lamolina Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 Hi- We will be taking our 3 children out of public school half way through this school year. This means our oldest will have finished half of 5th grade. He scores at around the 90th percentile for math on his standardized testing (or at least that was what he did last year). I know standardized testing is not the way to determine placement, but for now that is the only marker I have as to his math abilities. I think you could call him a strong math student, but maybe not an amazingly advanced math student. I had planned to put them all in Singapore math. However, now I am wondering, with all the options for pre-algebra out there, is putting him in what might be just 1 year of SM even worth it? Will that just be too confusing for him to learn a new way of doing math and then switch in a year? So, just looking for any suggestions!! thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momling Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 Sure it's worth it. Not knowing your son exactly.... most high-average kids can handle pre-algebra in 7th grade. That gives you 3 semesters. plus two summers to get him ready. Depending on his placement, you could theoretically do 5b, 6a, 6b and the corresponding CWP and IP. You may want to start the CWP at 3rd or 4th grade level to get into it. He'd be well-prepared and well-challenged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ummto4 Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 The first thing you need to look is gaps. Does he really have a solid understanding of arithmetic ? Can he do mental math easily ? Fill in the gaps if you found one. Math Mammoth blue books (topical books) are good for filling out the gaps. If you would like to use S-pore for 5th-6th grade, realize that it's pretty different from US math from the way it approaches thing. You may even have to backtrack a bit. It's worth it though. Just in case you need to backtrak, Math mammoth blue books (topical books) are excellent (but cheap enough) to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbridgeacademy Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 The first thing you need to look is gaps. Does he really have a solid understanding of arithmetic ? Can he do mental math easily ? Fill in the gaps if you found one. Math Mammoth blue books (topical books) are good for filling out the gaps. If you would like to use S-pore for 5th-6th grade, realize that it's pretty different from US math from the way it approaches thing. You may even have to backtrack a bit. It's worth it though. Just in case you need to backtrak, Math mammoth blue books (topical books) are excellent (but cheap enough) to do it. :iagree: This is how we are doing it. Using the Blue Series to make sure all gaps are filled for DS 5th grade before Pre-Algebra, which we hope to start next year. He's very "mathy". I would go ahead and spend the $57 and get all of the upper level books (4-6 grades) from MM. It will cover multiplication. division, fractions, decimals, percents, ratios, geometry, and a lot more. You can move through the sections as quick or slow as you need. She give a download with a bunch of free samples, don't let it put you off. I thought when looking at the samples that the program was too "hodge podge" I'm so glad I decided to get it anyway. Very well laid out and since it's download you get it NOW. Got to love that. I really like that next year (maybe this year?) I can start using MM with my 3rd grader as well. The only draw back is that you have to print it yourself, but I actually prefer this. I can print only what I need for the week. Not a lot of bulky books/workbooks taking up valuable bookshelf space! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acurtis75 Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 This answer applies to all your kids and not so much just the one good in math. My s-in-law pulled her then 3rd & 4th graders out of ps last year and found that she had to basically go back to the beginning. I'm not as familiar with MM as I am with MUS because that's what both of us use but I think they are similar in approach. Basically, she discovered that despite getting good grades in math (the older daughter did very well on placement tests) they didn't really know their math facts (they were still "counting" in their head when adding & subtracting) and they really struggled with word problems and knowing when to use what type of operations. She actually started with MUS alpha which covers single digit addition and they just raced through it. They completed alpha & beta the first year and will do at least gamma & delta this year and then work on epsilon in the summer and by the end of next year will be back on "grade level" so to speak. There are sample lesson videos on the mus website to review if you want to see if you think the teaching style would work for you and placement tests to see what level to start with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamolina Posted September 28, 2011 Author Share Posted September 28, 2011 I hope this doesn't sound too clueless, but how do I actually go about finding out what the gaps are!? Our youngest won't have any because he just started K, the middle is in 2nd and I do see her counting on her fingers a lot. But I feel like I have more time with them to figure things out and catch up if needed, but the oldest is heading into middle school age soon and I don't want to find out later that he missed a bunch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat in MI Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 One way to find gaps may be to take some placement tests, but if you had your student go through the MM books you would take care of any gaps. I strongly suggest taking placement tests before going into Singapore. You will probably find your students need to go back a level or more in Singapore. So your 5th grader will probably start at 4a or so depending on how well he does on the placement test. It is not unheard of for students to go back to 3a when first entering Singapore. Blessings, Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamolina Posted September 28, 2011 Author Share Posted September 28, 2011 And if he did need to go back to SM 3 or 4, would that be preferable to starting something else at more grade level?? I do have MM, but not the topical one, the grade level one. Would that work to find the gaps, and then we could skip what he does know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 If you do need to backtrack to a lower level of Singapore, I wouldn't do every chapter but rather only the most important topics. For the middle levels of Primary Math, those would be the chapters on multiplication, division, fractions, and decimals. Those are the key areas where your student needs to be rock-solid prior to moving on to higher math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acurtis75 Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 Placement tests can tell you some things but not everything. For example, when we switched to mus my daugher passed the alpha placement test. It wasn't until after I was a few lessons in to Beta that I realized she was "counting" in her head and didn't really know her math facts. It's a blessing to have a younger child in K. For my s-in-law she started with alpha because she knew she would use it with her younger kids so she didn't mind spending money on a curriculum she would finish in a few months. Her kids used the manipulatives and raced through the alpha material and then she moved on. You could use a similar approach to MM or whatever curriculum you choose. I prefer MUS but you should just pick whatever you think works best for your family and don't be afraid to start spend some time reviewing. For all subjects it's good to give yourself some grace and see the first year as a transition/discovery year. My friend's first grader goes to private school and they spend the first 6 weeks of a new year just reviewing stuff they learned last year. You will see/find gaps as you start working in all areas because it's just you and your children and you're paying attention to them and discussing what they are learning as they are learning it. This was not happening in ps. Also, if you haven't purchased it, OPGTR has a great section about remediation and the problems children who didn't have good phonics instruction start to experience in 3rd or 4th grade. This may or may not be a problem for your children but it will at least give you some things to look out for as you're reading together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamolina Posted September 29, 2011 Author Share Posted September 29, 2011 Thank you all for this advice. I understand that he (they) might have gaps in certain areas. So, say we go with SM. If I find he has a gap with decimals, how do I know where to go back to, to remediate that?:confused: Would I need to have all levels of SM? I suppose eventually I might get to them anyway. (although I am eyeing Beast Academy for my youngest!) I just ordered OPGTR as well, so hopefully we will also be able to cover any phonics gaps! The oldest is an amazing reader, but the middle could probably use the last part of this book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acurtis75 Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 It's probably easier to answer the question of where to "go back" with a mastery type curriculum than spiral. I only use sm as a supplement and don't teach from it so I'm not sure exactly how they work but you can probably look at online samples of the table of contents. For MUS each book has a primary focus and then reviews the previous topics. There is a level specifically for fractions and decimals. My dd is a fast learner so we have been completing 2 levels per year. I think MM is similar but I'm not sure. Another idea for filling in specific gaps for your older son as you find them would be to use khan academy videos online. They are great, it's easy to find a specific topic and it's free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamolina Posted October 8, 2011 Author Share Posted October 8, 2011 So, they just did placement tests at my son's school and they put him in 6th grade math, and he is a young 5th grader. So now I am even more confused as to what to get for him for when we start to HS in March. I have considered Lial's BCM, Singapore, MM, AoPS pre-algebra, Life of Fred, and a few other pre-algebra's. With this many options floating around in my head I just don't know where to go as far as figuring out which he is ready for, and wanting to keep him challenged but without leaving gaps! Thoughts? Help!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 I would give all of them the placement test for Christian Light Education Math and place where they score. Seriously. CLE is advanced. My 2nd son is using the 500/5th grade but places 2 grade levels higher in any other program. He is covering square roots and other topics I have not seen at that age. If you think your oldest is advanced, then this is the math for him. As an upside, it totally self-teaching at the 300/3rd grade level and above and has daily fact drills (we do not time.) This program finally got my boys to mastery of those facts. Should you go this route, get the student reference cards. They are worth more than the ~$4 they cost. http://clp.org/store/by_subject/4 This is the placement test: http://clp.org/store/by_grade/21 Another totally different option is Teaching Textbooks. This is a computer based, slower moving program. Once again, it is imperative to have all your children take the placement test. The page can be slow to load. Usually hitting stop and refresh speeds it up. http://www.teachingtextbooks.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In2why Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 So, they just did placement tests at my son's school and they put him in 6th grade math, and he is a young 5th grader. So now I am even more confused as to what to get for him for when we start to HS in March.I have considered Lial's BCM, Singapore, MM, AoPS pre-algebra, Life of Fred, and a few other pre-algebra's. With this many options floating around in my head I just don't know where to go as far as figuring out which he is ready for, and wanting to keep him challenged but without leaving gaps! Thoughts? Help!? The math he got in public school probably wouldn't prepare him for any of the programs you listed above at grade level. When posters talk about gaps it isn't just basic skills but it is thinking about math in an entire different way. It is learning to do mental math, and using critical thinking skills to know which operations are needed to solve which problems. They are great skills to have and worth back tracking a bit to acquire if you have a mathy kid. Out of everything you listed I would suggest Mammoth Math. The price is right, and it is more independent so you don't need to learn an entire different way of teaching math to your child for it to work. It also is enough of a mixture of problems that he will recognize the format and enough to stretch him to be a good place to start while you get your bearings. One caveat is that just because there might be 50 problems on a page doesn't mean that they all need to be done. If it is material that he grasps easily have him do every other one, or just the sections where he needs more practice. Sometimes the sheer number of problems can seem intimidating, but only if you or your child feel the need to do everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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