Fine line between challenging and pushing...

[kristinannie]

My son is almost 6 and we started 1st grade this month. I am trying to walk the fine line between challenging him and pushing him. He is very lazy when it comes to learning. BTW, I know he is only 5. :lol: He gets very bored when something is too easy, but gets very frustrated if he misses even one problem. He starts calling himself stupid. I know this is perfectionism because I have been there!

 

He is doing very well in SM1a and in Miquon. It is slightly challenging for him, but he rarely misses a problem unless it is a careless error. I don't know what pace to follow for math. This is definitely his highest level subject. I don't want him to get bored, but I don't want to push him either KWIM?

 

He has also picked up reading really quickly. I have him reading easy readers from the library right now and finishing up the MCP readers to gain confidence. He also does ETC, but it is definitely review (but the review is good for him and he isn't bored). We learn all new concepts using a white board with magnetic letters and Struggling Reader games.

 

He can't get enough read alouds, science and history. I have had to beef things up for him, but it has been a lot of fun.

 

I don't want to burn him out, but I don't want to bore him to death and have him get accustomed to laziness (this really happened in pre-K because everything was so boring to him, but he became used to everything just being way too easy). How do you walk this line with your accelerated learners?

[Guest]

good question. I have no advice.

[Ester Maria]

This is something you learn by trial and error with each of your children. There is no recipe. :)

[JenneinCA]

It is hard. The line moves, sometimes daily or even hourly.

 

And just because the line was in one spot for Child A has no bearing on where the line might be for Child B or Child C.

[Embassy]

Who knows?:tongue_smilie: I try to challenge, but not for every subject. Some subjects I focus on engagement with a little challenge thrown in from time to time.

 

For math I do multiple levels. Maybe you can read living books on topics above his current Singapore level while continuing with Singapore. That approach has worked well for my kids.

[go_go_gadget]

It is hard. The line moves, sometimes daily or even hourly.

 

And just because the line was in one spot for Child A has no bearing on where the line might be for Child B or Child C.

 

^^^This. I also find myself adjusting the pace during times of rapid acceleration, and then feeling like we're getting behind when they need to coast for a bit, even though both are working well above grade level. I just get used to the "woosh!" and then I have remember how to go slower for a bit. The progression is non-linear.

[jenbrdsly]

It is hard. The line moves, sometimes daily or even hourly.

 

And just because the line was in one spot for Child A has no bearing on where the line might be for Child B or Child C.

 

 

This is SO TRUE!!!!

 

Our situation can quickly move from "I'm not sure if I want to do that," to "I must to this, all of it, and all of it perfectly, right now!!!!" That's not so great either.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

This is something I have struggled with from the beginning. My son is now 10 and I can't say that I have a better grasp on it. :lol:

 

:iagree:I feel the same way about my 10yo dd.

[blondeviolin]

Who knows?:tongue_smilie: I try to challenge, but not for every subject. Some subjects I focus on engagement with a little challenge thrown in from time to time.

 

For math I do multiple levels. Maybe you can read living books on topics above his current Singapore level while continuing with Singapore. That approach has worked well for my kids.

 

I agree with this. For example, my 5yo is working through grade 2 readers and they are WAY too easy, but they are confidence building and fun, so we are doing it.

 

FWIW, it's harder for me to find the line with math instruction.

[nov05mama]

This is something I have struggled with from the beginning and I can't say that I have a better grasp on it. :lol:

 

:iagree: We are just finishing up 1st Grade and I am still struggling with finding that balance.

[quark]

It is hard. The line moves, sometimes daily or even hourly.

 

And just because the line was in one spot for Child A has no bearing on where the line might be for Child B or Child C.

 

Agree with everyone and especially with the above quote.

 

What you describe is something I commonly see among the 5-7yo boys I know, even the very high ability ones. I was told that around 7.5-8.5, something happens, and this is usually described as the light bulb moment. It's as if something suddenly clicks and the fog clears. What we think of "laziness" is transformed into higher motivation and less whining or dawdling (although in our home, the daydreaming is still a chronic issue). Note that I'm only painting a general picture based on what I've seen and observed and heard from parents of boys.

 

Here is an approximate idea of what happens in our home. I don't think I will ever find the perfect solution but this is close to what works for us:

 

I choose subjects and books based almost completely on my son's interests (I'm fortunate that his interests are quite academic). This really helps reduce some of the dawdling and resistance towards working hard.

 

After 5+ years, I can now tell quite clearly when my son is bored. He becomes cranky, avoids the book, mutters under his breath, dull expression, no light in the eyes, and of course, the outright and literal yawning.

 

OK, so when he's bored, I go to the next level to 2-3 levels up. His eyes light up, there's increased energy and motivation to work. Depending on the subject, this will last for anything from a day or week to a year. I adjust the levels as we go, based on his ability to understand, his opinion of how well he thinks he's learning, and body language signs listed above. I usually do not need to push him to learn these subjects because the subject is his choice, he is interested and willing to learn and the books are written just a little above understanding level so there's the right amount of challenge and plenty of good aha moments.

 

Every year, there is one subject my husband will choose after consulting him. This subject will be more challenging than the rest but is chosen because he has demonstrated good understanding of the basic concepts and given time and application, he should be able to easily rise to the challenge.

 

If he becomes very frustrated, says something like "it's too hard", "I really can't understand this", "I'm not good enough for this" and so on, becomes teary etc, we put it on the back-burner for a week or so (this is when we know we might have pushed a little too hard). And then we try again. Usually by the end of the week, he has it down. Sometimes, it's not the concept, but the output that is the issue. I simply solve that by splitting the output requirements over several days or several sessions within the same day.

 

This is long. Sorry! Hope it's useful!

[nmoira]

I have an 80% rule in math (and an approximation in other subjects): If a child is consistently scoring better than about 80%, the material is not sufficiently challenging. I want my kids to experience failure but have the confidence to regroup. I was an A student accustomed to the experiencing "success" without effort, and it warped my perception of knowledge and achievement. College was a surprise, let me tell you. :tongue_smilie:

[kristinannie]

I have an 80% rule in math (and an approximation in other subjects): If a child is consistently scoring better than about 80%, the material is not sufficiently challenging. I want my kids to experience failure but have the confidence to regroup. I was an A student accustomed to the experiencing "success" without effort, and it warped my perception of knowledge and achievement. College was a surprise, let me tell you. :tongue_smilie:

 

 

This is exactly what I went through. I realized one day that I didn't need to try so I just stopped trying. Then I hit college... :banghead: I want to keep things challenging enough for him to have to put some mental effort into things, but not so challenging that he hates learning. I like the 80% rule. I was thinking of not doing every.single.problem in SM1a if he is just getting it easily. He doesn't need tons of practice. Then again, I get scared that he is going to miss something!

[kristinannie]

Oh, and by the way, it scares me and comforts me that you all still haven't figured the line out. I have been taking it day by day, pulling back or pushing as I deem necessary. I don't feel totally comfortable with that, but I guess that seems to be the consensus!

[Embassy]

I have an 80% rule in math (and an approximation in other subjects): If a child is consistently scoring better than about 80%, the material is not sufficiently challenging. I want my kids to experience failure but have the confidence to regroup. I was an A student accustomed to the experiencing "success" without effort, and it warped my perception of knowledge and achievement. College was a surprise, let me tell you. :tongue_smilie:

 

I had the opposite happen. I worked hard during elementary school/high school and as a late bloomer I tended to find college easier than my previous years in schooling. Graduate school wasn't more difficult than college either. I think it was because I was taking classes in an area of interest only. I've found that interest and ease of learning tend to go together.

[nmoira]

This is exactly what I went through. I realized one day that I didn't need to try so I just stopped trying. Then I hit college... :banghead: I want to keep things challenging enough for him to have to put some mental effort into things, but not so challenging that he hates learning. I like the 80% rule. I was thinking of not doing every.single.problem in SM1a if he is just getting it easily. He doesn't need tons of practice. Then again, I get scared that he is going to miss something!

Good luck -- it's going to be an adventure. :001_smile:

 

Just a note that I don't include "self-contained" or trivial topics such as math facts under the rule. For these, perfect is a reasonable (eventual) expectation.

[boscopup]

He is very lazy when it comes to learning. BTW, I know he is only 5.

 

He's not lazy. He's 5. A 5 year old typically isn't expected to do a lot of work. I think the #1 thing we have to remember is what age our child is and constantly ask ourselves if our child is really developmentally and emotionally ready for what we're asking them to do. Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't. So yes, you know he's 5, yet you're still describing him as "lazy", which really isn't accurate for a 5 year old during 1st grade work. ;) I expect a 5 year old to spend 45 minutes to an hour on school work in a day, and I don't expect them to want to work really hard. That comes with maturity.

 

He is doing very well in SM1a and in Miquon. It is slightly challenging for him, but he rarely misses a problem unless it is a careless error. I don't know what pace to follow for math. This is definitely his highest level subject. I don't want him to get bored, but I don't want to push him either KWIM?

This is why I'm really glad I didn't have the chance to accelerate my oldest until he was in first grade and 6.5 years old. He was more mature and ready for the acceleration. At 5, he wouldn't have wanted to work hard enough to work above grade level, yet he was bored with K math in school. Thankfully, school was enough of a "party" that year that he enjoyed it anyway. It was first grade where the party aspect was gone and he was really bored. And I still had to constantly evaluate what he was doing and walk that very fine line between boring and too challenging. The line has gotten bigger now that he's older. It's a BIT easier to find the line. ;)

 

He can't get enough read alouds, science and history. I have had to beef things up for him, but it has been a lot of fun.

 

I'd probably focus on this for a while to avoid burnout. Maybe even not do math everyday (I know that's sacrilege, but at 5, that's OK!).

 

Who knows?:tongue_smilie: I try to challenge, but not for every subject. Some subjects I focus on engagement with a little challenge thrown in from time to time.

 

:iagree: At this young age, I'm not challenging my son in every single subject. I'm not giving him "baby" work, but I'm keeping some things easy, yet not too boring. Again, now that he's older, it's a bit easier to find that level of work. At 5, that would have been near impossible, I think. :tongue_smilie:

 

A good example is grammar. First and second grade grammar were way too easy. Even some 3rd grade grammar was too easy. I found FLL3 which he liked reasonably well, and it has some stuff he didn't already know, and it doesn't dwell on one topic forever or review a topic ad nauseum (note that FLL1 *does* do the latter :lol:). FLL3 is pretty easy for him. He could do something more challenging, but at the same time, I thought, "Why?" He's not physically writing much yet, so why bother trying to do more challenging grammar? We're doing grammar, but I'm not worrying about it being challenging.

 

I mostly challenge him in math, and we've had to skip things here and there and cut down on problems to find the level "where he's at". That took us the entire last year. Now we have found that level and he's working very comfortably - not too hard, not too easy - just right. He's still going faster than one grade level per year, but it's not 3-4 in a year. :tongue_smilie:

 

For physical writing, I have him working at grade level, because physically, he's just not ready to do a lot of writing, and that's totally ok. He has plenty of time learn paragraphs and essays and such. His thoughts are excellent, but he's just not ready to put those thoughts onto paper himself.

 

I just constantly reevaluate what we're doing, pay attention to how he's responding. It's tough. You can do it though! :D

 

Also, for developing work ethic, focus more on household chores and rather than academics. If he picks up toys when you ask him to, clears the dining room table after a meal, helps load/unload the dishwasher, and does other age appropriate chores without complaint, awesome!

[KAR120C]

I have an 80% rule in math (and an approximation in other subjects): If a child is consistently scoring better than about 80%, the material is not sufficiently challenging. I want my kids to experience failure but have the confidence to regroup. I was an A student accustomed to the experiencing "success" without effort, and it warped my perception of knowledge and achievement. College was a surprise, let me tell you. :tongue_smilie:

I'm sure it's not right for every single kid (what is??) but 80% has been an excellent benchmark for us -- hard enough to get some wrong, but not so hard it's frustrating.

[Rosie]

I decided at the beginning of last school year that my oldest (and now my middle, too) needed to learn to work through frustration and not quit when things get hard. I didn't want her to go through childhood without ever being challenged and then melt when things actually get hard in the teenage or adult years.

 

So, I wrote at the top of our white board, "Do Hard Things." And we started talking about the concept all the time. If you were a fly on our wall, you would daily hear things like,…

 

"We don't quit in this family."

 

"You are allowed to say that it's hard, but not that it is TOO hard."

 

"You need to do 25 jumping jacks because you said, 'I can't do it'" (or, "It's too hard!")

 

"Tell yourself you can do it!"

 

"This IS hard, isn't it? But I know you can do it! It's just going to take some work."

 

"You did it! I'm so proud of you for not quitting!"

 

"What would be the point of me giving you easy things to do? Then you wouldn't learn anything!"

 

"Would you like to move on and come back to this problem later?" (then make sure to come back to the problem)

 

"Now, doesn't it feel good knowing how tough this problem was for you, yet you kept going and finally figured it out?"

 

"I noticed how you didn't throw a tantrum this morning when you couldn't figure out those math problems right away. Good job!"

 

"Let's tell Daddy how hard you worked on this problem, how long it took you, and how you didn't give up and finally got it right!"

 

 

 

This is all basically for math. I decided last year that I needed to challenge my children in at least one subject and math would be the easiest to do that with. Also, at the time I didn't really care whether they ended up hating math for the rest of their lives or not. Surprisingly enough, my children now love math! I'm sure a big part of it is because they catch my excitement about it, but it may also be that they actually feel satisfaction of a job well done when they have to actually work for something.

 

I'm learning to let them struggle and not jump in to rescue them with the "right answer" like I used to do. And I'm learning to give them the next baby step toward the right answer when they're stuck so that they can still feel the satisfaction of figuring it out for themselves. It's been tough, but SO worth it. I have seen definite improvement in both my 8yo and 6yo. We have made a conscious effort to focus on EFFORT instead of ACHIEVEMENT and it is changing the atmosphere in our home and the diligence they put forth.

 

Now, don't get me wrong - we still deal with this issue at least 2 times per week, but that's better than the almost daily occurrences that used to happen. I think with kids for whom most things come easy and who have perfectionistic tendencies that it is very important to focus on working hard, not quitting, and effort instead of achievement.

 

 

 

 

 

As far as finding the line between boredom and "pushing too hard," I don't think it's an issue in the content subjects. Just let him read what he wants. Read to him what he wants you to read. Maybe choose a higher vocal level book every once in a while. Talk about what you're reading. It's the skills where it is more of a concern. And, yes, it's hard to tell exactly where the line is. Sometimes you have to trip over it before you realize it's there, but your kid is resilient and will forgive you and you'll have learned a lesson. I'm trying to think of something concrete to give you, but it's kind of hard because every child is an individual.

 

For instance, my 6yo cries at the drop of a hat. If she starts crying when math seems too hard I come over and start talking with her about it. I play with her hair because that makes her feel loved and I stay calm and walk her through it. Usually that's all she needs, but every once in a while she really just seems to have no clue and that's when I bring out the C-Rods and Base 10 blocks or, if she's already tried them, just tell her that maybe we should save that page until she's a little bit older and let her be done.

 

My 8yo, on the other hand throws tantrums instead of crying, so I do the above with her when she gets angry. But if she were crying over a math problem them I would really take notice because it's out of the ordinary for her.

 

And because I know my kids so well, I just kind of sense when they are getting to their breaking point where their minds just need a break. So then I let them do gymnastics while we work or give them a 10 minute break or decide to be done for the day, whatever I feel is best at the time.

 

I guess I usually first ask questions to see where they are struggling, then I ask leading questions (like, "What do you know for sure already?" or, "Is there a way to do an easier problem first that would help you figure out this harder problem?" or "Do you think C-Rods would help?") to hopefully lead them in the right direction and see if they can make the right connections, then I get out manipulative or draw on the white board if they still aren't getting it, and, finally, I let them put it aside for another day if none of the above worked. If it were a constant problem then I would evaluate whether we were at the right level book for that particular child.

 

 

That's all concerning the line of being too hard. Knowing whether something is too easy is hard sometimes, too. My 6yo will often sigh and say, "I already KNOW this, Mom! Can we just skip it?" and I have to decide whether or not I think she needs the practice in that skill or not. I really struggle with this when it comes to writing. I never know whether I'm giving them too much or too little. If they're hand hurts, then I ask for one more sentence or word and say they are done, but often times they just don't want to do it and I have to decide whether they really need to do handwriting practice (or whatever) every day or not. That line is more tricky for me to distinguish…

 

 

 

 

I also want to add that I agree with a pp who pointed out that your son is still only 5. I don't make my children do ANY school work that they don't want to do until they are 6yo, and even then I try to keep it very light until 8yo. So if my 6yo doesn't get to every subject every day, it really isn't that big of a deal. She's only 6. I just want to make sure that she is being challenged periodically, but it doesn't have to be daily. And there are other ways to help kids work through perfectionism - CHORES are your friend! Or even everyday problems that my kids want me to solve for them, I'm learning to say, "What do you think you could do to solve that problem? I bet you can figure something out!"

 

 

 

I don't know if any of this helped, but hopefully you can find something useful in my ramblings!