What math program would you recommend for this kid?

[Greta]

My daughter (soon to be 12, 6th grade) takes to math very naturally and easily. However, we hit a wall with the program we were using (CLE) because she became driven to distraction with the spiral approach -- too many topics covered in one lesson. I liked it, but she didn't, and it's not something I want to fight about.

 

She wants a program that teaches directly to her and makes me unnecessary, or at least rarely necessary. ;)

 

She wants a mastery rather than a spiral approach.

 

I want something very solid academically, that will challenge her to think deeply.

 

I want something affordable. :D

 

She's at the level just before pre-Algebra, or put another way, the last year of an elementary math curriculum (6th or 7th, depending on the publisher), and could handle some pre-Algebra thrown in. Am I going to have a hard time fitting her into the LAST year of a program, and making sure we've covered all the bases?

 

I picked up a copy of Saxon 8/7 because I had a credit at a used book store and got it for free. Is this a good choice?

 

Thanks in advance for any ideas! :001_smile:

[GingerPoppy]

Sounds like job for Math Mammoth! :)

[Deniseibase]

CLE and Saxon use the same sort of spiral approach, so if she doesn't like it with CLE, she probably won't be too found of Saxon either.

 

It sounds like she might enjoy AoPS, but it starts at pre-algebra. A lot of people do Singapore before AoPS, but that might be hard to come in on the last year, and it's not really self-teaching. Maybe Math Mammoth?

[Greta]

CLE and Saxon use the same sort of spiral approach, so if she doesn't like it with CLE, she probably won't be too found of Saxon either.

 

Do we have a forehead-slapping smilie? The only reason I picked up Saxon was because I thought it was mastery. Uggh. I just love it when I do brilliant things like that.

 

It sounds like she might enjoy AoPS, but it starts at pre-algebra.

 

I've heard good things about this and will keep it in mind for next year. She probably *could* do pre-Alg this year, but I think that *I* would feel better spending another year really cementing and refining basic math first.

 

Maybe Math Mammoth?

 

Sounds like job for Math Mammoth! :)

 

I had wondered about Math Mammoth, so I'm glad to hear two votes for it. Thanks, ladies! :001_smile:

[wapiti]

:iagree: with the PPs. MM is relatively independent, since all the teaching is in the text, and mastery. Same goes for AoPS Prealgebra - I learned just the other day that it was written to be done independently (there are also free on-line videos corresponding to the text and more practice problems on Alcumus, their free on-line program). So, my recommendation would depend on what level of math your student is currently ready for. You might be surprised - see the pre-test for AoPS Prealgebra, which was apparently designed to follow 5th grade math. It is a challenging program, and certainly would involve thinking deeply :D. If she's not ready for that yet, my vote would be for MM (there are placement tests on the MM website).

[Spy Car]

I'm not a Math Mammoth user (so take it with a grain of salt) but given your requirements for a mastery based program written to the student, this is what leaped to my mind.

 

One other suggestion would be to add Primary Grade Challenge Math by Ed Zaccaro to the mix. This book would add many pre-Algebra (and some basic Algebra) in a well-explained gentle way that (for her) age could be entirely independent work. And it is fun.

 

If there is specific holes the Key to....books have topical books on fractions, percentages, etc.

 

Bill

[regentrude]

Art of Problem Solving, if she is ready for their pre-algebra text (check out the diagnostic test on the website.) Just because schools take 6-7 years for arithmetic prior to pre-algebra does not mean you have to.

If she is not ready yet, revisit when she is; if you look for something that makes her think deeply, this would fit your bill.

 

I used Saxon 8/7 with my kids to cover pre-algebra and get them ready for AoPS Intro to algebra. Very spiral, hated it, went as fast as we could, but it did the job. We relentlessly cut out the geometry and excessive arithmetic reviews to make it a bare bones prealgebra text and DS did it in five months. So, you can make it work, but for a kid who does not like spiral it requires some major tweaking.

I wish the AoPS pre-algebra book would have been out then.

[MyLittleBears]

A program that is directly addressed to the student but has an excellent teacher's manual, is mastery based and has a lot of review is Rod and Staff. The only problem with it, which may or may not be a problem for others is that it only goes up to the 8th grade and also has no workbook. It is very afforable and nonconsumable. I personally would combine it a more conceptual program, but I know others who use it alone and their children test exceptionally well on standardized tests.

 

hth

Edited September 26, 2011 by MyLittleBears

[Greta]

Thanks for the suggestions so far! The Art of Problem Solving pre-test actually does look like something she could pass. I will give it to her tonight or tomorrow to be sure, but that might be a possibility after all (which I would not have thought).

 

Challenge Math also looks like something she would really love, a great addition to whatever program we decide on. Thanks, Bill!

 

I had not even considered Rod & Staff, so I will take a look at that as well.

 

Math Mammoth is still a big contender, though. It's going to be tough to decide!

 

Thanks for the further feedback regarding Saxon, regentrude. I don't think I have the mental energy for that much tweaking, so we'll look for something else.

[wapiti]

Thanks for the suggestions so far! The Art of Problem Solving pre-test actually does look like something she could pass. I will give it to her tonight or tomorrow to be sure, but that might be a possibility after all (which I would not have thought).

 

Challenge Math also looks like something she would really love, a great addition to whatever program we decide on. Thanks, Bill!

 

I had not even considered Rod & Staff, so I will take a look at that as well.

 

Math Mammoth is still a big contender, though. It's going to be tough to decide!

 

You could call us surprise AoPS users also :D (see the logic board for posts on it) but I am very happy with it so far. It was a very tough decision to leave MM behind, and I have peace of mind that I could always fall back on MM6 if it turns out that our switch to AoPS was premature.

[Lori D.]

While I have no personal experience with it, a program that IS directed to the student and is mastery-based is Teaching Textbooks. The program starts at about 5th grade and goes up through Pre-Calculus. However, it does not have the rigor that you are also looking for. BUT... I was also going to suggest supplementing with AoPS, which would be very do-able (assign as much or as little of AoPS as fits in the schedule), would add "math-thinking" and rigor. Another very helpful supplement that DD would most likely be able to handle solo might be some of the "Keys to Algebra" series.

 

Similarly, we used Math-U-See (with our math struggler), which could also be done pretty independently by a student (watch the video lesson for the week; do the workpages). Again, you could easily supplement with something else for added rigor.

 

 

One idea for a supplement NOW is one of the best programs I've run across for encouraging math-thinking: Singapore Primary. It is mastery-based. The concepts in the Primary series only take you up through Pre-Algebra, however. But because of the heavy focus on problem-solving and math-thinking, you could easily use parts of the Singapore 4A/B, 5A/B and 6A/B over the next 2 years as supplement and prep for Algebra -- or, use all three levels as your solo/spine math program next year to cement 6th/7th grade math concepts AND get that rigor of math-thinking and problem solving.

 

Just more options to consider! ;) BEST of luck, whatever you decide to go with! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited September 26, 2011 by Lori D.

[Farrar]

I really like MM, but with a 6th grader, it's not going to take you very far. Just sayin.

[Greta]

I really like MM, but with a 6th grader, it's not going to take you very far. Just sayin.

 

You've hit on my concern with starting *any* program which is designed for elementary math, at the 6th/7th grade level. We would be starting at the end, essentially. It doesn't sound very productive. I guess, for that reason, I'm growing more and more intrigued with the AoPS idea. But I was curious if you had another suggestion?

 

ETA: That first sentence was probably a shining example of why I should not be responsible for teaching anyone grammar and writing. I hope you caught my meaning despite my tired brain. I had a rough night last night and it seems to be catching up with me.

[Greta]

Lori, thank you for this thoughtful post. I intend to RE-read it in the morning when I can focus better. :001_smile:

[Greta]

You could call us surprise AoPS users also :D (see the logic board for posts on it) but I am very happy with it so far. It was a very tough decision to leave MM behind, and I have peace of mind that I could always fall back on MM6 if it turns out that our switch to AoPS was premature.

 

Thank you, I look forward to reading your other posts on this topic! :001_smile:

[Spy Car]

You've hit on my concern with starting *any* program which is designed for elementary math, at the 6th/7th grade level. We would be starting at the end, essentially. It doesn't sound very productive. I guess, for that reason, I'm growing more and more intrigued with the AoPS idea. But I was curious if you had another suggestion?

 

I'll throw out one more possibility. Again, it is a program I have not used personally (I know Moira has, and speaks glowingly of it, as have others) and that is (Russian) Mathematics 6 from Perpendicular Press.

 

It is a Level 6 program I have been looking at a possible one-year bridge program before starting AoPS.

 

Bill

[wapiti]

You've hit on my concern with starting *any* program which is designed for elementary math, at the 6th/7th grade level. We would be starting at the end, essentially. It doesn't sound very productive. I guess, for that reason, I'm growing more and more intrigued with the AoPS idea. But I was curious if you had another suggestion?

 

I would agree that if your dd has already mastered the material that would be in MM 5, she could be well on her way to starting AoPS rather than doing MM 6. That was our calculation, anyway (dd started AoPS Prealgebra after finishing MM 5B; the only little topic I had to teach her first was multip/div of negative numbers). Our experiment is going well so far.

 

ETA: I doubt it would be possible to use AoPS as a supplement to another program. The teaching is too different and the depth is probably hard to match.

 

I'll throw out one more possibility. Again, it is a program I have not used personally (I know Moira has, and speaks glowingly of it, as have others) and that is (Russian) Mathematics 6 from Perpendicular Press.

 

It is a Level 6 program I have been looking at a possible one-year bridge program before starting AoPS.

 

Bill

 

This is a good idea. I have to say, I love Russian Math 6 as well, and it's another possibility for my dd if AoPS Prealgebra doesn't work out. However.... I love AoPS :D. Way too much.

 

FWIW, I ordered the AoPS algebra I book for the school (long story) and it arrived tonight. While its tone is generally conversational and I don't think of it as especially humorous, some of you may appreciate one problem we saw when we opened it up, involving how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood. The kids (10, 8, 8) and I were laughing so hard we had tears (and then, of course, dd made dh teach her how to figure it out).

Edited September 27, 2011 by wapiti

[Spy Car]

This is a good idea. I have to say, I love Russian Math 6 as well, and it's another possibility for my dd if AoPS Prealgebra doesn't work out. However.... I love AoPS :D. Way too much.

 

FWIW, I ordered the AoPS algebra I book for the school (long story) and it arrived tonight. While its tone is generally conversational and I don't think of it as especially humorous, some of you may appreciate one problem we saw when we opened it up, involving how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood. The kids (10, 8, 8) and I were laughing so hard we had tears (and then, of course, dd made dh teach her how to figure it out).

 

Trust me, I can't wait to start AoPS. I have just had Mathematics 6 as a potential bridge to AoPS.

 

The whole Beast Academy thing may mess with my long-range plans (which included finishing Singapore early and having time/need for a bridge). Now, who knows?

 

Bill

[wapiti]

Trust me, I can't wait to start AoPS. I have just had Mathematics 6 as a potential bridge to AoPS.

 

The whole Beast Academy thing may mess with my long-range plans (which included finishing Singapore early and having time/need for a bridge). Now, who knows?

 

Bill

 

I understand completely. Keep that Mathematics 6 tucked in the back of your mind just in case, but you will never use it. Once you get that Prealgebra book in your hand, there's no turning back, LOL. You'll be sticking your neck out like the rest of us, hoping you didn't start too soon :D. If you want to get a good feel for the type of math teaching, take a look at the videos, if you haven't already. (FWIW, I figure it's ok if we start the Prealgebra book early, because the Algebra book might take more than a year if we do the whole thing. And then there are the other books...)

[mystika1]

never mind:001_smile:

Edited September 27, 2011 by mystika1

[FairyMom]

What is AoPS?

[Spy Car]

What is AoPS?

 

Art of Problem Solving.

 

This series is arguably the most challenging middle school and high school aged math series available. It includes whatmight be called a "discovery" method where children are given just (barely) enough information to be able to solve a difficult problem (with the application of brain power). And then, after they have solved the problem they are taken through the solution. Then a little more information is added, and a more challenge problem follows.

 

Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

 

AoPS recently released a long-awaited pre-Algebra book, and they rocked many of our worlds with the announcement of a 2nd-5th grade math series for kids called Beast Academy. I was one of the fortunate ones to get a sample chapter and it was awesome. Beast Academy isn't scheduled to begin rolling out until next summer.

 

Bill

[FairyMom]

Thank you very much. I love learning about new math resources.

[Lori D.]

Forgot to add, Greta -- Singapore would probably NOT be a self-sufficient one for DD to use mostly independently. BUT, it's relatively inexpensive, the pages are simple and clean in layout, it is mastery-based, and it most definitely encourages math thinking. It is (obviously!) one of the Asian math programs -- which really throws some moms for teaching it; but if you feel fairly confident in teaching math, it would not be a problem. However, the biggest hurdle might be the need to work with mom with this one.

 

 

Wish I knew anything about Math Mammoth, Russian Math or some of the other interesting suggestions you've received to help with a review! But, from your list of criteria, it sounds to me like you could either go with:

 

a.) Something new that will neatly tie up the final year of elementary math, but it would be okay if it did not have more advanced levels, as the following year you would then start with a curriculum that would then take you all the way through your secondary math levels.

 

OR

 

b.) Start now with whatever curriculum that would prep DD for higher levels of math, and has all the levels of high school math you'll need so you can just make one switch, one time.

 

 

I hope you will find what works well for both you and DD! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Spy Car]

I understand completely. Keep that Mathematics 6 tucked in the back of your mind just in case, but you will never use it. Once you get that Prealgebra book in your hand, there's no turning back, LOL. You'll be sticking your neck out like the rest of us, hoping you didn't start too soon :D. If you want to get a good feel for the type of math teaching, take a look at the videos, if you haven't already. (FWIW, I figure it's ok if we start the Prealgebra book early, because the Algebra book might take more than a year if we do the whole thing. And then there are the other books...)

 

Funny you mentioned the videos. I watched a bunch of them last night with him. This morning he woke up really early and I could hear him sitting at the computer and calling out to his mother who was in the kitchen preparing his breakfast: Mom, how do you spell "problem solving?"

 

I kid you not, he Googled the site, and spent the wee morning hours watching AoPS videos on his own :lol:

 

There is a chance we will be starting it early :D

 

Bill

[Greta]

I want to thank everyone again for all this help. I read the whole thread again first thing this morning, then talked it over with my husband at breakfast. We decided to spend the next few weeks brushing up on those concepts where I feel she needs a bit of extra review, and then dive into AoPS Pre-Algebra. Keeping future plans and goals in mind, this just seems to make a lot more sense than doing the last year/level of an elementary math program that we've never used before. Rather than starting at the end of an elementary program, we feel she's ready to start at the beginning of a middle and high school program. And we're both pretty impressed and intrigued with the philosophy and style of AoPS.

 

So, thanks again! I feel good about this decision, and I'm excited to see where it takes us.