X-post:HELP! DD not understanding word problems in Algebra or Physical Science

[Jen the RD]

The past 2 weeks have been excrutiatingly difficult in math/science with my 8th grade dd. She is using Lial's Intro Algebra and CPO Physical Science. We breezed through the 1st chapter of Lial's, but now in ch 2 with more application of algebra concepts to word problems, dd is completely shutting down. I've been telling dh how this has been, and today, HE experienced it first hand and came to tell me..."We've got to do something differently. Get a tutor, find another program, something. She is losing confidence and getting demoralized."

 

She is also doing the same thing in science. She literally cries because she can't put into words an answer. She told me the other day, she just couldn't grasp the material. (We were discussing acceleration, speed, velocity, and graphs associated with them.) I am teaching the material in both subjects and she just isn't getting it.

 

I don't know if we've jumped the gun on increasing difficulty in her subjects too soon. I'm so puzzled. She excelled in pre-algebra last year and I thought surely she was ready for algebra, and thereby ready to apply some algebraic math in science.

 

I know I'm not the only one who has experienced this, so PLEASE, would you all help me out with some words of wisdom.

 

Thank you so much,

[Sweet Home Alabama]

Jen,

We're using the same things for math and science. Dd is in Jann from Tx's Alg. I class which is a huge help because I do not want to teach math....or science.:D

 

I book marked a link from Pearson several months ago that I recently ran across. Find the text you are using and follow the prompts. This may help you step through some of the troublesome problems so that you can help your dd:

 

http://interactmath.com/home.aspx

 

As for CPO, we're using the Foundations book. My dh is the science expert. I check answers with dd orally, but he does the labs and explains physics concepts. Several who are using CPO have found errors with problems/solutions.... can't remember if you were in that thread or not. This has certainly been frustrating.

 

This being the case, if you determine that physical science is only for exposure sake to prep for high school physics, chem, and bio, that may take some of the pressure off. Talk about why an answer is wrong and what would make it right. At least this way, you can still use the text and learn from it.

 

There is Khan Academy and The Teaching Company videos. I recently bought Physics in Your Life on sale..... have only watched one lecture. But something like these may give background information to help explain concepts. They would take time to watch, and time is something we have precious too little of around here.

 

I understand where you are. This is a tough year for my dd in 8th who is also taking a high school level Comp I class. She's learning a LOT about working efficiently and meeting deadlines.

[Jen the RD]

Bless you for responding, Sweet Home Alabama! Jann responded to my post on the HS board, so that has helped. I appreciate the link you posted....I'm too tired and frustrated to look at it right now. LOL! I'll do that tomorrow. As far as CPO, yes, I am one of the ones who's found errors. Your suggestion for the khan videos is a good one. I have the DIVE CD, but I consider it only OK, because it has such limited info on each topic. How are those TC videos? Does your dd get it or are they at a level above Intro to Physics?

 

Thanks for responding. I hope I've made sense. I'm beat. Gotta go to bed!

 

Jennifer

[Sweet Home Alabama]

Bless you for responding, Sweet Home Alabama! Jann responded to my post on the HS board, so that has helped. I appreciate the link you posted....I'm too tired and frustrated to look at it right now. LOL! I'll do that tomorrow. As far as CPO, yes, I am one of the ones who's found errors. Your suggestion for the khan videos is a good one. I have the DIVE CD, but I consider it only OK, because it has such limited info on each topic. How are those TC videos? Does your dd get it or are they at a level above Intro to Physics?

 

Thanks for responding. I hope I've made sense. I'm beat. Gotta go to bed!

 

Jennifer

 

She has not seen the videos yet. I bought them with the intent of either using them to supplement CPO physics this year or possible for algebra-based physics for next year..... IF that is what we end up doing. The video lesson I watched was great! The teaching was not too advanced. I can't speak for all of the other lectures, but I liked the teacher and the way he taught. You never know what kind of prof you'll get with TTC videos. I've like some and disliked others. This one is pleasant. I enjoyed the lesson.

 

Regentrude recommends College Physics by Knight, Jones, and Fields for algebra-based physics. I found the 1st edition of this used on Amazon for a great price, and I'm just reading them in leisure time to get familiar with them.

Edited October 24, 2011 by Sweet Home Alabama

[8filltheheart]

I know nothing about Lials, but Foerster's instruction is very clear and he teaches them step by step how to set up problems. It might be a better fit.

 

Why not switch to life science right now until she gets her confidence in math? There is absolutely no need to have a math in science breakdown at 13. Postpone physics and chemistry topics for a while.

[jennynd]

for the physics,

Could you use her life experience to explain velocity and acceleration? For example, airplane. when it cruising it is the same velocity. bit when it ready to take off, it is accelerating. I found it is a lot easier to explain physics with experience rather than just follow the book

[snowbeltmom]

I don't have any experience with the curricula you are using, but if your dc is having trouble solving word problems, you may want to try Hands-on-Equations before you move any further ahead in math.

 

With HOE the student uses manipulatives to build the equations. Sometimes physically modelling a problem helps the concept to click.

[Jen the RD]

She has not seen the videos yet. I bought them with the intent of either using them to supplement CPO physics this year or possible for algebra-based physics for next year..... IF that is what we end up doing. The video lesson I watched was great! The teaching was not too advanced. I can't speak for all of the other lectures, but I liked the teacher and the way he taught. You never know what kind of prof you'll get with TTC videos. I've like some and disliked others. This one is pleasant. I enjoyed the lesson.

 

Regentrude recommends College Physics by Knight, Jones, and Fields for algebra-based physics. I found the 1st edition of this used on Amazon for a great price, and I'm just reading them in leisure time to get familiar with them.

 

Keep me posted as you watch the videos and read the book. At this point, I'm not sure the "physics first" path is going to be the right one for us.

 

Jennifer

[Jen the RD]

I know nothing about Lials, but Foerster's instruction is very clear and he teaches them step by step how to set up problems. It might be a better fit.

 

Why not switch to life science right now until she gets her confidence in math? There is absolutely no need to have a math in science breakdown at 13. Postpone physics and chemistry topics for a while.

 

8fillTheHeart, I bought Lial's based on the reviews about its explicit instruction. I've seen Foerster's cheap on amazon, so I may just buy it and compare the two, especially with regard to word problems. Jann in TX responded in my xpost saying that word problems are taught more thoroughly later in Lial's. She said the crux of the algebra concepts really begin in ch 3, which we haven't gotten to yet. We've been hung up in ch 2. I'm really wondering if she would benefit from a "live" teacher besides me.

 

As far as science, I agree with you that 13 is too young to have a "meltdown" in science. I don't want her to hate or to be afraid of math or science. I took physical science in 8th grade and that was when I made my first C's, ever. It was like a foreign language to me; I didn't understand ANYTHING! That started my path in science on the wrong foot and I certainly don't want dd to have that same experience. It took me years to regain my confidence in it.

 

She's already done life science (BJU-last year). She really loved studying about plants, but she wasn't crazy about the BJU text. We looked at BJU Earth for this year, but she just didn't want to use their text. We've never done much earth science, so I've thought about maybe pursuing some of those topics. I'm not sure what books/text to use if I go that direction. I suppose I could also just make the physics/chem more of an "exposure" course without all the math and just have fun with the experiments. So, if you have any other insights, I welcome them.

 

Thanks,

Jennifer

[Jen the RD]

for the physics,

Could you use her life experience to explain velocity and acceleration? For example, airplane. when it cruising it is the same velocity. bit when it ready to take off, it is accelerating. I found it is a lot easier to explain physics with experience rather than just follow the book

 

I have tirelessly come up with real life examples :tongue_smilie:. She seems to understand it at the time we're doing it, but when the book gives a problem that applies that info, she just looks at me with glazed eyes and says, "I don't get what their asking?" SIGHHHHHH....

 

I don't have any experience with the curricula you are using, but if your dc is having trouble solving word problems, you may want to try Hands-on-Equations before you move any further ahead in math.

 

With HOE the student uses manipulatives to build the equations. Sometimes physically modelling a problem helps the concept to click.

 

Hands-on-Equations...I've never heard of this. Where did you get it? Are there samples available??? Thanks for the tip.

 

Jennifer

[PeterPan]

Jen, what did you use for pre-algebra? Lial's gets bantied around like a remedial text, but it's actually pretty rigorous. Ok rigorous isn't the right word (compared to say Dolciani), but thorough with lots of sensible application. We're doing the pre-algebra now, and it has a fair number of real-life word problems in each lesson. In fact we were just doing DRT problems Friday. They tossed them in with a really light lesson on perimeter. It might be she just needs to back up and go through the pre-algebra quickly.

 

And this is my two cents, but I would NOT just up and change math curricula like Jack the Ripper is after you just because your dh got scared. Changing curricula ISN'T always the answer. You have to know what's wrong first. If she's misplaced or needs to see pre-algebra again to feel more solid, another algebra curriculum isn't the answer. ;) So don't let your man destabilize you and freak you out. Take your time and figure out what the real problem is. My dd does that "I don't really understand this" thing, and I think it's because she's very bright, somewhat VSL, dyslexic, and needs to VISUALIZE the math. So when she's saying she doesn't get it, it's that it hasn't yet visualized firmly in her mind. And for that you have to back up till it's easy enough that they CAN get the mental picture.

 

HOE is great, but I'd still get a hold of that Lial's pre-algebra book. Not BCM but the pre-algebra. My dd is a strong little math chicken, always scores well, thinks nicely with good problem-solving skills, but I can't *skip* levels and books with her. Sometimes you have to go back at it till they really have it. It would be fine to do both. We never finished HOE, so maybe that's something we get back to over Christmas and finish out. Their methodology is really good for visualization.

Edited October 24, 2011 by OhElizabeth

[kiana]

Y'know, you might also consider a supplement JUST for word problems.

 

When my brother was struggling I checked Barron's Painless Math Word Problems out of the library to help him.

 

There are many other similar supplements (because almost everyone struggles with changing from english to math and back again), so you might check and see if your local library has anything and give it a quick skim to see if it might fit the bill.

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

We've never done much earth science, so I've thought about maybe pursuing some of those topics.

 

 

A few thoughts. You said you didn't do alot of Earth Science topics, check this out. Its from Elemental. I didn't think it was out yet but apparently it is. I would recommend getting her math skills solid before attempting any math based science.

 

Now, on the math issue- check out this website. It breaks down algebraic word problems and teaches students how to solve them.

 

Again, I would wait on the science until next year. Get done with Algebra 1 and solid in it, then go on to the physical science you have. Get those math skills solid.

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

 

Regentrude recommends College Physics by Knight, Jones, and Fields for algebra-based physics. I found the 1st edition of this used on Amazon for a great price, and I'm just reading them in leisure time to get familiar with them.

 

I am very curious about this. Do you know if there are any online samples available?

[8filltheheart]

How about using several of the Plato middle school courses? My ds finished all 3 in a single yr w/o much effort (but he is a science fanatic.) Anyway, it might be a nice change of pace w/lecture and questions wrapped together and not getting bogged down in problems or a text.

 

https://www.homeschoolbuyersco-op.org/index.php?option=com_hsbc_epp_order&Itemid=1024&c=1'>https://www.homeschoolbuyersco-op.org/index.php?option=com_hsbc_epp_order&Itemid=1024&c=1

 

(Physical science description: https://www.homeschoolbuyersco-op.org/index.php?option=com_hsbc_epp_order&Itemid=1024&c=1

 

Earth/space description: http://www.homeschoolbuyersco-op.org/images/stories/groupbuys/earthandspace.pdf )

[snowbeltmom]

How about using several of the Plato middle school courses? My ds finished all 3 in a single yr w/o much effort (but he is a science fanatic.) Anyway, it might be a nice change of pace w/lecture and questions wrapped together and not getting bogged down in problems or a text.

 

 

:iagree: My science kid really liked these too.

[Sweet Home Alabama]

I am very curious about this. Do you know if there are any online samples available?

 

 

I don't know of on-line samples. I bought first edition copies used. The total for both books was something like $13.00 in like new condition from Amazon. For that price, they are reasonable for just checking out.

[Jen the RD]

How about using several of the Plato middle school courses? My ds finished all 3 in a single yr w/o much effort (but he is a science fanatic.) Anyway, it might be a nice change of pace w/lecture and questions wrapped together and not getting bogged down in problems or a text.

 

https://www.homeschoolbuyersco-op.org/index.php?option=com_hsbc_epp_order&Itemid=1024&c=1'>https://www.homeschoolbuyersco-op.org/index.php?option=com_hsbc_epp_order&Itemid=1024&c=1

 

(Physical science description: https://www.homeschoolbuyersco-op.org/index.php?option=com_hsbc_epp_order&Itemid=1024&c=1

 

Earth/space description: http://www.homeschoolbuyersco-op.org/images/stories/groupbuys/earthandspace.pdf )

 

:iagree: My science kid really liked these too.

 

Ooh...thanks for the Plato suggestion. These courses look really fun and interesting. I'm a little bit confused about the "time-slot" deal. Please explain this and tell me how it worked at your house.

 

Thanks,

Jennifer

[Jen the RD]

Jen, what did you use for pre-algebra? Lial's gets bantied around like a remedial text, but it's actually pretty rigorous. Ok rigorous isn't the right word (compared to say Dolciani), but thorough with lots of sensible application. We're doing the pre-algebra now, and it has a fair number of real-life word problems in each lesson. In fact we were just doing DRT problems Friday. They tossed them in with a really light lesson on perimeter. It might be she just needs to back up and go through the pre-algebra quickly.

 

And this is my two cents, but I would NOT just up and change math curricula like Jack the Ripper is after you just because your dh got scared. Changing curricula ISN'T always the answer. You have to know what's wrong first. If she's misplaced or needs to see pre-algebra again to feel more solid, another algebra curriculum isn't the answer. ;) So don't let your man destabilize you and freak you out. Take your time and figure out what the real problem is. My dd does that "I don't really understand this" thing, and I think it's because she's very bright, somewhat VSL, dyslexic, and needs to VISUALIZE the math. So when she's saying she doesn't get it, it's that it hasn't yet visualized firmly in her mind. And for that you have to back up till it's easy enough that they CAN get the mental picture.

 

HOE is great, but I'd still get a hold of that Lial's pre-algebra book. Not BCM but the pre-algebra. My dd is a strong little math chicken, always scores well, thinks nicely with good problem-solving skills, but I can't *skip* levels and books with her. Sometimes you have to go back at it till they really have it. It would be fine to do both. We never finished HOE, so maybe that's something we get back to over Christmas and finish out. Their methodology is really good for visualization.

 

We used BJU pre-algebra last year and I feel it was good prep for Lial's. I'm not ready to jump ship yet, but I've got to get dd beyond this current section and feeling more confident about her skills. DH meant well in his comments. I think more than anything, he was trying to echo my sentiments about all the meltdowns over the past 2 weeks. Jann in TX gave me some great advice in my xpost, stating that ch 1 & 2 were really more for teacher assessment and that ch 3 is really where the algebra text begins. So, thank you for your words of wisdom. We'll keep plugging along and I'll continue to assess just what is at the root of our issue.

 

Thanks,

Jennifer

[Jen the RD]

A few thoughts. You said you didn't do alot of Earth Science topics, check this out. Its from Elemental. I didn't think it was out yet but apparently it is. I would recommend getting her math skills solid before attempting any math based science.

 

Now, on the math issue- check out this website. It breaks down algebraic word problems and teaches students how to solve them.

 

Again, I would wait on the science until next year. Get done with Algebra 1 and solid in it, then go on to the physical science you have. Get those math skills solid.

 

wykidwrangler, thanks for the links. The algebra helper for word problems looks very good. I looked at the Elemental science, but the earth science (logic stage) won't be ready until spring 2012. A little late for us I think.

 

Thanks,

Jennifer

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

wykidwrangler, thanks for the links. The algebra helper for word problems looks very good. I looked at the Elemental science, but the earth science (logic stage) won't be ready until spring 2012. A little late for us I think.

 

Thanks,

Jennifer

 

 

 

Oh I am sorry I didn't see that it was not out until this coming spring.