Sheila in OK Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 I am thinking of using this next year for my 2nd grader. He has had a rough year with MUS Alpha. He is really bored with it, and he doesn't "get" the tricks. We have been stuck on the +9's FOREVER and he never did get solving for unknowns. So . . I am thinking I need something more colorful and with more variety. I have MCP Math Level B, but I'm concerned about the sheer number of problems on each page. I know he will revolt. He gets overwhelmed easily, even if I cross some out. I'm thinking of getting BJU but would like some feedback first. Do you really need EVERYTHING? (TM, reviews pack, teacher pack, etc.) It seems like a lot of stuff. Is it really teacher-intensive? Does it take a lot of time each day? TIA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Pip Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 We just started BJU Math 2. We used BJU K, then switched to Horizons, Math U See Alpha, Developmental Math...now we're back to BJU!! BJU uses "tricks" like MUS but you don't have to master it before moving on, and its really just introducing a way to think about numbers. We've done the 1st 3 chapters, and it has mostly reviewed adding, subtracting, & place value concepts (tens & ones). It has been review for my dd. I haven't used many of the manipulatives yet, but I know I will. So far, I have used the Reviews book to threaten with when attitudes are bad, LOL. But I can imagine I'll use it later on in the year if we need more work with a concept (like when we get to carrying or multiplication). I like having everything on hand. Here is how I use it: I glance through the TM to see what concepts are being taught. If its all review, I just explain the worksheet & let dd work independently. I only hit those things in the TM that I feel need review, or I want to make sure she understands. I did use it when they discussed "renaming" 19 ones as 1 ten, 9 ones, or 2 tens and 15 ones as 3 tens, 5 ones. You could probably skip the manipulative packet if you have lots of stuff on hand (unifix cubes or base ten blocks (or MUS blocks), a clock, money, etc.). At a minimum, I would have the TM & workbook. Tests - if you use tests, then you'd want these. You may or may not need the answer guide to the tests. I finally decided I didn't want to hassle with what I need or don't need & just bought the whole kit & caboodle. So far, I think my dd takes about 30 mins to do math (but we were taking about 45mins - 1 hour at first as I tried to find my groove, and I did everything in the TM). BJU can be teacher intensive, but I think it lays a good foundation, and I've found I pretty much need to be involved in any math I teach anyway, so it hasn't been a big change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 I'm not sure if anyone has it or if it's so new no one will have used it yet, but there's supposed to be a new version of the tm (or the whole math?) coming out soon. There was a thread on it a while back. I've been using the BJU 4, and the changes it sounds like they're making address some of the quirks we've had with it. See in the current edition (what we're using), you have 4 supplementary workbooks: Reviews-fact drill and spiral review Spread Your Wings-remedial Spring Into Action-more practice in the lesson of the day Stretch Your Mind-challenging application problems using the concept from the lesson What they don't tell you is that in schools the teachers have access to these and are using them. My friend who teaches 4th grade has her kids do a drill sheet every day, flashcards, the student worktext, and then assigns Spring for homework. What BJU is doing in the new edition, to make sure everyone has access to these materials, is they're putting them onto a cd that will be included in the tm. At least that's the best I can tell from what I'm reading online. Check what grades they have done, but someone said 1st and 2nd this year, maybe 3rd really soon. So they're doing it at a good clip and would be ready for you. I definitely think this new edition and the reformatting of the workbooks will be a welcome improvement and worth springing for. The biggest complaint about BJU is not enough practice, so now they're making sure that people GET all the stuff you need to do all the practice, the same stuff schools have been using but that they weren't bundling together. My dd is like your dc and wilts at the thought of a huge page (or 4 pages) of stuff. For some reason, the color, the fun elements, and just breaking it up into several different stages the way BJU does makes a HUGE difference. She'll do 4 pages in BJU and not even blink, where 4 pages of Horizons was just dreadful to her, go figure. She really likes the codes, the fun things, the trivia bits, and the COLOR. We came from RightStart, with none of that. While it was the same conceptually, it wasn't the same practically, kwim? And as for getting the tricks, well it may be maturity and lack of proficiency. I'd back up if necessary, all the way till the materials are easy for him. What you might do is get the new 1st grade stuff and do that with him quickly. That way, even if he goes into the 2nd grade stuff a bit later, he's going in CONFIDENT, kwim? I did that with my dd. I bought the 4th grade because it fit her conceptually, but her fact speed was so slow that I finally got the 3rd grade and had her work through it quickly, made a huge difference. No need to plow forward if he's frustrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ereks mom Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 I love all BJU math courses through Algebra 1. Years ago, I copied and saved this review I found online when I was researching math programs. It was written by a former math teacher who also homeschooled his own children: This is one of the best math series available today. Too many elementary math programs are arithmetic programs, not mathematics curricula. BJU Math is a complete math program that meets all of the current objectives of the National Council of Teachers of Mathematics. Students who use this program are highly likely to do well in higher math courses. Each lesson begins in a concrete setting with hands on work. This part is contained only in the teacher's edition. They then move to the workbook or textbook for practice. The exercises are not just drill. Almost every lesson provides problem solving (story problem) applications. The true test of whether or not a student has learned a math concept is his or her ability to use that skill to solve problems. The BJU Math curriculum teaches concepts, skills, and applications. It includes geometry, measurement, time, money, probability, statistics, and logic. Algebra skills are properly prepared in each grade to ease the transition into high school math. Geometry skills pave the way for later courses as well. The course does not overload the pupil with unnecessary drill. The exercises are spaced out over several days, and a lot of review is included. There are three sets of workbooks that can be added to the textbooks. One [called Stretch Your Mind] provides enrichment, one [called Spread Your Wings provides] reteaching, and one [called Spring Into Action provides] extra practice. The student then receives the right kind of reinforcement for his or her level of understanding. The curriculum is not show-off education. It does not race through material to impress the neighbors with how far ahead the student is. The program is on grade level, and it takes the time to develop concepts properly so that retention is genuine. It forces the students to apply what they have learned in a gradual spiral of expanding problem solving skills. The same reviewer also said: I have had the wonderful opportunity to use BJU materials both in Christian schools and in home school settings for a number of years. This is easily the best curriculum ever written for teachers who know what they are doing and can spend the time in daily preparation to implement the curriculum properly. Parents who cannot dedicate this time might do better looking for a more student based program or a video program. BJU materials are teacher centered by design. Lessons begin with hands on work and "classroom" discussion most of the time, before the student moves into the text material. Teacher guides are very thorough, and help with parent understanding of concepts so that they can successfully present them to the pupil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Pip Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 I'll weigh in on the editions that OhElizabeth is talking about. I have the new 3rd editions for 1st & 2nd grades. 2nd grade came out (I think) Summer or Fall of 2007. I love the 3rd edition; I have never used the 2nd editions, but hear that it didn't have enough practice unless you have all the extra workbooks. The 3rd edition "kit" comes with this - TM workbook Reviews book Tests Test answer guide manipulative kit It sounds like this new 3rd edition is more of a complete math, whereas the 2nd edition really needed those extra (non-kit) books to fill it out. As OhElizabeth said, you may consider doing a quick paced 1st grade - 1st grade introduces some big concepts - by the middle of the book, 1st grade teaches addition with "renaming" (i.e., carry the one, column addition). 2nd grade teaches this same concept again early on in the book, and introduces multiplication and division half way through the book. If you think your ds needs another year focus on math facts and could use a slow, gentle introduction to addition with carrying, then I'd use 1st grade. If your ds is ready to move on and could probably grasp the addition with carrying quickly, then jump into 2nd grade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenschooler Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 We love it, and I don't have any dislikes about it at all. It's worth every penny, IMHO, but you can definitely buy parts of it used. I've used different combinations of the various materials with each one - they aren't all necessary, but nice to have. You might not need the student material packet, if you have plenty of math manipulatives already. I've never used the flip-chart before, but bought it in a used package, and it looks handy. We especially like the activity reviews books - those can be used as independent practice, or even on an 'off day' when I might not have time to teach the lesson. These can be used in place of some of the review activities at the beginning of each lesson in the TE. It usually takes us around 30 minutes a day to teach the lesson and do the worktext, plus another 10 minutes or so to do the reviews. The only things I think are really necessary are the TE, the Teacher's Activity pack, the worktext, and *one* of the review books. I also like having the rest, especially the tests (they are almost identical to the chapter reviews, so not absolutely necessary). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommyfaithe Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 I have used grades 1-4 and I love BJU math...which is a lot to say...because i don't generally like math...I just wish the 5-8th grade books were workbook style. DD is going to balk at all the copying...oh well... Faithe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowWhite Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 The 3rd edition TM also includes a CD with reteaching and enrichment worksheets to print off as desired. This will be our first year (switching after trying MCP, CLE and Singapore). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in CA Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Another BJU math lover here! ;) I have used Making Math Meaningful, Saxon, MUS, A Beka, Miquon, and Singapore....but it is BJU that I am sticking with for the long haul. I decided to try this program on my youngest two years ago when we purchased the Homesat satellite system for my high schoolers. I fell in love with it! I love how they teach with mainupatives first so the student can "see" the math. I love how they build on what has been taught throughout the year. For example, they will teach an entire chapter on fractions, then they will move onto a completely different topic in the next chapter...say measurements...but the student is not done with fractions! No sireee! They will come back to those several weeks later but at a deeper level reviewing and adding on to what was already taught. Each year will go deeper into a concept, reviewing and adding on to what has previously been learned. It is just one of those programs that really works for us. I don't worry about math anymore. It's BJU all the way! I even bought some Singapore books AGAIN this year (I can't tell you how many times I have done this thinking the grass is greener in their books somehow). I thought I would use their word problems for supplemental work. So far I have not use a single one. Errrrr...I am so good at wasting money. :tongue_smilie: As for BJU being teacher intensive. We use the Homesat classes so I am not usually teaching math anymore, but before that I had to actually teach it, even when using MUS. To be honest, I don't know how one can really learn math without it being clearly taught. :confused: Anyhow, if you purchase the new 3rd edition Math, I think you will find the TM more to your liking than the older versions which were originally made for actual school teachers. The newer versions have us homeschoolers in mind. Yea BJU! I have not seen a new Math TM myself, but have heard glowing reports that they are much improved. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in CA Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 I just wish the 5-8th grade books were workbook style. DD is going to balk at all the copying...oh well...Faithe I was very worried that my son would balk when we started 5th grade math this year and you know what? He hasn't said a single word!! I bought him some quad paper notebooks (the kind with the little squares) for writing his math problems in...perhaps that was the magic 'ticket.' :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhondabee Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 I liked 3rd and 6th - loved Pre-Algebra, but really, really disliked 4th. *Way* too conceptual for my ds - not that he didn't "get" the concept, but he didn't like having to write it all out. (One of his points of "mom, this is just stupid": if you know that 6x8 is 48, then why do you have to write out 6x8 = 3x8 + 3x8 = 24 + 24 = 48?) The straw that broke my back was the highly confusing way they taught long division. It left WAY too much room for errors, and didn't provide a "check" until the problem was completely finished. We finished out the year with Rod & Staff (which I had here). I'm still up in the air about next year, though I will probably go back to BJU for 6th and Pre-Algebra. =0 Rhonda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ereks mom Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 the highly confusing way they taught long division. But it was easy enough to ignore the way they did it in the book & do it the "old-fashioned" way -- like I was taught back in the day. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheila in OK Posted June 11, 2008 Author Share Posted June 11, 2008 Thanks for the replies! This is very helpful. OK, sounds like I should just bite the bullet and get the whole kit, just to be sure I have whatever I need. I am wondering now, though, if I should take a closer look at 1st grade . . hmmm. It's not that my ds *can't* add and subtract--he just still uses a lot of counting strategies, which as you know is a big no-no in MUS. Decisions, decisions.:tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in CA Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Thanks for the replies! This is very helpful. OK, sounds like I should just bite the bullet and get the whole kit, just to be sure I have whatever I need. I am wondering now, though, if I should take a closer look at 1st grade . . hmmm. It's not that my ds *can't* add and subtract--he just still uses a lot of counting strategies, which as you know is a big no-no in MUS. Decisions, decisions.:tongue_smilie: The 2nd grade text will review and reteach the 1st grade concepts. If your ds hits an area that is difficult for him you can just stop and camp on that a while until he understands. I personally don't think you need to go all the way back to the 1st grade with him. My two-cents... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfbrenda Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 I was very worried that my son would balk when we started 5th grade math this year and you know what? He hasn't said a single word!! I bought him some quad paper notebooks (the kind with the little squares) for writing his math problems in...perhaps that was the magic 'ticket.' :D My son started 5th grade BJU this year and hasn't complained a bit either. I think it helps that there is enough practice, instead of being too much. I am using BJU with 3 of my boys and so far have used K through 5th. I love it! I agree that the 3rd edition is a great improvement. I also love the review books. That has given my boys the review and math fact drill that they need to help everything stick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyR Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 So far I've used BJU math for grades K-3rd grade . Its an excellent math program for children who grasp math well . I don't recommend it if you have a child that needs constant repetition though . We didn't do grade 4 last year and I regret it ( we did Calvert math ,, yuck ! ) . My 10 year old is begging for her BJU math . So I will get this for her . I think its an excellent math program for children who like lots of color and grasp math concepts easily :>) That's my two cents . Plus they have the perfect amount of math problems per grade level as to not to overload and frustrate them :>) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheila in OK Posted June 11, 2008 Author Share Posted June 11, 2008 The 2nd grade text will review and reteach the 1st grade concepts. If your ds hits an area that is difficult for him you can just stop and camp on that a while until he understands. I personally don't think you need to go all the way back to the 1st grade with him. My two-cents... Good point! Guess that would be another reason to get the whole kit, with the review books and all. I just got my new RR catalog today and see that they are carrying the new edition for grade 2. Thanks again for all the input! :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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