Classrooms & Textbooks Outside US

[Jeanine in TX]

The Atlantic Monthly recently posted an article titled "Why Innovation Can't Fix America's Classrooms". http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/12/why-innovation-cant-fix-americas-classrooms/249524/

 

I thought one of the comments in response to the article was particularly interesting. I am hoping to get some feedback on this from those who live overseas. The comments are probably true for literature, but what about history and science?

 

Atlantic Monthly Reader Comment

Another issue is the required and approved textbook system in the US. A total corrupt marketing and money making enterprise. I can't tell you how many American textbooks I've owned that were nothing more than 300+ pages of wasted paper compared to classes I've taken overseas where there were no required textbooks. Instead we were given suggested reading, of which 80 to 90% was available in the library, but were encouraged to source our own books, the internet, and do our own research into learning materials. It is amazing how much you can learn from a well written 30 page book or journal, compared to a useless 300+ page bloat-text that was designed to simply be big.

[Jeanine in TX]

Haven't heard from anyone overseas.

 

Is anyone in America familiar with the approach recommended in the comments to the Atlantic Monthly article? I also would be interested in reading anyone else's comments to the original comments. WTM Hive always has the best ideas anyway. :001_smile:

[Heather in Neverland]

Some of these uniquely American solutions -- charter schools, private school vouchers, entrepreneurial innovations, grade-by-grade testing, diminished teachers' unions, and basing teachers' pay on how their students do on standardized tests -- may be appealing on their surface. To many in the financial community, these market-inspired reform ideas are very appealing.

 

Um, these are not uniquely American. I work with educators from all over SE Asia and while vouchers from the government are not common, grade level testing is everywhere as are the equivalent of charter schools. Diminished teacher unions? There are no teacher unions in this area! And teachers here maynot get paid more for high test scores...nope, they'll just lose their jobs period if the kids don't score well. Standardized testing is the way of life here. Makes me wonder if this guy did any research whatsoever.

 

And the quote you gave about not using textbooks? Also not true. The school curricula in Asia is heavily regulated and standardized. Every single school in Singapore uses the exact same textbook and they always score at the top.

 

Even the part about teacher training being more rigorous is not true although the part about it being a respected profession is true (but it still doesn't pay all that well).

 

Oh yes, and the part about spending so much time and effort on the hardest to teach kids is LAUGHABLE. Those kids are beaten into submission. There is no such thing as failure in asian countires. You WILL perform or you will regret it. If you aren't an excellent student you will spend your life in tutoring for hours every day and you will be an outcast... Shamed. Special Ed programs are unheard of. They send those kids to a separate school and wash their hands of them.

Edited December 8, 2011 by Heather in NC

[stripe]

The corruption of the textbook approval process or the poor quality of the resulting textbooks is one issue. The idea that one sources his or her own textbooks relies on a good library system, which may exist in parts of Asia ad Europe, but is certainly not universal outside the US.

 

Many countries don't have year by year testing but have a "make or break" test at the end of primary school; high scores are required before one can apply for high school, because, unlike the US, high school attendance is not compulsory on the part of the child, and admission of unprepared students not required by the schools.

 

I can tell you, I certainly have textbooks from non-US countries, some of which I bought overseas. I am not sure how one would "source" textbooks for math, grammar, foreign language, or science. Primary documents mit be used in some religion or history contexts, but I can't really picture the others, aside from, say, selecting a good quality dictionary.

[Dmmetler]

Are the textbooks overseas really fewer pages? I'm using New Primary Mathematics from Singapore-the current syllabus from Singapore, in the edition published for Singapore schools, with my DD, and the main program is two textbooks and four workbooks per year (I must admit, I LIKE the two workbooks per textbook-they lie completely flat). I'm not sure, page by page, that this is significantly less than a US textbook. That's not counting the supplemental books, either.

 

I do think that the Singapore books are probably cheaper to produce, because the workbooks are completely black and white, while the US ones are full color through both the instruction and practice problem sections, and the Singapore books are paper bound while the US ones are hard copy-but then, maybe the US books are reused more?

[sewingmama]

Another issue is the required and approved textbook system in the US. A total corrupt marketing and money making enterprise. I can't tell you how many American textbooks I've owned that were nothing more than 300+ pages of wasted paper compared to classes I've taken overseas where there were no required textbooks. Instead we were given suggested reading, of which 80 to 90% was available in the library, but were encouraged to source our own books, the internet, and do our own research into learning materials. It is amazing how much you can learn from a well written 30 page book or journal, compared to a useless 300+ page bloat-text that was designed to simply be big.

 

Semi true in Australia but not till University level.

 

In high school we used textbooks (I have the bad back to prove it since we didn't have lockers). Not sure what they do now but my DH taught high school till last year and used a lot of text books.

 

At University level you do use a textbook but when you are doing your own assignments you use the library resources. You are also given a huge list of suggested reading - which nobody reads because you barely have time to do the required stuff and read the textbook.

 

Our teachers are paid quite well here in Australia compared to the US (my DH was making 80 000 as a regular high school teacher) however teaching is still thought of as a low status profession. To get accepted into Education at University you do not have to get good marks at school - in fact a lot of the teachers in training I came across had barely passed high school (and some had failed and been accepted anyway to fulfil a quota say of female students or Aboriginal students). A large per cent of teachers leave the profession within the first 5 years - the burnout rate is high. So in Australia at least higher wages does not equal higher prestige or better results from students.

 

 

I taught in South Korea for a while - textbooks reigned supreme. You were not allowed to deviate from them and most of them were very poor quality becasue cheap is what they were aiming for. The students got very upset if you suggested getting information from elsewhere - they were always saying "But teacher we need a textbook". They did use the internet a lot for assignments but most of it was simply cut and pasted. Not one student knew how to get information on their own and transfer it to paper in a way that wasn't plagerised - they just didn't know how to do anything unless it was a straight forward regurgatation of facts from the textbook. The #1 reason Asian students do better then the US is because of the enormous amount of extra tutoring they do after school. The state curriculum is just average - the textbooks are poor but if you were required to attend tutoring classes from 4pm to 10 pm 5 days a week and half a day on Saturday well even the most average student would be getting great marks. For those who have special needs or have trouble learning -they are just passed along and never failed. I was told often who the "dumb" (yes they used that word) students were at the beginning of my classes and was told to do anything I could think of to make it look like they passed. They were not given extra help - the school just gave them passing grades so their parents would not be ashamed. The parents knew they were failing, the school knew they were failing but is shameful to fail in school so no one is ever failed - they get a pass regardless so they can look good on paper. They are never, ever given any special help - everyone just makes allowances for the "dumb" kid so they are not shamed for their lack of ability. And I take those high test results with a grain of salt. Cheating is commonplace and allowed in SK - every test I ever gave I would catch nearly the entire class reading answers written on their bodies, in their pencil cases, on the desk etc. It's the reason they only liked using textbooks - because then they could always have the right answer written down to copy from. The pressure is so intense everyone cheats - and the school allows it so that their test scores look good or people will not send their child to that school.

Edited December 8, 2011 by sewingmama

[regentrude]

Are the textbooks overseas really fewer pages?

 

YES!

In Germany, high school textbooks are slim paperback volumes- a history or science text will be 350 pages or so. Compared to US textbooks, they use a smaller font (some US Jr High texts look as if they are written for beginning readers), more consecutive text, fewer meaningless pictures and sidebar graphs. In public schools in Germany, textbooks are required. (Many states have arrangements where the books are property of the school and lent to the students; students have to return the books at the end of the school year.)

 

Textbooks are approved by the state, not the school district. Teachers have to use the books, but do not have to be slaves to them; there will be other materials and projects. One major difference is that German teachers have a much better expertise in their subjects because they are required to have studied the specific subject they teach (math will be taught by a teacher strained in math, physics by a teacher trained to teach physics - a biology teacher would not be allowed to do it). So, teachers are able to use the books much more effectively because they have mastered the material themselves.

 

At the university level, there are often no required textbooks and the students have a list of suggested books which they can get from the library. At least, this was the case before they started introducing the watered down bachelor system... now there is more handholding and babysitting through university than it used to be when I went to school.

[regentrude]

I guess I'd like to see the data the article is based on. This statement:

"The top performing nations have followed paths that are remarkably similar and straightforward. Most start by putting more money behind their hardest-to-educate students than those who are easier to educate. In the U.S., we do the opposite." is not reflective of my area.

.

 

:iagree:

This statement had me puzzled, too.

In the US, the easiest to educate students fall through the cracks. If you compare money spent on special ed with money spent on gifted education, the discrepancy will become glaringly obvious. The mandate to provide struggling students with an education is taken seriously; gifted students are left to fend for themselves without receiving the resources they would need to meet their own special educational needs.

[stripe]

There was a fascinating piece on the PBS Newshour on S Korea in Jan.

 

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/education/jan-june11/koreaschools_01-21.html