Ds9 showing growing anger. HELP!

[BabyBre]

Ds9 has shown increasing angst this school year. He typically is quick to react in a negative way to circumstances he doesn't like. It's particularly bad when it comes to school, I believe, because he is frustrated with the pace of his public school classroom. He should be able to attend a full-time gifted school next year which I pray will help, but in the meantime, his anger seems to be growing and he's taking it out on his sister, his parents, even his teachers, and no doubt his classmates. This morning a little spat with his sister turned into name calling (which is not allowed in our house) and a physical attack that left her with bleeding scratches! It's the last straw. It has to stop.

 

I've never had a child who resorted to violence and hateful language and actions before. I don't really know what to do. Grounding has been ineffective, spanking just increases his anger. He already feels second fiddle to his sister who is bright and mature in many ways that he is not. This just feels like a potentially volatile situation if we don't get it under control.

 

I will appreciate any and all advice, thoughts, and/or experience!! Thank you!

[jenbrdsly]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

Have you tried a token economy?

An idea from the SENG conference was to make a labryinth and send your kid out there to walk it in order to calm down. I don't really think that idea works though.

 

 

Good luck!!!

[beaners]

Ds9 has shown increasing angst this school year. He typically is quick to react in a negative way to circumstances he doesn't like.

 

I'm probably only thinking of this because I read the first book and I'm nearly finished with the second, but I've been reading some things by Martin Seligman. First I read Learned Optimism, and now I'm reading the Optimistic Child. It doesn't deal specifically with giftedness, but I think a lot of the techniques would work especially well with a child who has a good self-concept, which is something a lot of gifted children develop earlier than their peers.

 

I'd also rule out any diet, environmental, or medical causes if this is a new and very out-of-character development.

[BabyBre]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

Have you tried a token economy?

 

An idea from the SENG conference was to make a labryinth and send your kid out there to walk it in order to calm down. I don't really think that idea works though.

 

Good luck!!!

 

Thank you, I'll check out that link. While I think the labryinth would disarm him the first couple times, he eventually would sit there in the middle with his arms folded and a hateful look on his face! :confused:

 

I'm probably only thinking of this because I read the first book and I'm nearly finished with the second, but I've been reading some things by Martin Seligman. First I read Learned Optimism, and now I'm reading the Optimistic Child. It doesn't deal specifically with giftedness, but I think a lot of the techniques would work especially well with a child who has a good self-concept, which is something a lot of gifted children develop earlier than their peers.

 

I'd also rule out any diet, environmental, or medical causes if this is a new and very out-of-character development.

 

Thank you, I'll look into those, too.

 

He does have some minor food allergies - so apparently minor we don't exclude them from his diet - but that may be worth scrutinizing again in this light. One of them is corn, which is in many, many things.

 

Thanks!

[boscopup]

He does have some minor food allergies - so apparently minor we don't exclude them from his diet - but that may be worth scrutinizing again in this light. One of them is corn, which is in many, many things.

 

Food allergies can have a huge affect on behavior! My DS2 has fructose mal-absorption. He's gotten better in the last year, but it used to be if he had a single apple or glass of juice, etc., his behavior would be horrid. Took the fructose/fructans (whole wheat has fructans) away and he was a sweet little boy again. I was shocked at how such a small thing could affect his behavior so much.

 

I'd definitely suggest removing any known allergens completely and see if that helps his behavior. And if it doesn't, you might want to talk to his doctor to get him evaluated for any other medical issues that could cause such behavior.

 

:grouphug:

[Mommy22alyns]

Food allergies can have a huge affect on behavior! My DS2 has fructose mal-absorption. He's gotten better in the last year, but it used to be if he had a single apple or glass of juice, etc., his behavior would be horrid. Took the fructose/fructans (whole wheat has fructans) away and he was a sweet little boy again. I was shocked at how such a small thing could affect his behavior so much.

 

I'd definitely suggest removing any known allergens completely and see if that helps his behavior. And if it doesn't, you might want to talk to his doctor to get him evaluated for any other medical issues that could cause such behavior.

 

:grouphug:

 

 

Also on that line of thinking, has he been on any medications lately? Rebecca is very sensitive to Claritin and longer-acting allergy meds and she turns into a demon child if she's on them. Just something else to consider.

[BabyBre]

Also on that line of thinking, has he been on any medications lately? Rebecca is very sensitive to Claritin and longer-acting allergy meds and she turns into a demon child if she's on them. Just something else to consider.

 

 

Jeez, he takes a handful every morning - Zyrtec, Singulair, and Pulmicort (inhaled steroid). But he's so much healthier when he takes them consistently (by that I mean he stays out of the hospital), how in the world do I find out if he has a sensitivity?

 

I have a feeling his doctors would be clueless about behavior issues related to his meds or even allergies. It definitely sounds like something I'll have to take the reins on. We're cutting out corn again and will monitor closely.

 

Thank you!!

[choirfarm]

I found this quote about aggression using Pulmicort. I just wondered about that because I know when I have to be on a steriod, I cannot sleep and I feel just so angry and keyed up. I just wonder about your son.

http://angryasthmamama.blogspot.com/2008/03/pulmicort-roid-rage-response-to.html

 

I googled and found TONS of information on aggression in kids taking Singulair. Here is part of the warning ( I notice it was from 2009) that the company released to doctors.

Neuropsychiatric events have been reported in adult, adolescent, and pediatric patients taking SINGULAIR. Post-marketing reports with SINGULAIR use include agitation, aggressive behavior or hostility, anxiousness, depression, dream abnormalities, hallucinations, insomnia, irritability, restlessness, somnambulism, suicidal thinking and behavior (including suicide), and tremor. The clinical details of some post-marketing reports involving SINGULAIR appear consistent with a drug-induced effect.

Patients and prescribers should be alert for neuropsychiatric events. Patients should be instructed to notify their prescriber if these changes occur. Prescribers should carefully evaluate the risks and benefits of continuing treatment with SINGULAIR if such events occur

 

 

It sounds like your son has Asthma. Talk to your doctor. I know it can be dangerous to just stop these medications, so don't do that. But do call and talk to them about what you have seen.

Jeez, he takes a handful every morning - Zyrtec, Singulair, and Pulmicort (inhaled steroid). But he's so much healthier when he takes them consistently (by that I mean he stays out of the hospital), how in the world do I find out if he has a sensitivity?

 

I have a feeling his doctors would be clueless about behavior issues related to his meds or even allergies. It definitely sounds like something I'll have to take the reins on. We're cutting out corn again and will monitor closely.

 

Thank you!!

Edited November 30, 2011 by choirfarm

[BabyBre]

I found this quote about aggression using Pulmicort. I just wondered about that because I know when I have to be on a steriod, I cannot sleep and I feel just so angry and keyed up. I just wonder about your son.

http://angryasthmamama.blogspot.com/2008/03/pulmicort-roid-rage-response-to.html

 

I googled and found TONS of information on aggression in kids taking Singulair. Here is part of the warning ( I notice it was from 2009) that the company released to doctors.

Neuropsychiatric events have been reported in adult, adolescent, and pediatric patients taking SINGULAIR. Post-marketing reports with SINGULAIR use include agitation, aggressive behavior or hostility, anxiousness, depression, dream abnormalities, hallucinations, insomnia, irritability, restlessness, somnambulism, suicidal thinking and behavior (including suicide), and tremor. The clinical details of some post-marketing reports involving SINGULAIR appear consistent with a drug-induced effect.

Patients and prescribers should be alert for neuropsychiatric events. Patients should be instructed to notify their prescriber if these changes occur. Prescribers should carefully evaluate the risks and benefits of continuing treatment with SINGULAIR if such events occur

 

 

It sounds like your son has Asthma. Talk to your doctor. I know it can be dangerous to just stop these medications, so don't do that. But do call and talk to them about what you have seen.

 

 

Wow, thank you! I will definitely be looking into this. He does have asthma and allergies, primarily to animals (of which we have none).

[BabyBre]

Jeez, he takes a handful every morning - Zyrtec, Singulair, and Pulmicort (inhaled steroid).

 

My dear ds just corrected me. He takes Symbicort, not Pulmicort. :tongue_smilie: He used to take Pulmicort, however, and Symbicort is still a steroid.

[choirfarm]

Still has the same side effects http://www.sidefxdrugs.com/view.php?drugnum=3&show=all

 

 

Medicine is such an inexact science. Just talk to your doctor. Medicines affect people differently. Take me: steriods are not good for me ( but I can understand that they may be your only option). I'll just itch ( had to have it for my poison ivy not for life threatening asthma). I got the flu several years ago and they gave me that medicine that is supposed to make it less severe. Oh my goodness. I didn't sleep for 3 days straight. i would close my eyes and wake up with a start after 10 minutes. I started having hallucinations. As soon as I quit taking the medicine, I was fine. I'll just take the flu next time ( well, actually I get the shot). Also, I have sensitivity to the whooping cough vaccine, which I passed on to my daughter so she can't take that one either.

 

All this to say, that medicines are a very inexact science. You have to know your body best. Doctors are human ( my dh is one). Some are better than others. Talk to yours about what you have seen and if he isn't reponsive, find another one.

[heart'sjoy]

http://www.ccps.info/cpssentials/index.html

 

We've experienced the change from occassionally angry normal kid stuff to attacking siblings. Shocked the stew out of me too.

 

Here's the direction we've been going the last 2 years. Problems still come up. Anger is still there but my kid is invested in this collaborative problem solving and believes that a solution can be found.

:grouphug:

[EmilyK]

Having my son tested for food intolerances and then eliminating those foods made a huge difference for us. I also recommend reading The Explosive Child.

[BabyBre]

Thank you all for your input.

 

Ds's doctor began with reducing his dose of Symbicort by half. Almost two weeks and I haven't noticed any change in his behavior, but his lung function has worsened. :glare:

 

The pharmicist hadn't even heard of aggression as a side effect of Singulair, but I was glad his doctor had and said we'd try adjusting that next if needed.

[Jaybee]

Zyrtec can have some pretty strong side effects as well, especially after a time. I can't take it. It started out as one of the most effective sinus meds I had used, but eventually I built up side effects and couldn't sleep, etc. When I tried to reintroduce it, they came back.

[BabyBre]

Zyrtec can have some pretty strong side effects as well, especially after a time. I can't take it. It started out as one of the most effective sinus meds I had used, but eventually I built up side effects and couldn't sleep, etc. When I tried to reintroduce it, they came back.

 

Ugh. I HATE that he takes so many meds. When he forgot them at breakfast this morning, we knew it by lunch time because he was wheezing.

 

I'm not convinced Zyrtec has many benefits for him, though. It seems to me he builds a tolerance to it pretty quickly.

[jenbrdsly]

Ugh. I HATE that he takes so many meds. When he forgot them at breakfast this morning, we knew it by lunch time because he was wheezing.

 

I'm not convinced Zyrtec has many benefits for him, though. It seems to me he builds a tolerance to it pretty quickly.

 

Zyrtec totally zonked me out when I took it as a tween. They finally switched me to Claritin. Eventually that stopped working and I switched to Allegra. Now as an adult, I'm back to Zyrtec.

For me the biggest help is being an adult who is in charge of my own furnishings. We only have leather, wood, or things that can be encased. A Roomba can really help too, because that way you can vacuum every day.

But back to the behavior thing, have you read the stuff about Dabrowski? Maybe you are dealing with a kid who would score high on the Emotional end as well as the Psychomotor end. That doesn't solve your problem at all, but might give you some insight and make you feel better knowing that other parents of gifted children deal with similar things.

:grouphug:

[joannqn]

:grouphug::lurk5:

 

 

Gosh! I could have almost written your post right down to the more mature sister that he envies.

 

DS9 struggles with depression and anger. When he was younger, he had severe learning delays that turned out to be caused by lactose intolerance (caught up once that was treated). One of the issues we dealt with back then was rage. We felt the rage was due to frustration from not being able to communicate. Because of that, we are planning on going dairy free again January 1st. I decided to wait because I'm not sure if it will help, and I wanted to get past Christmas and his birthday before switching (no one is thrilled about it).

 

He was put on Zyrtec and had severe mood swings from it immediately. He'd go from normal to raging to hiding under the table crying hysterically in minutes. He was only on it for four days total.

 

He's been on Zoloft for depression since February. His dosage was upped in June and upped again today. We felt like it helped initially but then the benefits decreased. While we thought it wasn't helping, we realized in talking to the doctor that it is helping because he's not talking suicide anymore. He's still struggling which is why the dosage was upped.

 

If I had to diagnose him in my limited understanding of such things, I'd say my son is struggling with gifted issues (being different, strong emotions, no peers), mild Aspergers, depression, and parents who don't know how or can't find the resources to help him.

 

I don't know if any of that helps, but I do know it sometimes helps to know you are not alone.

[BabyBre]

:grouphug::lurk5:

 

 

Gosh! I could have almost written your post right down to the more mature sister that he envies.

 

DS9 struggles with depression and anger. When he was younger, he had severe learning delays that turned out to be caused by lactose intolerance (caught up once that was treated). One of the issues we dealt with back then was rage. We felt the rage was due to frustration from not being able to communicate. Because of that, we are planning on going dairy free again January 1st. I decided to wait because I'm not sure if it will help, and I wanted to get past Christmas and his birthday before switching (no one is thrilled about it).

 

He was put on Zyrtec and had severe mood swings from it immediately. He'd go from normal to raging to hiding under the table crying hysterically in minutes. He was only on it for four days total.

 

He's been on Zoloft for depression since February. His dosage was upped in June and upped again today. We felt like it helped initially but then the benefits decreased. While we thought it wasn't helping, we realized in talking to the doctor that it is helping because he's not talking suicide anymore. He's still struggling which is why the dosage was upped.

 

If I had to diagnose him in my limited understanding of such things, I'd say my son is struggling with gifted issues (being different, strong emotions, no peers), mild Aspergers, depression, and parents who don't know how or can't find the resources to help him.

 

I don't know if any of that helps, but I do know it sometimes helps to know you are not alone.

 

 

Thanks, JoAnn. It does help. I'm really starting to take a closer look at his medications. Just in this post with relatively few participants, there are side effects of agression or mood swings attributed to each of the meds he's taking. Put them all together and my poor baby probably doesn't stand a chance.

 

I hadn't heard much before about Zyrtec causing mood swings, but I'm going to mention that to his doctor, too.

 

Thanks.

[jenbrdsly]

Thanks, JoAnn. It does help. I'm really starting to take a closer look at his medications. Just in this post with relatively few participants, there are side effects of agression or mood swings attributed to each of the meds he's taking. Put them all together and my poor baby probably doesn't stand a chance.

 

I hadn't heard much before about Zyrtec causing mood swings, but I'm going to mention that to his doctor, too.

 

Thanks.

 

I don't know about mood swings (as my husband ), but Zyrtec use to knock me out when I was little, like I said. Sleep deprivation on its own can cause all sorts of behavioral issues. So have you examined if there is a connection between allergy meds, sleep, and behavior? Just a thought.

[choirfarm]

Thanks, JoAnn. It does help. I'm really starting to take a closer look at his medications. Just in this post with relatively few participants, there are side effects of agression or mood swings attributed to each of the meds he's taking. Put them all together and my poor baby probably doesn't stand a chance.

 

I hadn't heard much before about Zyrtec causing mood swings, but I'm going to mention that to his doctor, too.

 

Thanks.

 

Do make sure you are working closely with a doctor. You don't want to mess with his breathing. We are all just moms and the interernet can be a source of misinformation. Just to show that medicines can be different for different people, my oldest has taken Zyrtec daily for a couple of year for his allergy/asthma. He hasn't had any side effects that we have noticed, but boy do we notice when he doesn't take it.

 

So always work with his doctor. Sometimes it is a trade off. It sounds like his asthma can be life threatening.

[Dana]

Do make sure you are working closely with a doctor. You don't want to mess with his breathing. We are all just moms and the interernet can be a source of misinformation. Just to show that medicines can be different for different people, my oldest has taken Zyrtec daily for a couple of year for his allergy/asthma. He hasn't had any side effects that we have noticed, but boy do we notice when he doesn't take it.

 

So always work with his doctor. Sometimes it is a trade off. It sounds like his asthma can be life threatening.

 

:iagree:

 

My son's been on Zyrtec daily for about 4 years and doesn't have any problems with it.

 

However... when he's needed nebulizer breathing treatments, we give him Xopanex. When he's had Albuterol, he would get MAD! We could see a tremendous difference in his personality. I wouldn't have known there was an alternative to the Albuterol had I not mentioned his meanness to his allergist who promptly had us try Xopanex instead.

 

Good luck!

[Spock]

Thank you all for your input.

 

Ds's doctor began with reducing his dose of Symbicort by half. Almost two weeks and I haven't noticed any change in his behavior, but his lung function has worsened. :glare:

 

The pharmicist hadn't even heard of aggression as a side effect of Singulair, but I was glad his doctor had and said we'd try adjusting that next if needed.

 

Zyrtec makes ME extremely angry and bad tempered. When I switched to a different allergy medicine, I also discovered that Zyrtec over the long term had made my allergies more severe--they are milder when I take other allergy medicines, and I need them less often.

 

My second son took Singulair for 2 years (around age 11-13). While it worked wonders for his asthma, he began to behave very strangely while taking it. He would perch like Nightcrawler (the X-man), and would make eagle calls anywhere--including in public. He did many other things he is now ashamed of (overall, he behaved as though he had mild autism). When he stopped taking it for other reasons, his strange behaviors vanished. He also grew 6 inches in just a few months, after not growing at all while taking Singulair. Until he stopped taking Singulair, we had thought the strange behaviors were just him. He has always had a few borderline Asperger's symptoms, and we thought those had just moved from borderline into actual Asperger's as he grew older. He also used an inhaler during those years and for a year or so after stopping the Singulair, but I don't remember what kind.

[BabyBre]

My second son took Singulair for 2 years (around age 11-13). While it worked wonders for his asthma, he began to behave very strangely while taking it. He would perch like Nightcrawler (the X-man), and would make eagle calls anywhere--including in public. He did many other things he is now ashamed of (overall, he behaved as though he had mild autism). When he stopped taking it for other reasons, his strange behaviors vanished. He also grew 6 inches in just a few months, after not growing at all while taking Singulair. Until he stopped taking Singulair, we had thought the strange behaviors were just him. He has always had a few borderline Asperger's symptoms, and we thought those had just moved from borderline into actual Asperger's as he grew older. He also used an inhaler during those years and for a year or so after stopping the Singulair, but I don't remember what kind.

 

 

Just the thought of all this is starting to make me furious. You trust your doctor to prescribe the proper medications, but I'm having to do my own research to discover there may be tremendous side effects on his behavior and personality. My little boy hasn't been himself for years, and it may be because of these meds? :mad:

 

There is clearly something wrong with this system.

[choirfarm]

Just the thought of all this is starting to make me furious. You trust your doctor to prescribe the proper medications, but I'm having to do my own research to discover there may be tremendous side effects on his behavior and personality. My little boy hasn't been himself for years, and it may be because of these meds? :mad:

 

There is clearly something wrong with this system.

 

HOnestly, there is too much out there for a doctor to keep up with. He wasn't doing it on purpose. He is being truthful with as much as he knows. And it may NOT be making him this way. He may just have these problems without the medications. And please be careful. It sounds like being without medication could be lifethreatening. So your doc is in between a rock and a hard place. If he suggests something else and you try it and it doesn't control his asthma and he dies..... Then he is liable. Doctors cannot win.... There is no way they can even know for sure how a medicine will interact with each individual person..

[Jaybee]

"Just the thought of all this is starting to make me furious. You trust your doctor to prescribe the proper medications, but I'm having to do my own research to discover there may be tremendous side effects on his behavior and personality. My little boy hasn't been himself for years, and it may be because of these meds?"

 

The problem is that these meds affect different people in different ways. That makes it so complicated to figure out. What works for one causes extreme side effects in another, and it is not static but changes over time, plus you have the meds interactions with each other as well. I had bronchitis four times last year in a span of six months. It was severe enough that I needed strong antibiotics to clear it up. In trying to find a preventive regimen, my doctor and I worked through quite a few meds. Some (Singulair, for example) that are very effective for others did almost nothing for me. Zyrtec worked at first, but then the side effects just started building up and multiplying. Finally, taking Clarityn (which doesn't work well for me alone) with two puffs of Xenopex(sp?? it's upstairs) at night, is working very well for me right now. So sometimes, in spite of the doc's best efforts, it is a matter of experimentation, which is hard when doing nothing is not really an option.