lots and lots of other books we already had - Dr. Seuss, our history and science living books, picture books, etc.

 

ETA: One of the things I also did for a few months was "To, With, By"....that is, I'd read whatever we were doing to him, then we'd read it together, then he'd read it to me.....that gave him two opportunities to see and hear the book before attempting it by himself. I was tempted to stop when I realized he could memorize much of it - but continued on and I think that also helped a lot - for a few months, nothing he was reading new was cold, but helped along and I think it did help with his confidence level. We no longer do that, except with the challenge above where he is now - and then, I just read through sometimes, then it's his turn. We also now take turns with pages since many of the things he's reading are much longer and he likes us "sharing" the reading.

 

It's taken months and months of 30-minutes during the day and 20-minutes before bed of reading aloud - but he's now at grade level for reading and doesn't sound out everything anymore, some words, yes, but the vast majority flow as he reads, so he's gained some significant fluency this year. I don't know if he'll ever "love" reading - I can only hope - but in the last couple of weeks, he's taken to, on his own, reading books to his baby brother.....makes my heart smile.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Tigger

[kitten18]

Random thoughts:

 

-Do you play Bag the Bugs from PP? That's a fun way to get more practice with CVC words.

 

-I would definitely play Elizabeth's concentration game. Very fun.:D

 

-I like Reading Pathways a lot, it was really great for DD. I also took phrases and sentences from PP and made my own pyramids in Word.

[Princess Peach]

I would add in Reading Pathways and also some 1st or 2nd grade readers from the library. My DS8 is doing PP and can read words in context much more fluently than he can lists of words. We've added in Henry & Mudge, Frog & Toad, etc. It has really helped.

[momofabcd]

I would add in Reading Pathways and also some 1st or 2nd grade readers from the library. My DS8 is doing PP and can read words in context much more fluently than he can lists of words. We've added in Henry & Mudge, Frog & Toad, etc. It has really helped.

Reading Pathways is what I was about to mention :) Also, you could do repeated readings with him. Have him read the same story 4 days in a row. The shorter the better.

[Tanikit]

My daughter is a little younger than your child but we also had to work through fluency issues lately and will have to again possibly a few times as her reading level advances. Because she is younger I got her to read through nursery rhymes as they have a rhythm to them that lends itself to fluent reading - the same can be said of reading songs for older children. She would read the nursery rhyme in the morning as practice for reading it to her Dad when he came home. He thought she may have memorised it so tested her on individual words and she knew them all out of context too.

 

I also let her read books that she had heard many times and she read books multiple times too though she isnt very fond of doing this. Her fluency improved within a week and I only see her reverting to slow word for word reading now when the book is slightly too difficult for her. I also used stories with many exclamation marks and direct speech in them and if she read it slowly I asked how the character might actually say the lines and got her to repeat it with expression.

 

I also agree that you probably should not go back to basic cvc readers as these books are usually not the most exciting reading and can frustrate a child who can read further than this. Rather go for slightly easier books but not necessarily phonetically based than he can read now and repeat them often.

[amazzie]

Your son sounds extremely like my son. I have just started Dancing Bears with him. I hope it helps! Here's the link. http://www.prometheantrust.org/

[MerryAtHope]

After reading other posts on this site i am thinking of having his vision checked but the nearest developmental eye doctor is 2 hours away. So even if they recommended therapy, we wouldn't be able to do it. Although i guess it would still be good to know.

 

Elena

 

You never know. My son's office was 2.5 hours away, but they really worked with us and sent detailed sheets for us to do the therapy at home. We went to the office once a month. It really worked out well and was a huge benefit to my son.

 

I agree, though, that 7 is young for a dyslexia label. AAS made a big difference too, after we were through a couple of levels.

 

Merry :-)

[Ariston]

One of the things I did with his reading practice was to include things that are super easy, things on his level, and things that are a challenge - above his level.

 

Our reading typically starts with something on level, then we move to something a bit harder - his challenge (which months ago might have only had a couple of harder words, then slowly became next level above where he was reading now) - then something below level, to end with confidence and success.

 

When we first stepped back and started reading again with CVC, CCVC, and CVCC words, I used phonetically controlled readers until he was confident and doing really well with them.

 

At the same time, as his phonics lessons, we continued to move along and introduce everything and do just word lists on the white board that day and simple sentences with the new words. That way, when he was ready to move forward with the books, we reviewed the rules he'd been introduced to so it wasn't brand new and he'd have a clue. But, at that point, reading continued with phonetically controlled readers, until we got through the various sets I have.

 

Somewhere around the R-controlled vowels we moved to include leveled readers - I went onto the Scholastic website and looked up every book I had that looked like it would be a good book for him to read and the leveled readers I have. I put the letter and grade equivalent on a small sticky note so I'd know the level of the book (ie. E, 1.3; F, 1.5, etc.)....then I put them into level order, in baskets, so I could start to grab books to read that were on level, above level and below level each day. Once a basket was finished, it moved to the end and I put the next level in it to use as the challenge level for him.

 

So, we used both leveled readers and lots and lots of other books we already had - Dr. Seuss, our history and science living books, picture books, etc.

 

ETA: One of the things I also did for a few months was "To, With, By"....that is, I'd read whatever we were doing to him, then we'd read it together, then he'd read it to me.....that gave him two opportunities to see and hear the book before attempting it by himself. I was tempted to stop when I realized he could memorize much of it - but continued on and I think that also helped a lot - for a few months, nothing he was reading new was cold, but helped along and I think it did help with his confidence level. We no longer do that, except with the challenge above where he is now - and then, I just read through sometimes, then it's his turn. We also now take turns with pages since many of the things he's reading are much longer and he likes us "sharing" the reading.

 

It's taken months and months of 30-minutes during the day and 20-minutes before bed of reading aloud - but he's now at grade level for reading and doesn't sound out everything anymore, some words, yes, but the vast majority flow as he reads, so he's gained some significant fluency this year. I don't know if he'll ever "love" reading - I can only hope - but in the last couple of weeks, he's taken to, on his own, reading books to his baby brother.....makes my heart smile.

 

thanks, more great ideas!

Elena

[Mama Anna]

:grouphug:

 

Some children need a lot more repetition than others.

 

For a fun way to build up that repetition, you can play my phonics concentration game:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Phonics/concentrationgam.html

 

You can also try some of the resources on my how to tutor page. They syllable division exercises might be a good way to practice the basics while still working on simpler things.

 

My dd5 is also struggling with fluency - this game sounds like just a really good thing for her - thanks so much ElizabethB! (This isn't the first time I've appreciated your advice. :))

 

Mama Anna

[Ariston]

:grouphug:

 

Some children need a lot more repetition than others.

 

For a fun way to build up that repetition, you can play my phonics concentration game:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Phonics/concentrationgam.html

 

You can also try some of the resources on my how to tutor page. They syllable division exercises might be a good way to practice the basics while still working on simpler things.

 

You know i'm not terribly spontaneous...I think I need to schedule in a game day, like every Friday. I'll try out your game tomorrow,and also add the PP games into the mix. Thanks!

 

**

 

For anyone else who was following this thread for recommendations, I found another resource that has helped.... freereading.net. They appear to have an entire reading program for free including video lessons, but I didn't look into it too much. I used one of their decodable passages for his repeated reading this week. They are the perfect level for him and not too babyish. Also I love that they have a picture that can be folded over. After four days he read the whole thing in 55 seconds (about 70 wpm) so needless to say we are both very encouraged. The method I used was something I found on the abecedarian website: I read it once to him, then we took turns reading every other word, then every other sentence, and finally he reads it to me.

 

Thanks all for the advice and encouragement!

Elena

[WIS0320]

http://www.amazon.com/Reading-Pathways-Exercises-Improve-Jossey-Bass/dp/0787992895/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1328797230&sr=8-1

 

This is a good one. We've used it here or there as my daughter's frequency has increased and it gives good decoding strategies.

 

For my 6 year old it really became a matter of marrying phonics with some sight words. I use the Dolch/Fry lists, mark them to show long/short vowel sound, separate the syllables, etc. so they are easier for her to read immediately and then as she gets more proficient at remembering the word we use cards with the words on them and no markings. If she struggles to remember how to pronounce the word I simply flip the card and let her see it with markings.

 

FWIW, I use PR markings. Just getting her competent with the most common sight words in early readers while also using phonics has increased her fluency dramatically in the last few months. It could also just be that she was ready as she is only 6.5 years old. Hard to know!