HOD people...please help me figure this out!

[Sue G in PA]

I am homeschooling 7 children. I have dd15 doing MFW WHL, ds12 and ds13 doing HOD RtR, ds10 doing Bigger and Ds8 and dd6 doing Beyond. Ds3 is just hanging out but is ready to start LHTH very soon. Can I be honest? I'm having a TOUGH time running 3 guides, keeping the 3yo occupied and finding enough time for dd15 who really needs more of my time than just a weekly check-in. IF ds12 and ds13 were more independent than they are with RtR and ds10 didn't fight me tooth and nail about school every blessed day, this might work. But it's not. And I need to get real. I love HOD and I don't want to switch. Dh loves HOD, too. Sooooo...I need some suggestions on HOW to make this work for us. I cannot keep running 3 guides. Beyond hardly ever gets done, I rarely get to everything in Bigger and if I give ds12 and ds13 any more "rope" (independence in their work), they will certainly hang themselves (read: not get their work done at all). Options? 1. I could combine ds10, ds8 AND dd6 in Beyond and "beef it up" for ds10. How, I don't know yet. 2. I could put them all in Bigger (dd6 is very advanced...she could handle it). The challenge would be in the future years. I can't see her handling Preparing next year..just a bit too advanced I think. 3. I could find a way to survive as a chicken with her head cut off and keep running 3 guides. 4. This is where you, the all-knowing HIVE, come in :D Seriously, I'm missing something. Help? :confused: Thanks. :D

[Molly]

Just had a quick thought with regard to your older ones. Can you DH oversee what they have done independently, eg marking, listening to narrations etc. Possibly even the 10 yr old.

 

I imagine you have a schedule, so do have time allotments where the older ones take care of the 3yr old to give to time to concentrate on what you need too. Are the older ones good managers of their own time?

 

I think your idea of doing combining the younger three in Beyond would probably work if you find some form of extensions for DS10.

 

I can only imagine how difficult it is for you. I struggle at times with only four. Last year was our best year yet as I finally started sticking to a schedule, relatively loosely, but still much better than ever before. I am really looking forward to starting HOD next week with my girls and then in a couple of weeks adding my oldest son into it. I am hoping to have three guides going mid year and then will end up doing four once I add the toddler in. But I'm hoping we will just grow into it.

[LindaOz]

Hi Sue,

 

When I was looking into HOD a while back, I found a whole lot of threads on the HOD board about scheduling with large families and multiple guides. Some of the info was really good and very practical. Even Carrie herself posted her schedule and how she worked around getting to everyone. Have you seen these threads? I'm in a hurry at the moment so I don't have time to find and link but if you search on 'large families' or 'scheduling' you should find some great ideas.

 

HTH

[Another Lynn]

I would combine your 10yo, 8yo and 6yo. Whether you do it in Bigger or in Beyond - you're going to have to decide in your gut if it works better to beef up or pare down. If you end up with a 7yo in Preparing, could she write the first sentence or two or the narration and you do the rest? etc. But, what I wanted to suggest is that you use the storytime a little differently. What if you had two read alouds going at once - say one on Mondays and Tuesdays and a 2nd one on Wed and Thurs. On Mon and Tues read something easier (aimed more at the 6yo) and on Wed and Thurs read something more challenging, aimed at the 10 yo.

 

I have done something like this with mine even though I'm not using HOD with them. My history read aloud is below my 10yo. So what? He's still learning history. My lit read loud on 1 or 2 days is aimed at my 6 yo - so what? My 10yo and 8yo still like it. My lit. read aloud on a couple other days is aimed at my 10 yo. Guess what? My 6yo and 8yo still cheer for it. Just adjust the output as necessary.... I know that's easier said than done.... but possible.

 

So glad HOD is a good fit for you! Hope you can continue to make it work.

 

ETA: When I said adjusting output was possible, I didn't mean that to sound trite. I know it IS really difficult to adjust the output very much and still feel like you're really using the guide. Another thought I had was to combine all three in Bigger but take it to half pace. Skills still move forward, 6yo gets older, 10yo is still in the range of the extensions even next year, and then when you get to Preparing your 6yo will be older and more ready and for your 10yo, his last trip through Preparing will be even more distant memory. Just a thought. It's not wrong to combine into Beyond, but a couple reasons why I might not.... your youngers in Beyond have had a taste of early American history so bumping them up to Bigger is not a huge disruption of their history. Beyond is a very sweet guide, but it does stay with the pilgrims a LONG time. One more thought on the half-pace idea. If you don't want to go half pace all the time, split the 5th day in half. Isnt' that the day in Bigger with lots of coloring and notebooking? Sorry, these thoughts are rather random.

 

Also, fwiw, I do understand how hard it is to run three guides. I've tried it twice. I know other people do it and have tips for making it work, but I don't think I ever sustained it for longer than 6 weeks. (Ha, maybe that's a good reason to do 6 weeks on and one week off, LOL). I would not say I have terribly compliant or terribly rebellious kids. They are very normal kids, and there is no way I can keep 3 guides going for a long time.

Edited January 20, 2012 by Another Lynn

[Joyoflearning]

I'm not "there yet", so my hat goes off to you. Here are some thoughts, so take them as just ideas. First, I'm doing LHFHG with a 5 year old and didn't know how I was going to manage another guide. Right after Christmas I started LHTH with the youngers and suprisingly our day is now shorter and easier than when I ran one guide:001_huh:. Hopefully that is encouraging. I think it helped the younger ones feel more included and gave needed breaks to the 5 year old without getting her out of school mode (in the other room playing). LHTH really only takes a few minutes. I also agree with the suggestion of having the olders help with the younger one and they can actually be the ones doing LHTH with the little one while you are working on the Beyond guide. I think that it is a great idea to combine the 6, 8, and 10 year old in Beyond. Since 10 years old is the youngest end of RTR I would then think about having the 10 year old listen in and participate with anything the other ones are doing in RTR that is not independent. Also, do the RTR apologia astronomy Science with them all together. Then, next year the extensions for bigger go until age 11 anyways so the 7,9, and 11 year old at the time would all fall in the age range for that guide. Now where that leaves your kids regarding where they place in skills, I don't know, so that would be something to also consider.

[Chelli]

I am homeschooling 7 children. I have dd15 doing MFW WHL, ds12 and ds13 doing HOD RtR, ds10 doing Bigger and Ds8 and dd6 doing Beyond. Ds3 is just hanging out but is ready to start LHTH very soon. Can I be honest? I'm having a TOUGH time running 3 guides, keeping the 3yo occupied and finding enough time for dd15 who really needs more of my time than just a weekly check-in. IF ds12 and ds13 were more independent than they are with RtR and ds10 didn't fight me tooth and nail about school every blessed day, this might work. But it's not. And I need to get real. I love HOD and I don't want to switch. Dh loves HOD, too. Sooooo...I need some suggestions on HOW to make this work for us. I cannot keep running 3 guides. Beyond hardly ever gets done, I rarely get to everything in Bigger and if I give ds12 and ds13 any more "rope" (independence in their work), they will certainly hang themselves (read: not get their work done at all). Options? 1. I could combine ds10, ds8 AND dd6 in Beyond and "beef it up" for ds10. How, I don't know yet. 2. I could put them all in Bigger (dd6 is very advanced...she could handle it). The challenge would be in the future years. I can't see her handling Preparing next year..just a bit too advanced I think. 3. I could find a way to survive as a chicken with her head cut off and keep running 3 guides. 4. This is where you, the all-knowing HIVE, come in :D Seriously, I'm missing something. Help? :confused: Thanks. :D

 

Sue, I have only 3 children, the oldest of which is 8. I am only running two HOD guides at the moment, one of which is LHTH, so take my advice for what it's worth. :tongue_smilie:To me when I read your post, what I bolded jumped out at me. I think you know that this is your problem, not the amount of HOD guides necessarily.

 

I would figure out why your 12 and 13 year olds are not more independent with their guides. Is it too difficult for them? Do they just not want to do the work? Once you figure this out, then start dealing with whatever the problem is. If it's too difficult, then change it to a lower guide or modify the assignments. If they just don't want to do it, then find out why and deal with it.

 

I would spend a lot of time working with your 10 year old on attitudes. Maybe find some way (consequences or rewards) to change his behavior. I wouldn't mess with even trying to do much school (or definitely anything fun or extra-curricular activities) until you get this under control.

 

The reason I say to focus on these two things is because even if you switch to another curriculum, then both of these problems would still be staring you in the face. At some point, they've just got to learn to do it.

 

And that is my parenting out of my realm of expertise post for the month. :D

 

:grouphug: and prayers as you figure things out.

[jewel7123]

Is your six year old advanced, average or slightly behind? I guess that would make a difference as far as putting the 10, 8 and 6 in Bigger or Beyond. But it seems to me (and I say this not having tried it yet) that it wouldn't be any harder to use Bigger with a six year old than it would be to use MFW or TOG to combine. Just make sure you have LA and Math on her level and maybe add in some fun picture books that match up with the weekly themes? Just a thought.

[Tidbits of Learning]

I am running 3 guides among 4 kids. I would not recommend putting the 6 yr old in anything more than Beyond right now. You will not gain independence in the higher guides if you do this.

Did your 12 and 13 year old complete any other levels of HOD to prepare for RTR? Did they place in RTR? I ask this because the skills necessary for working independently are taught over time with HOD. If your dc have not went through and completed any other HOD guides, I would suggest dropping your ds12 and ds13 back some levels in order to get them ready for the leap in independence alongside the increase in workload.

I combined HOD BLHFHG last year for my then 2nd, 4th, and 5th grader (beefing it up for the 4th and 5th grader who were 9 and 10 at the time). It was a disaster. My 4th and 5th grader were above it and quick to answer in depth to simple questions. My 2nd grader got left in the dust with skills he should have been picking up. I was adding so much to beef it up it was like running 2 curriculums anyway.

If you did combine in Bigger you would have to beef up beyond the extensions. Bigger is meant to be a 2nd to 3rd grade program with extension for 4th and 5th. It might would work for your 10 year old, but that would be too much of a stretch for your 12 and 13 yr olds that are in middle school. I considered keeping mine combined this year in Bigger and realistically looked at it from the standpoint that my 6th grade 11 year old would be wasting her time and not moving forward and gaining any new skills.

I am going to suggest doing Beyond with your 6 and 8 yr old and doing Preparing with your 10, 12, and 13 year old. It starts building independence in Preparing and you can add extensions.

My other suggestions is that maybe HOD isn't going to work if you want to combine such big age ranges and if you can't get your dc to cooperate with running more guides than one. I just can't put into words how little my older children took from doing a guide that was really too young for them even though it made my life easier. It also took away from my younger child who is now going back through Beyond and gaining those skills he didn't while his sisters were there to outshine him so to speak. My girls are combined in CTC and it is working well.

I too have had trouble with my older girls not doing work before and I thought they were finished. I point blank told them that if they were in public or private school that the teacher would not be hand holding them at this stage. It is hard to be both parent and teacher. I had to mean business. I had to let some school days last until late in the night. I had to check the work at the end of the day and make sure it was done and done up to their grade level and capability. This took both my husband and I backing each other up. There were nights that I had children at the school table until supper and then back at the table after supper until bed time. I totally believe it is a heart issue and until I met it head on it wasn't going to change.

They are getting a lot more out of it this way and I am not reinventing the wheel trying to change a program to work differently than it was intended. HOD is really for age ranges and skills and it is not meant to combine over such a large age range.

Edited January 20, 2012 by OpenMinded

[Sue G in PA]

OpenMinded...we used Preparing last year with ds12 and 13 (as well as ds10 but quickly figured it was way too difficult for him). So, when we finished Preparing, I re-assessed where we were. Ds12 and 13 placed squarely in RtR (and since we had already done the Ancients time period, we moved forward to RtR). I moved ds10 down to Bigger so he could build those independence skills necessary for the upper guides. Make sense? It has worked for us. My older boys in RtR are capable of being more independent. Ds12 already is. But he has gotten lazy. Ds13 is just being stubborn and I think he just craves more of my time. IDK. The littles in Beyond place squarely in that Guide as well. Dd6 is very advanced...more so than ds8. All 3 Guides were a good fit for each child/set of children. I already combine Storytime with Bigger and Beyond, but gave it up b/c I was losing steam. If I combined into Bigger, I just know I would be watering down each subsequent guide for dd6 and I don't want to do that. They are far too rich and I don't want her to miss anything. I think I'm just going to try my best to run the 3 Guides, urge my older boys to be independent (and enlist dh's help in monitoring them), continue to combine Storytime in Bigger/Beyond (and do the reading before bed), pick and choose the projects and most likely use just the science from Bigger since the science in Beyond is a bit below where my dc are anyway. That might cut down some time. Open to any other suggestions! Thanks!

[abrightmom]

Sue,

 

Can you run RTR half speed immediately???? Give you and your older boys some breathing room, work carefully within each box, change "I" boxes to "T" boxes as needed for awhile, and reward for a job well done. Once half speed is MASTERED (and I do mean this with all my heart....just because the Placement Chart says they fit does not mean they do. A placement chart cannot assess comprehension level or endurance for school work. HOD is challenging and it is full. A placement chart cannot assess a family dynamic or a child's heart issues. ALL of those things are AS if not MORE important when placing children in a HOD guide.)

 

I agree wholeheartedly that staying with HOD means NOT combining your #2, #3, and #4 kiddos in Beyond. They're too spread out and you'd shoot yourself in the foot. Kids wouldn't be preparing for next guides OR getting the right kind of meat from their current guide. Beefing Up can be just as difficult as separating them into the right guides at those lower levels. You may as well change curriculum and use MFW or something more designed to reach a wider audience with skill integration not so tightly woven in.

 

:grouphug:

[Sue G in PA]

Katrina, going half speed with RtR wouldn't put us into RevtoRev by September. My ds13 will be in 9th grade and I don't want to sell him short. I will have to start issuing credits and he knows the workload gets harder. BUT, I see what you mean about mastering skills and getting the most from the Guides. I feel like we are rushing through sometimes just to get through. Make sense? Instead of enjoying the ride. Perhaps I can cut back on RtR and go even 3/4 speed. With it being a 4 day program, I feel like we already spread it out into 5 days..with day 5 for History project and science experiment (instead of spread out over the week or experiment on Thurs.) and the basics. Thanks for the "permission" to slow down! :) Funny how it takes another objective person to do that for you. I think I'll do that with Bigger as well...just to give my son time to really master the skills AND mature. He is slllooowww to do that. Beyond can go full-speed. Both dc are ready. Now, to figure out how to make this all work w/out losing my mind and :willy_nilly: or :banghead:

[Another Lynn]

OpenMinded...we used Preparing last year with ds12 and 13 (as well as ds10 but quickly figured it was way too difficult for him). So, when we finished Preparing, I re-assessed where we were. Ds12 and 13 placed squarely in RtR (and since we had already done the Ancients time period, we moved forward to RtR). I moved ds10 down to Bigger so he could build those independence skills necessary for the upper guides. Make sense? It has worked for us. My older boys in RtR are capable of being more independent. Ds12 already is. But he has gotten lazy. Ds13 is just being stubborn and I think he just craves more of my time. IDK. The littles in Beyond place squarely in that Guide as well. Dd6 is very advanced...more so than ds8. All 3 Guides were a good fit for each child/set of children. I already combine Storytime with Bigger and Beyond, but gave it up b/c I was losing steam. If I combined into Bigger, I just know I would be watering down each subsequent guide for dd6 and I don't want to do that. They are far too rich and I don't want her to miss anything. I think I'm just going to try my best to run the 3 Guides, urge my older boys to be independent (and enlist dh's help in monitoring them), continue to combine Storytime in Bigger/Beyond (and do the reading before bed), pick and choose the projects and most likely use just the science from Bigger since the science in Beyond is a bit below where my dc are anyway. That might cut down some time. Open to any other suggestions! Thanks!

 

Katrina, going half speed with RtR wouldn't put us into RevtoRev by September. My ds13 will be in 9th grade and I don't want to sell him short. I will have to start issuing credits and he knows the workload gets harder. BUT, I see what you mean about mastering skills and getting the most from the Guides. I feel like we are rushing through sometimes just to get through. Make sense? Instead of enjoying the ride. Perhaps I can cut back on RtR and go even 3/4 speed. With it being a 4 day program, I feel like we already spread it out into 5 days..with day 5 for History project and science experiment (instead of spread out over the week or experiment on Thurs.) and the basics. Thanks for the "permission" to slow down! :) Funny how it takes another objective person to do that for you. I think I'll do that with Bigger as well...just to give my son time to really master the skills AND mature. He is slllooowww to do that. Beyond can go full-speed. Both dc are ready. Now, to figure out how to make this all work w/out losing my mind and :willy_nilly: or :banghead:

 

This sounds like a great plan. Combining science is a great idea. Slower pace for a couple guides will help you too. It sounds very good, imho!

[Sue G in PA]

Carrie actually posted on the HOD board in answer to this question. She had many suggestions, but the one I liked was combining them all in Beyond with the exception of science and the 3Rs. Use Science and the 3Rs from Bigger for ds10. The following year combine all in Bigger and use the extentions and follow the Science and 3Rs in Preparing for ds10. I like it, but I'm not sure about it yet. Still thinking about trying to somehow make it all work. :)