So, I've been asked to speak on a panel

[Debbie in OR]

representing hs-ers. We live in a small town and there has been some tension with the ps/private/hs worlds so this panel is going to be comprised of representatives from each sector. I know the issue of "socialization" will come up and I have read through all the threads I could find on here about it. But I wonder, if it were you up there, what would you want others to know about this issue in particular? I could really use your thoughts on this...

[angela in ohio]

My biggest thought is... don't be hostile. :001_smile: I am always impressed by speakers on a panel or in a debate who rise above the fray. I think the educated in the audience would respect that. I would make that my focus for the event.

 

I would focus on why homeschooling is effective and works for many families, as opposed to why the schools are bad.

 

Anyway, about socialization, I would just make the point that learning to get along "in the real world" happens best in the real world, and not in a classroom of kids the same age from the same area.

[K&Rs Mom]

One of the best things I've heard is the difference between *socializing* and *socialization* - the first is chatting with friends, but it's what most people mean when they use the second word wrt homeschoolers. Actual socialization is just learning to get along in society, which most people eventually manage regardless of their educational background.

 

And all of the homeschoolers I know are doing fine in both areas...

 

You might just point out that most homeschool parents realize this is a concern and take some action to make sure their kids get peer interaction. That should satisfy the people who are actually concerned, and the people who are just anti-homeschool aren't going to be satisfied no matter what you say.

[LizzyBee]

I don't know if this is true in your area, but around here, there are sooo many activities for homeschoolers that socialization is just a huge non-issue. If there are activities available in your area, I'd share what some of those are (re: outside classes, sports, park days, co-ops, etc.). I'd also mention that most homeschooled kids are also involved in activities that are not related to homeschooling, such as church, 4-H, Boy/Girl Scouts, etc.

 

When my kids were in public school, there were very few opportunities for "socialization." The kids were busy doing their schoolwork and they weren't allowed to talk. They weren't even allowed to talk at lunch, because they only got a 20 minute lunch break. Some days, they didn't have recess because they had too much work to do (and they were only in school for K-2!), so they didn't even have a chance to talk to their friends at recess on those days.

 

Then there's the negative socialization that goes on in school, but if the goal is to build bridges, I wouldn't even bring that up.

[Debbie in OR]

I would focus on why homeschooling is effective and works for many families, as opposed to why the schools are bad. Anyway, about socialization, I would just make the point that learning to get along "in the real world" happens best in the real world, and not in a classroom of kids the same age from the same area.

 

That's so good...they apparently asked me because someone told them I was "balanced" on the subject but this is a great point.

 

One of the best things I've heard is the difference between *socializing* and *socialization* - the first is chatting with friends, but it's what most people mean when they use the second word wrt homeschoolers. Actual socialization is just learning to get along in society, which most people eventually manage regardless of their educational background.

 

So true...I've heard it explained a few different ways but this is the clearest..

 

When my kids were in public school, there were very few opportunities for "socialization." The kids were busy doing their schoolwork and they weren't allowed to talk. They weren't even allowed to talk at lunch, because they only got a 20 minute lunch break. Some days, they didn't have recess because they had too much work to do (and they were only in school for K-2!), so they didn't even have a chance to talk to their friends at recess on those days.

What a great point...would never have thought of that.

 

The whole "socialization" thing is a non-issue for us as well but since it continues to get brought up and because people continue to confuse being social and with being socialized, I want to be clear. But my thoughts are limited to my own experience. Your perspectives are very helpful. Thank you.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

representing hs-ers. We live in a small town and there has been some tension with the ps/private/hs worlds so this panel is going to be comprised of representatives from each sector. I know the issue of "socialization" will come up and I have read through all the threads I could find on here about it. But I wonder, if it were you up there, what would you want others to know about this issue in particular? I could really use your thoughts on this...

 

When we lived in Germany, I had lots of opportunities to share about homeschooling. I tried to never talk down other people's choices. I figure that they had agonized over their children's school too and would just get defensive. I did try to emphasize the ways that homeschooling fit well with our family's needs. I would get a lot of head nodding when I mentioned things like pacing to the child's abilities and needs rather than to a fictional average child. I mentioned that this allowed me to work with my child's weaknesses, not just their strengths.

I also mentioned the local activities that we participated in (scouts, church, sports) to help ease the fears that we were trying to form a parallel society.

I'm not sure what the audience will be. I might address ways that the community can help homeschoolers be active (ex, camps at the parks department, daytime library hours, volunteer and internship opportunities) or ways that they can take advantage of the flexibility homeschoolers have (ex, daytime taekwondo classes, homeschool weeks at attractions during times that other students are in school, homeschool field trips at museums in periods when school groups can't or won't come, homeschooler teens' flexibility in work hours - there were days when 4/5 of the lifeguards at our pool were homeschoolers)

[Soph the vet]

I love talking to non-homeschoolers about socialization (yes, I know, that is weird). But I have always appreciated how homeschool kids seem to talk more naturally to adults, have more questions, and just seem more well-rounded in their relationships.

 

Two examples. Ds7 is a typical boy for his age, IMO. He gets along well with his Little League pals, yet isn't as distracted as them when the coach is addressing the team (like climbing on the backstop). And one of his best friends is our neighbor who is 80 yrs. old and loves to tinker in the garage with him. There is no "fear of the elderly".

 

The other example is that if another family comes over and there is not an age for age match-up of kids, it never seems to matter, no one feels left out. Our children don't feel above one another because of age.

[kaylk in tx]

that's what I would be ready to address... i think the socialization issue might just be red herring thrown out there because people are upset about something else. Have a short statement about socialization ready but follow it up by trying to get the discussion back to the real issues.

[Beth in OH]

I would phrase all statements in the positive such as, "We believe socialization includes XYZ experiences, and here's how we achieve them for our children." Let your statements stand for themselves, and the audience can agree or disagree with your definition of "socialization" and whether your efforts to promote it are adequate or not. Try to avoid any negative comparisons to public school. While it may be true that same age peer interactions produce cliques and hurtful behavior, and the current school structure inhibits, rather than fosters sociaization, such statements will appear defensive in this situation. You run the risk of coming across as critical of the ps and might alienate the very audience you are trying to enlighten.

 

In addition to the "getting along with people" aspects of socialization, I think people often lump some other legitimate concerns into that term. Try to address some of those as you describe the experiences you create for your family. Here are some questions that I suspect are often behind the "socialization" question.

 

Does your child have the opportunity to compare himself to others his own age to know where he excels and where he falls short in the general population? (If you don't value this opportunity, say so. I think people are afraid of homeschoolers producing isolated kids with an overblown sense of how good they are at things. The general public often views one important role of peer interaction to be "putting someone in their place." If you try to make sure that your dc have a realistic view of themselves, share how you achieve it.)

 

How does your child develop competitive skills? Does he have the opportunity to experience the shaken confidence that comes from not winning (or perhaps not even performing well) and then to come back and try again--perserverance, I guess.

 

How does your child have the opportunity to experience social rejection? Let's face it, this happens to adults in multi-age situations, too. How do you help your child experience and overcome this painful reality? I think people understand that ps teaches this lesson in an overly harsh way, but they are afraid that hs'ers avoid rejection for their children and thereby produce naive kids. If you do try to avoid rejection for your dc, explain why.

 

Good luck with your presentation. I think it's wonderful when well-reasoned hs'ers have the chance to dispel myths.:D

[OhM]

You may want to check out David Guterson's book - Family Matters. It's been some time since I've read it (maybe 10 years or so), but his take on "socialization" put the issue to rest for me.

 

A sample: "(Mass schooling) in essence removes adults from (students') lives or rather puts them there at a ratio of one to thirty and in an authoritarian role not entirely conducive to the forming of meaningful relationships." I think he also makes that point that by sending kids to the ps system, we're essentially "institutionalizing" them for the better part of 13 years.

 

In my mind, public school has a problem with socialization, not homeschooling! I usually point out the above-mentioned facts, and then explain that my children are out in the world interacting not with a closed group of same-age peers, but with younger children (who they can mentor), older children (who they often look up to), and adults from many generations, backgrounds, and cultures. I don't know if I've ever convinced anyone, but I leave no doubt that I think my kids have had superior "socialization" opportunities!

 

OTOH, it sounds like you're on this panel to foster good relations - maybe this isn't the place to attack such an entrenched institution!

[Debbie in OR]

Long story short: because we live in a (relatively) small community, all of our kids interact at a lot of different levels (church, sports, community events, sports, Awana, sports, etc.) Actually, I love this part of it because our kids have ps, private and hs friends. And for the most part, I think it works for most of us here. The tension has come mostly from the fact that the private school is struggling to stay open and it has gotten down to the wire this month. Some people in the community feel frustrated that the local churches have not gotten behind Christian education and it has been pushed up to the point that our pastor has decided to change his sermon on Sunday to address this issue. The panel has been put together to address/answer questions that might develop from the sermon and the fact that this Tuesday will be the deciding day about what the Christian school will do. When I was approached about being on the panel, I asked if I was expected to convince others that hs is The Way b/c if so, I was not their gal. Even though there are great and valid reasons why we do it, I believe it is such an individual calling. The man who is moderating it simply wants there to be an open discussion about what parents can do to as they are trying to make (possibly) alternative educational decisions for their kids. So, really, it could be all hs-ers that show up, all private, all ps or a mix of all. Living in a small town, we all are affected by changes, big and small, that take place here.

 

And as I said earlier, I'm not going to be trying to convince anyone that this is what they should be doing; I'm mainly aware that anytime hs-ing is presented, it seems that the socialization thing always comes up. And since it has not ever been an issue for us, I knew hearing from the varied experiences here would be helpful. And it truly has been helpful. I appreciate all of the comments and all of you taking the time to answer.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Long story short: because we live in a (relatively) small community, all of our kids interact at a lot of different levels (church, sports, community events, sports, Awana, sports, etc.) Actually, I love this part of it because our kids have ps, private and hs friends. And for the most part, I think it works for most of us here. The tension has come mostly from the fact that the private school is struggling to stay open and it has gotten down to the wire this month. Some people in the community feel frustrated that the local churches have not gotten behind Christian education and it has been pushed up to the point that our pastor has decided to change his sermon on Sunday to address this issue. The panel has been put together to address/answer questions that might develop from the sermon and the fact that this Tuesday will be the deciding day about what the Christian school will do. When I was approached about being on the panel, I asked if I was expected to convince others that hs is The Way b/c if so, I was not their gal. Even though there are great and valid reasons why we do it, I believe it is such an individual calling. The man who is moderating it simply wants there to be an open discussion about what parents can do to as they are trying to make (possibly) alternative educational decisions for their kids. So, really, it could be all hs-ers that show up, all private, all ps or a mix of all. Living in a small town, we all are affected by changes, big and small, that take place here.

 

And as I said earlier, I'm not going to be trying to convince anyone that this is what they should be doing; I'm mainly aware that anytime hs-ing is presented, it seems that the socialization thing always comes up. And since it has not ever been an issue for us, I knew hearing from the varied experiences here would be helpful. And it truly has been helpful. I appreciate all of the comments and all of you taking the time to answer.

 

If this is the case, you might want to come with a few other streams of thought ready.

1) Ways that the private school might partner with homeschoolers on a part time basis, providing some educational opportunities for the homeschoolers and some cash flow for the school.

2) Some basic info on different styles of homeschooling, some in the audience may be interested in homeschooling but not consider using certain methods. A book I really like for this is So You're Thinking About Homeschooling by Lisa Welchel, which lays out almost a dozen different educational styles.

3) Where you get books and what state laws are. I might just have a couple pages of resource references typed up, available for anyone who seemed interested. Most people are completely unaware of the existance of homeschool vendors or even that you can buy lots of homeschool related books from Amazon.

4) What parts of homeschooling are work or stressful for me. I have run into a few families that seem to hold the idea that just having their children at home reading books will result in a better education than any classroom alternatives. This is an extreme view, but I have run into it. It is also a view I don't think holds water. There can be both good classrooms and bad homeschools. And homeschooling does require some discipline on the part of the family (even if it can be enjoyable and rewarding).

I hope that this goes well for everyone involved. Sounds like it holds a lot of potential for hurt feelings.

[Debbie in OR]

I also mentioned the local activities that we participated in (scouts, church, sports) to help ease the fears that we were trying to form a parallel society.

 

I love the "parallel society" part...

[Debbie in OR]

OTOH, it sounds like you're on this panel to foster good relations - maybe this isn't the place to attack such an entrenched institution!

 

I am going to try and find the book just for myself. But you are exactly right...this is intended and expected to produce goodwill! Thanks for your comments.

[Debbie in OR]

There can be both good classrooms and bad homeschools.

 

My thoughts exactly...you said it much better! Thanks for your thought-through comments.