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Dyslexia...or normal?


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Hi ladies,

I'm thinking about having my daughter tested for dyslexia. I am dyslexic myself, but overcame it without a lot of fuss, as it was caught early. I don't know how my mom knew to have me checked, she just did, and I wore bifocals through elementary school to assist me with tracking issues. Funny--a 7yo with bifocals.

 

Anyway, my daughter is making steady progress with reading, but sometimes gets hung up. She will read the correct letters in a word in any combination, for instance "sent" might be "nest." She also is consistently writing 2, 3, 5, and 7 backwards, in spite of the fact that she knows her numbers and has been writing them for over a year.

 

What says the hive? She has an eye appt. on Tuesday morning...just don't know what else might be appropriate.

 

tia

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I assume since your sig still says dd6 that she just turned 7, so at this point, I'd rule out physical vision problems and then sit back and see if it works out. Whatever you do, don't let her see you panicking, even if you're worried that she's inherited your issues.

 

You could try a program like HWOT, which is designed to prevent reversals, but it seems like overkill just for numbers. Does she generally write her words in the correct order? My dd (6 going on 7 soon) is a bit lazy when she reads, skipping words and making mistakes and/or guesses, and I just gently stop her if she makes a mistake - it's normal.

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My son recently turned 7 and is also reversing letters & numbers (just yesterday he reversed his "g" and "a" several times ... he still reverses b and d - ALL THE TIME - and some numbers are backwards, as well). For a while, when I asked him to read he would turn the book upside down and read it much better that way. He recently stopped doing that so much ... he sometimes reads words from the wrong direction or like you said, starts from the end of the word. I'm not sure what kind of testing goes into diagnosing this. Just wanted to say, we are dealing with similar issues.

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Hi ladies,

I'm thinking about having my daughter tested for dyslexia. I am dyslexic myself, but overcame it without a lot of fuss, as it was caught early. I don't know how my mom knew to have me checked, she just did, and I wore bifocals through elementary school to assist me with tracking issues. Funny--a 7yo with bifocals.

 

Anyway, my daughter is making steady progress with reading, but sometimes gets hung up. She will read the correct letters in a word in any combination, for instance "sent" might be "nest." She also is consistently writing 2, 3, 5, and 7 backwards, in spite of the fact that she knows her numbers and has been writing them for over a year.

 

What says the hive? She has an eye appt. on Tuesday morning...just don't know what else might be appropriate.

 

tia

 

Reversals are not considered a problem until after 7 in girls and 8 in boys. If she is making steady progress I would worry about it yet. My dd was mixing up letters when reading (including flipping u and n in words) until well over 7 and she is now reading quite a bit above grade level. That said, I think she is a bit dyslexic (heavy dyslexia in the family--50% of children of dyslexics are dyslexic.) At nearly 9 she is only still having troubles with js and 3s when she writes but is doing well otherwise.

 

We use HWOT and I started having her redo the reversals. Spelling, however, is another matter.

 

I guess what I am rambling on about is that I think that often with one on one instruction where you can gear the teaching to the child children with mild dyslexia do fine.

 

If she starts having trouble there are lots of resources out there for teaching dyslexic kids.

Edited by freesia
typo
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I assume since your sig still says dd6 that she just turned 7, so at this point, I'd rule out physical vision problems and then sit back and see if it works out. Whatever you do, don't let her see you panicking, even if you're worried that she's inherited your issues.

 

You could try a program like HWOT, which is designed to prevent reversals, but it seems like overkill just for numbers. Does she generally write her words in the correct order? My dd (6 going on 7 soon) is a bit lazy when she reads, skipping words and making mistakes and/or guesses, and I just gently stop her if she makes a mistake - it's normal.

 

No...she is still 6. Turns 7 in May, but has been making slow, steady reading progress since 4 1/2. I may simply be impatient...anyway, I do suspect that she could not be seeing things as clearly as she should, hence the eye appointment. Her dad has bad eyesight, and I have dyslexia. Covering all my bases! :001_smile:

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I have one child who I strongly suspect is dyslexic, though she has not been officially diagnosed yet. There are a lot of vision problems (not necessarily the vision itself, but the way the brain processes what the eye sees) that can look like dyslexia but aren't. I want to deal with everything else possible first to ensure that we get an accurate diagnosis.

 

She is receiving occupational therapy for fine motor delays. I also had an eval by a developmental opthamologist, and are waiting on an appt opening so she can get into therapy there.

 

After that stuff is corrected as much as possible, THEN we'll go to a neuropsych to check into dyslexia.

 

That being said, we have carefully chosen curriculum that are known to be better for dyslexics. It can't hurt typical children, and is what we would use if we had an official diagnosis. That way I don't have to worry about wasted time.

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You could also check with the two Yahoo groups Homeschooling Dyslexic Kids and LearningAbledKids. Both are a WEALTH of knowledge on dyslexian and much much more.

 

There is a woman there, her name is Mary, and she can tell you quite a bit about vision issues that look like dyslexia, but are not.

 

Good advice if physical issues have been ruled out and she gets older while still having problems. Not so good advice, in my experience, when it's still early days. People on a dedicated message board are likely to see everything through the lens of their own experience, and possibly raise alarms unnecessarily (which may indirectly alarm the child, my personal prime directive to avoid).

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Ok, I'll be the first one to say it. The "sent" and "nest" thing does sound like dyslexia. I would not be as concerned about the reversals yet which may or may not be a problem. Does she also miss small words when reading like and, plurals, endings, etc.?

 

Definitely check into the eye/VT side, but I would stay on top of this if the VT doesn't get desired results.

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Good advice if physical issues have been ruled out and she gets older while still having problems. Not so good advice, in my experience, when it's still early days. People on a dedicated message board are likely to see everything through the lens of their own experience, and possibly raise alarms unnecessarily (which may indirectly alarm the child, my personal prime directive to avoid).

 

Nah, these two groups are excellent. They will share their experiences but also they will tell you if they feel like you are being concerned without reason.

 

Many of the people that post in those two specific groups have gone through training programs to remediate dyslexia and other sensory integration issues. It's a good place to start.

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This was posted on the special needs board thread by Rod Everson:

 

It's been over a year since I've visited here, but I'm glad to see that vision problems are being recognized more and more every year. I've worked with a lot of kids after vision therapy (teaching them phonics) and believe me, it's a lot easier, for them and for me, once the vision needs have been met.

 

I agree with your optometrist to back off on the reading for a bit and stick to large print until her vision therapy has corrected her binocular vision issues. Seeing different things with each eye is horribly confusing, as the tears indicate.

 

I've got a pretty extensive discussion on vision and vision therapy on my website under the topic The Vision Piece of the Dyslexia Puzzle that others might find interesting, but the part of the site that you might find useful while your daughter is doing vision therapy are the pages describing some useful auditory processing exercises that you could be doing in the meantime. Use large letter tiles when you do the Auditory Processing with Tiles. The exercise after that is an oral one, and requires no tiles at all.

 

You might want to do the Auditory Processing Test mentioned there too. If she does well on it (9 of 10, or 10 of 10), you wouldn't have to mess with the tiles. [see the P.S. below that I added as an edit.] Just go straight to the exercises on the next page of the site. These exercises will help train auditory processes that she might not have been able to accomplish because her vision problems make it difficult to detect the sound-symbol relationships. If she easily progresses through all of the levels on the Oral Auditory Processing section, she probably doesn't even need it, but a lot of kids that I worked with did need some work in this area, and sometimes fairly extensive work, but the exercises there should help her make the needed connections if she is weak in that area.

 

All the best...

 

P.S. Sorry, I wrote that late in the evening and forgot to mention that many kids aren't ready for the higher levels of this test until age 7 or even 8. That is, it's developmentally challenging for them to delete a phoneme in the middle of a word (Say "trap" without the /r/, for example.) So, if a six-year-old can't do it, that's not a concern. That said, it's useful if they can learn to manipulate phonemes efficiently, just because of the way English is constructed. It makes decoding unfamiliar words much easier.

Last edited by Rod Everson; Yesterday at 01:00 PM. Reason: Clarifying the meaning of the test results

 

I would look into the VT angle also. My dd sounds similar to yours. If you read the links he sent it talks about the hereditary component. Now, make sure you don't do what I first did - I had my dd checked out by an opthamalogist who didn't look into the VT stuff. Turns out my dd has both eyes intermittently drifting out. I spoke with her reading therapist about this and she commented how she wished all kids would get this VT test first, before they get "labeled" dyslexic or something. Now, I still have a road ahead of me, but thanks to the "right" eye doctor finding out some or all of dd's problem, that road will be much shorter! Our plan is to get the eyes "fixed" first, then see where we are. Good luck!

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I highly recommend watching the video's on Susan Bartons website linked here They will give you a good idea of what dyslexia is, and what it isn't and when to worry. I would also recommend reading Overcoming Dyslexia by Sally Shaywitz. If you have dyslexia than there is a 50% chance for each of your children having it.

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Ok, I'll be the first one to say it. The "sent" and "nest" thing does sound like dyslexia. I would not be as concerned about the reversals yet which may or may not be a problem. Does she also miss small words when reading like and, plurals, endings, etc.?

 

Definitely check into the eye/VT side, but I would stay on top of this if the VT doesn't get desired results.

 

Yes, I agree. Letter reversals can be normal until age 8, but reordering the letters in a word would concern me more at this point. If you are doing a regular eye exam, make sure to also check out www.covd.org to see if vision processing issues might be a possibility.

 

Here's an article on dyslexia symptoms.

 

Whether she actually has dyslexia or a vision processing issue, it does seem like she is struggling to learn to read, which isn't all that uncommon. You might like to check out this webinar on How to Make Sure Your Child Is Not Among the 34% That Struggle With Reading.

 

I think it's good to at least take some time to be informed and learn what you can.

 

Merry :-)

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Here's an article on dyslexia symptoms.

 

Actually, it's not an article, it's a salespitch. I think the forums are a better starting point than a site trying to sell you an expensive reading program. :-(

 

(and judging only from the broad symptoms listed on that page, about 98% of the parents on this board are technically dyslexic as well! :lol:)

 

Stick with the forums if they are a reliable source of good information. But my philosophy is still to avoid sticking a kid with a diagnosis unless you're sure.

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Stick with the forums if they are a reliable source of good information. But my philosophy is still to avoid sticking a kid with a diagnosis unless you're sure.

 

Well, from the other side, as a mom of a kid who does have struggles, I really disagree with this. Frequently having a diagnosis is the only way to access services that are needed to help solve a child's struggles. It is not about "sticking a kid with a diagnosis" but unlocking needed therapies that will help a child to cope with their obstacles. In a perfect world, maybe a diagnosis wouldn't be necessary to access services, but in today's crazy healthcare and educational systems that is the way it is.

 

I don't see the harm in seeking evaluations (other than some financial expense). If there are no issues found, then all the better, but the emotional cost of seeing a child struggle for a long period of time, when help is available for the asking seems needless and silly to me.

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Well, from the other side, as a mom of a kid who does have struggles, I really disagree with this. ...

I don't see the harm in seeking evaluations (other than some financial expense). If there are no issues found, then all the better, but the emotional cost of seeing a child struggle for a long period of time, when help is available for the asking seems needless and silly to me.

 

I think you must have misunderstood. All I was saying is do the evaluations FIRST. Too many parents slap a label on their kid without expert advice. They'll just casually say, "it must be... aspergers / add / adhd / dyslexia." And too often, medicate it without REALLY looking into things.

 

I do also believe in not telling a child why you're doing an evaluation beyond, "we want to find ways to help you in school," or whatever. I wouldn't even mention reading specifically.

 

I also believe - and this is just MY thing - if your kid is borderline, and you don't necessarily NEED the services you could access with a diagnosis, it's best to steer clear. I was "offered" an asperger's diagnosis for my older son - the shrink said he was borderline - and turned it down. In my mind, he is "aspy" and I do see the tendencies, but to the rest of the world, he's just HIM and doing just fine without the label.

 

Like I said, this is just my personal belief, and I don't know why I feel so strongly. :lol: For what it's worth, I can easily understand how other parents would choose differently.

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I also believe - and this is just MY thing - if your kid is borderline, and you don't necessarily NEED the services you could access with a diagnosis, it's best to steer clear. I was "offered" an asperger's diagnosis for my older son - the shrink said he was borderline - and turned it down. In my mind, he is "aspy" and I do see the tendencies, but to the rest of the world, he's just HIM and doing just fine without the label.

 

Like I said, this is just my personal belief, and I don't know why I feel so strongly. :lol: For what it's worth, I can easily understand how other parents would choose differently.

 

I see what you are saying and I think we mostly agree. I just feel that it can be difficult to predict long term how a child will do and whether they need the services or not (I'd hate to get to College Board testing and suddenly realize that ds needed more time due to reading issues -yikes!). Some of the greatest regrets from long term board members are that they did not pursue early intervention for a child when they suspected a problem. I'm glad it is working out for your ds. For our family, I don't think it is worth the risk. I'll take whatever services and evaluations we can get and see if they help! :)

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My ds still writes 5's and 3's backwards sometimes. When he was six, about 10 letters were CONSISTENTLY backwards, and all the same numbers you mentioned were always backwards.

 

The one thing I would warn you, is to make sure she gets plenty of practice writing numbers, and switch her to cursive when you can...ASAP.

 

Meanwhile, my son still write's j's backwards every single time in manuscript writing. I'm over it...I never bothered to get him tested for dyslexia because he began reading well at 7 years old, was reading chapter books by 7.5 and does fine in math. Once in a while he will reverse letters or numbers.

 

My guess is that he has mild dysgraphia but it just wasn't an issue.

 

Especially since she's so young, I wouldn't worry about it. What I would do, is just be alert and diligent, and if she's still not reading by 8 then I would be concerned.

 

PS even my perfectly normal dd who has very few unusual challenges, reversed a lot of numbers and letters at 6. But it disappeared quickly when she began more regular handwriting and written phonics work.

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Ok, I'll be the first one to say it. The "sent" and "nest" thing does sound like dyslexia. I would not be as concerned about the reversals yet which may or may not be a problem. Does she also miss small words when reading like and, plurals, endings, etc.?

 

Definitely check into the eye/VT side, but I would stay on top of this if the VT doesn't get desired results.

 

Yes, I agree. Letter reversals can be normal until age 8, but reordering the letters in a word would concern me more at this point. If you are doing a regular eye exam, make sure to also check out www.covd.org to see if vision processing issues might be a possibility.

 

Here's an article on dyslexia symptoms.

 

Whether she actually has dyslexia or a vision processing issue, it does seem like she is struggling to learn to read, which isn't all that uncommon. You might like to check out this webinar on How to Make Sure Your Child Is Not Among the 34% That Struggle With Reading.

 

I think it's good to at least take some time to be informed and learn what you can.

 

Merry :-)

I agree, also. The letter/number reversal is completely normal at this age. A cognitive break-through happens at about seven or eight that takes care of it in non-dyslexic kids. My human development professor in college explained it this way: A dog is a dog whether you are looking at his side, his back, his tail, or his belly. Why isn't that pesky 'b'?

 

Now, the reversing of words would worry me. That's what my dyslexic DH does, though numbers get him more than words. A funny story that happened with him soon after we were married. We were passing through the town where his aunt and uncle lived, and we'd arranged to drop by their house. He pulled up to 306 T.... and said, "Here we are, 360, just like I wrote down." I looked at the paper and he had written "306 T..." (We were at the correct place, as it turned out, but I made him go up and knock by himself before I'd get out of the car.)

 

My DS9 reversed letters and numbers until he was seven, and then stopped almost over night. DD7 still reverses '2', '5', '6', and 'J', but she doesn't reverse words at all. (She used to reverse all her letters and often wrote right to left.)

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I agree, also. The letter/number reversal is completely normal at this age. A cognitive break-through happens at about seven or eight that takes care of it in non-dyslexic kids. My human development professor in college explained it this way: A dog is a dog whether you are looking at his side, his back, his tail, or his belly. Why isn't that pesky 'b'?

 

Now, the reversing of words would worry me. That's what my dyslexic DH does, though numbers get him more than words. A funny story that happened with him soon after we were married. We were passing through the town where his aunt and uncle lived, and we'd arranged to drop by their house. He pulled up to 306 T.... and said, "Here we are, 360, just like I wrote down." I looked at the paper and he had written "306 T..." (We were at the correct place, as it turned out, but I made him go up and knock by himself before I'd get out of the car.)

 

My DS9 reversed letters and numbers until he was seven, and then stopped almost over night. DD7 still reverses '2', '5', '6', and 'J', but she doesn't reverse words at all. (She used to reverse all her letters and often wrote right to left.)

 

Ahhhh, life with a dyslexic. It can be quite humorous! One time, I was in a less than pleasant mood, and my sweet, but severely dyslexic husband turned to me and chastised, "You're being a G-E-R-K!" I just looked at him...and he looked at me like, "What?"

 

We still laugh about that...when one of us is being moody, we'll call each other a Gerk. Works every time.

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Actually, it's not an article, it's a salespitch. I think the forums are a better starting point than a site trying to sell you an expensive reading program. :-(

 

Sorry if I've offended you. Here's one from the International Dyslexia Association instead. I've compared many lists, they all have about the same symptoms listed, and I find any of them a good starting point for helping a person decide whether they want to pursue more information about the topic. The Eide's book, The Mislabeled Child has a great list, not only for dyslexia but for lots of issues, and is also a good starting point if someone doesn't know whether to be concerned.

 

(and judging only from the broad symptoms listed on that page, about 98% of the parents on this board are technically dyslexic as well! :lol:)

 

Well, a funny on me--the first time I saw a list online, I thought it was overkill because I had so many of the symptoms...turns out I'm the genetic link for dyslexia in my family. I found I could trace back symtpoms for several generations, once I started digging. Instead of getting help, we all had to struggle and learn to compensate. My grandmother thought she was stupid in math, and had teachers reinforce that. On and on. I'm hopeful that future generations in my family can get help sooner if they need it and not have to go through all of that.

 

Stick with the forums if they are a reliable source of good information. But my philosophy is still to avoid sticking a kid with a diagnosis unless you're sure.

 

I post because the information I read on this and other forums for years said to wait, better late than early, don't worry, it'll come, not reading until 10 or 12 is normal, some kids just aren't natural spellers, and on and on. I waited, and I regret it. If I can save someone the pain we went through, great. AAS has greatly helped my family, and I've made no secret of that. If it helps someone else, great. If not, I hope they find another OG approach if they need it. But at least there are more voices now saying it's not all just normal, here's WHEN to look at things more seriously, here's WHAT to look for, and here are some resources to get you started. When I asked questions in my kids' early elementary years, I just didn't often hear this information. That's not anyone's fault--I don't say that in a blaming kind of way. But I'd like to see more information get into people's hands earlier so that they can know when to intervene and help their children.

 

Merry :-)

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More ideas for number reversals:

 

First, separate the practice time for writing the numbers from math time.

 

Have a variety of textile surfaces for your student to choose from. Possibilities include flannel fabric, corrugated cardboard, very fine sandpaper, fluffy fur fabric, a carpet square, and so on. Ask her which surface reminds her of the number (or letter if you are using this for letters).

 

Then cut a large number out of the chosen tactile surface.

 

Work with just one number at a time. Have the child write the number with the pointer finger of her dominant hand right on the tactile surface.

 

Then get the large muscles of the arm involved. Stand next to her to demonstrate how we make the number. Get your whole arm involved, and pretend that your pointer finger is a pen. Write the number in the air, using big motions. Keep it all one fluid motion and repeat several times. I’d also try saying the number as you write it, the way you would say a sound as you wrote a letter.

 

Making a letter with large movements of the arm combined with saying the sound at the same time will help link these two concepts together in the brain, so that’s why I would try saying the number while making it. Brain research shows that two ideas practiced at the same time can permanently bond the ideas together. Not only that, this multisensory activity takes advantage of the fact that the muscles in the shoulder and in the jaw have “muscle memory,†and this makes it easier for your child to recall the shape of the number.

 

Repeat this several times a day. In each session, practice with the textile surface and the large arm movements.

Try making one number a focus of the week, and work on that one every day, a few times a day. Put a poster of the number up, label things around the house, practice making it in different mediums, and so on. Master one trouble number at a time.

 

Then, when she miswrites a number, you can have her draw the number using air writing. Then have your child read the word/number again.

 

If your child reverses multi-digit numbers (for example, reads “19″ as “91″), encourage him to draw an arrow by the numbers. One of my children used to subtract “up†if the number on top in the ones column was smaller than the number on the bottom. Drawing a down arrow by all of the subtraction problems was helpful for that.

Handwriting without Tears has wonderful instruction for number formation as well as letters. For kids who struggle a lot with reversals, it might be worth taking a look at the instructions. We used their mini chalk-board for awhile and that helped with number reversals here. That helped especially with 5′s here, though it was hard to break the habit of starting with the “hat†first!

 

Another tip: “6 sits, 9 stands up†for kids who get those 2 confused.

 

Merry :-)

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My ds still writes 5's and 3's backwards sometimes. When he was six, about 10 letters were CONSISTENTLY backwards, and all the same numbers you mentioned were always backwards.

 

The one thing I would warn you, is to make sure she gets plenty of practice writing numbers, and switch her to cursive when you can...ASAP.

 

Meanwhile, my son still write's j's backwards every single time in manuscript writing. I'm over it...I never bothered to get him tested for dyslexia because he began reading well at 7 years old, was reading chapter books by 7.5 and does fine in math. Once in a while he will reverse letters or numbers.

 

My guess is that he has mild dysgraphia but it just wasn't an issue.

 

Especially since she's so young, I wouldn't worry about it. What I would do, is just be alert and diligent, and if she's still not reading by 8 then I would be concerned.

 

PS even my perfectly normal dd who has very few unusual challenges, reversed a lot of numbers and letters at 6. But it disappeared quickly when she began more regular handwriting and written phonics work.

 

This gives me a lot of comfort...and I forget that sometimes we have a couple of weeks that feel like you are stuck in a tar pit and then big strides come. Yesterday she wrote all of her numbers FINE except for one backward 7. This is after CONSISTENT reversals for quite some time! :tongue_smilie:

 

I also have picked up OPGTR again (we had stopped using it because every time I pulled it out last year in K she cried) and now she said she "really likes it!" :001_huh: What a difference a few months can make in a kid. Good news is she is already working on cursive by her own choice, and she is certainly reading--just not at the level I would have expected for the amount of work we've done. But so what? If I were to have her evaluated, I have a feeling they'd look at me like, "why are you here?"

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More ideas for number reversals:

 

First, separate the practice time for writing the numbers from math time.

 

Have a variety of textile surfaces for your student to choose from. Possibilities include flannel fabric, corrugated cardboard, very fine sandpaper, fluffy fur fabric, a carpet square, and so on. Ask her which surface reminds her of the number (or letter if you are using this for letters).

 

Then cut a large number out of the chosen tactile surface.

 

Work with just one number at a time. Have the child write the number with the pointer finger of her dominant hand right on the tactile surface.

 

Then get the large muscles of the arm involved. Stand next to her to demonstrate how we make the number. Get your whole arm involved, and pretend that your pointer finger is a pen. Write the number in the air, using big motions. Keep it all one fluid motion and repeat several times. I’d also try saying the number as you write it, the way you would say a sound as you wrote a letter.

 

Making a letter with large movements of the arm combined with saying the sound at the same time will help link these two concepts together in the brain, so that’s why I would try saying the number while making it. Brain research shows that two ideas practiced at the same time can permanently bond the ideas together. Not only that, this multisensory activity takes advantage of the fact that the muscles in the shoulder and in the jaw have “muscle memory,†and this makes it easier for your child to recall the shape of the number.

 

Repeat this several times a day. In each session, practice with the textile surface and the large arm movements.

Try making one number a focus of the week, and work on that one every day, a few times a day. Put a poster of the number up, label things around the house, practice making it in different mediums, and so on. Master one trouble number at a time.

 

Then, when she miswrites a number, you can have her draw the number using air writing. Then have your child read the word/number again.

 

If your child reverses multi-digit numbers (for example, reads “19″ as “91″), encourage him to draw an arrow by the numbers. One of my children used to subtract “up†if the number on top in the ones column was smaller than the number on the bottom. Drawing a down arrow by all of the subtraction problems was helpful for that.

Handwriting without Tears has wonderful instruction for number formation as well as letters. For kids who struggle a lot with reversals, it might be worth taking a look at the instructions. We used their mini chalk-board for awhile and that helped with number reversals here. That helped especially with 5′s here, though it was hard to break the habit of starting with the “hat†first!

 

Another tip: “6 sits, 9 stands up†for kids who get those 2 confused.

 

Merry :-)

 

Thanks for the tips! These are all ideas I know she is going to love!

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