Rigorous Parents: What makes a curriculum rigorous?

[Kfamily]

This is sort of a spin-off from the thread on the K-8 board about rigorous curricula. It led me to considering what is it that makes a curriculum like TOG rigorous (or at least the ability to be rigorous if used this way). I was thinking that it might come down to a few main elements. Please help me add to this list as well as any suggestions for the questions to come.

 

Book choice (I think I'm very confident that I know which books to choose.)

 

Written aspect

 

Discussion aspect

 

Depth aspect

 

What else would I add here?

 

Here is my related question:

 

What books or resources do you use to help you, the teacher, to be better prepared for the work needed to make the curriculum rigorous?

 

I do have and know about the WTM and the WEM. What else will help me make our high school curriculum better? I'm looking for ways to make the discussion, depth and written aspects more rigorous. And anything else that I haven't considered yet?

Edited September 20, 2011 by Kfamily

[Tullia]

For me, it's important to make connections; these were helpful to me:

 

The Structure of Scientific Revolutions Thomas S. Kuhn

Studies in Words C. S. Lewis

The Discarded Image C. S. Lewis

An Experiment in Criticism C. S. Lewis

Poetics Aristotle

 

Rigorous curricula are useless unless they can be successfully used. Charlotte Mason and John Milton Gregory (The Seven Laws of Teaching) are good sources for practical ideas if you don't mind the 19th Century tone.

[Candid]

The recorded presentation from Tapestry on holding Socratic discussions is good. (Although since I use Tapestry it may have been better because I used it in conjunction with their plans.) You really need to hear something like it over and over to remind you of what you want to do. It is so easy to slip into filling buckets instead of lighting fires (or at least making them fill buckets).

[Kfamily]

Thanks ladies, I will look into all of these suggestions.

Martha, I found The Seven Laws of Teaching on Google books and downloaded it.

 

Thank you!

[TerriMI]

A very classical way of looking at books or other pieces of writing is using analysis and imitation on them. There are various ways to analyze a book or piece of wriiting.

 

• WTM and WEM uses a question approach using questions appropriate to the genre. They also urge background analysis. THis is research to the historical occasion or cultural time period and author information.
  
• Classical Writing uses this background analysis and then focuses on the many aspects of analysis with language topics including Rhetorical occasion, Topics of Invention, Patterns of Arrangement, grammar and style analysis, and some other wonderful topics from classical teachers.
  
• Another good way to analyze a book is to look for the Literary structures. These are the typical topics that you would find in a modern literature class, like plot structure, themes, character development.
  
• You can use the knowlege that you have learned in your logic classes to do analysis of the arguments.
  
• You could use anything you have learned of philosopy or worldview.
  
• The Omnibus series inludes questions to analyze what our present culture says about the ideas in the books read. They also have good questions to compare what the Bible says about those ideas.
  

Imitation ideas include outlining, precising, making summaries and writing your own piece of work using various criteria for imitating. You might, say, notice the logical or structural flow of the piece and write your own work with a different topic using that flow....etc.

 

You use all this analysis and imitation to "come to terms" with the author.

 

 

• "Coming to terms" is how Adler puts it in his "How to Read a Book." This book is also a treasure house for analysis ideas. And he also gives some helpful thoughts for making judgements on books.
  
• Adler also has written books and arranged the whole Great Books of the Western World around the Great Ideas. You could have a list of these to see what a book or piece of work says about them.
  

You can also use analysis and imitation to "beef up" writing style ala Benjamen Franklin.

 

These are ways of adding to a student's cursory reading that will help deepen and broaden their thinking and learning. I think that might be what you mean by adding rigor. What I haven't found is everything in one particular packaged curriculum. So if you are asking about that, I don't know of any. But I think my suggestions help guide or enhance any study you are doing to make it more of your own curriculum.

Edited September 20, 2011 by TerriKY

[angela in ohio]

I largely credit The Seven Laws of Teaching and The Trivium with preparing me to homeschool rigorously. Learning (and teaching dc) the tools of logic and rhetoric allow the connections and discussion that make learning rigorous, imho.

 

I have found that homeschool books and boards don't teach me much about rigorous homeschooling. I have relied upon classical school resources: Circe Institute talks and blogs, VP conference talks and books, etc. To me, it is easier to adapt for homeschooling than to adapt for rigor.

[Nan in Mass]

When I want rigorous (and I don't always), first I ask if it is going to make my children think, and then I tend to look at the structure of the curriculum.

 

Does it ask questions that don't have a right answer, or at least don't have an immediately obvious right answer? Those sorts of questions lead to discussions. Discussions lead to having to defend one's answer. That is good.

 

Does the curriculum teach skills or does it assume that the student will somehow just know how to do things? Teaching is good. Assuming is not (for my children).

 

Does it ask the student to do something difficult and then assume that the student will get better at whatever it is with practice? Or does it only ask students to do things that it knows they can do well, for fear of discouraging them?

 

Does it use primary sources or experiments and ask the student to draw conclusions?

 

Is the language level high? Does it gloss over the difficult bits of concepts (making them impossible to really understand) or does it explain things fully in proper technical language rather than "easy" English? Is it necessary to learn some vocabulary in order to understand this?

 

Is the student expected to use what he has learned for the rest of the course? Is he going to get to use his knowledge from other subjects? Is it going to reward him for his general knowledge by giving him questions that can't be answered unless he knows lots of things? (This is tricky because it can be endlessly frustrating if not done well.)

 

What does the curriculum look like? Does it ask the student to do assignments that begin with a blank piece of paper, or does it include lots of fill in the blanks and multiple choice questions? Is the student asked to form a conclusion and defend it? Are there problems that are going to have to be thought about for a few days? Is the student expected to produce what he has learned out of thin air and rearrange it in a useful form? Or is he just expected to recognize it when he sees it?

 

I found Teach Like a Champion (I think that was the title?) useful as far as helping me, as a teacher, do a good job. It is full of tips that other people probably already know but which I found helpful to have pointed out to me. Some I already did sort of automatically, but I can do it more consistently if I know what it is that I am doing.

 

We by no means do everything in a rigorous way. Mine are learning tons in non-academic ways, so I tend to go as lightly as possible with the academics. One "thinking" curriculum a year seems to be about all we can handle. The rest we do in a more informal way.

 

Nan

[Kfamily]

Ladies, you are wonderful! You've all given me so much to read, absorb and read again.

 

TerriKY, I do have How to Read a Book and had started it. I got distracted with moving and then started How to Read Literature Like a Professor (which I'm enjoying a lot). As soon as I finish the latter I will go back and read How to Read a Book again. I also had planned on getting my dd back into CW again and I've been putting it off (for several reasons...none of which are good enough:001_smile:). In the end, I think this continues to point back to me. I do work on my own education, but it is difficult to manage the time of all that is needed to be done. Your post and the others will be added to my notes, so that I can refer to them daily as I create our lesson plans. It is exactly what I needed to read.

 

Angela, I will look for The Trivium. I have been to the Circe Institute, but I need to get back there and listen to more lectures. I need to work on my own logic and rhetoric. I picking up a theme here...:lol: I need to work on me too.

 

Nan, your questions are exactly the ones I should be asking myself on a regular basis. I will keep this close to me as I prepare our work. I agree, I know exactly where I can stretch my dd the most right now, and as she continues to build her base, I'll know when I can stretch in those areas too. I'm feeling the typical frustration of a homeschooling parent whose trying to teach above her own education and yet manage our crazy schedule too. I'm also feeling the pressure of running out of time with my elder dd. High is now!

 

Thank you all so much!:grouphug:

[justamouse]

 

Rigorous curricula are useless unless they can be successfully used. Charlotte Mason and John Milton Gregory (The Seven Laws of Teaching) are good sources for practical ideas if you don't mind the 19th Century tone.

 

 

:iagree:

[justamouse]

 

 

 

I found Teach Like a Champion (I think that was the title?) useful as far as helping me, as a teacher, do a good job. It is full of tips that other people probably already know but which I found helpful to have pointed out to me. Some I already did sort of automatically, but I can do it more consistently if I know what it is that I am doing.

 

 

Nan

 

The Teach Like a Champion book and CD are *great* resources.

[Nan in Mass]

I think I learned the most from TWTM GRIN.

[momma2three]

I think that, for me, the definition of "rigorous" is one where the expectations are always kept one step ahead of ability. With patience and understanding if the student doesn't meet expectations, and a huge sense of pride on the student's part if he or she does.

 

I think that best sums up the high school education that I received, and it was just so different from my k-8 experience where really just busywork once you met the baseline standard.

 

I want to provide my kids an education that is similar to my high school experience

Edited September 22, 2011 by momma2three
clarity3

[Janice in NJ]

I think the teacher makes the curriculum rigorous.

 

Sometimes that thought terrifies me; periodically it encourages.

Often it comforts me. But then we have a bad day; now it enrages. Which leads to terror.

If you give a mom a cookie......

 

I suspect that the parent is the biggest influence in the homeschooling equation: an emotionally challenging hurdle at best.

 

Thank goodness for these boards!

Janice

[Nan in Mass]

Janice - I like lune's quote at the bottom of this post: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3163347#poststop

Nan

[angela in ohio]

I think the teacher makes the curriculum rigorous.

 

Sometimes that thought terrifies me; periodically it encourages.

Often it comforts me. But then we have a bad day; now it enrages. Which leads to terror.

If you give a mom a cookie......

 

I suspect that the parent is the biggest influence in the homeschooling equation: an emotionally challenging hurdle at best.

 

Thank goodness for these boards!

Janice

 

I love being on a board where people are willing to say this. :001_smile: Too often it is a no-no subject, because it might make someone feel pressure or stress.

[Joan in GE]

Agreeing with all the above comments and will just make a connection here..

 

 

I think the teacher makes the curriculum rigorous.

 

snip

 

Thank goodness for these boards!

 

that we as parents are affected by our "peers" and the WTM and many threads on the HS boards have been the peers that helped us turn towards more rigorous/challenging materials and experiences...Before I was exposed to more challenging experiences verbalized on the boards, my standard was that of the books/magazines I'd read and any personal exposure...

 

One thing I just noticed was that when ds was in 7th, we used a science curriculum that said "5-8th". In retrospect, we should have done it in 5th, or even 4th...and done something more challenging in 7th, like WTM suggestions...I think I'd wanted something I didn't have to prepare for...though rigor doesn't always involve parental preparation - it frequently seems to, unless the student is soooo personally motivated.

 

Still thinking about this question,

Joan

[Kfamily]

I agree with your last paragraph. It seems it is a fine line between a curriculum in which your student excels, and one that is too easy for them (and therefore easy for the teacher too). I think this line will be different for every family.

[Guest Barb B]

Agree with all the responses and want to add one more addition to them: accountability. Our students need to be held accountable to do what is assigned. I know it seems obvious - but we need to make assignments and have them do it by the date we assign. As moms we have to fight the urge to back down.

Barb

[Tullia]

Agree with all the responses and want to add one more addition to them: accountability. Our students need to be held accountable to do what is assigned. I know it seems obvious - but we need to make assignments and have them do it by the date we assign. As moms we have to fight the urge to back down.

Barb

 

Yes. This. During the high school years it's natural for young people to work on forging their own identity apart from mom and dad. It's a necessary and good but exhausting process--and one that can spill over into academics.

[coffeegal]

Agree with all the responses and want to add one more addition to them: accountability. Our students need to be held accountable to do what is assigned. I know it seems obvious - but we need to make assignments and have them do it by the date we assign. As moms we have to fight the urge to back down.

Barb

 

And to do it well. :001_smile: I've found running quality control is just as important as ensuring it gets done. They don't learn if they don't do the assignment, and they don't learn if they just make a quick pass at it without understanding.