TOG- Heeeeellllllllppppppp mmmeeeeeee

[plain jane]

 

We are in Y1W1 and I'm really not grasping how I'm supposed to teach this. :001_huh:

 

For one, my oldest, who loves to read, refuses to read the Suzanne Art Strauss book :glare:. It makes it hard to go over the discussion questions when the book doesn't interest her. She's a bit young for D level work, so I don't push it but I don't have the Usborne Encyclopedia for the UG level because we're not big fans of those Usborne books.

 

So, where does that leave me? How do I "teach" her anything?? Even the teacher discussion notes don't cover the D level questions. It says in the notes that for the first few weeks they include answers to the questions but then they will stop. :001_huh: Tell me that doesn't mean I'm going to have to read 3 levels worth of books each week to find answers and have discussions? :001_huh:

 

Next, my LG/UG student has read her books but there's nothing for her to do with that knowledge except a bunch of crafts. :confused: Plus, I didn't read her books so I have no idea what she covered so I can't discuss much other than ask her questions. I wish the teacher notes had said that I should read her books if I intend to have any clue what she's reading about. Perhaps I was supposed to know this. Sigh.

 

I had visions of them reading and then getting together and having discussions and my teaching them but I'm really not clear as to what and how I'm supposed to be "teaching" them at this point.

 

Oh, and the map work. Where does one get the information to put together the maps?

 

For example, for a LG student in week one, they are to label "Black Land and Red Land" on their map. Where is this information to be found. My dd was :confused: as to what they even were. This information was not in either of her reading books. Again, I guess this goes back to my first questions- how and what am I supposed to be "teaching" them from? The UG map included 1st Cataracts, etc. But because we don't have the Ancient World encyclopedia, my kids don't even know what a Cataracts is. I didn't either :o and it's not in the teacher notes.

 

Am I too stupid to be teaching this?

[Lang Syne Boardie]

You are not too stupid! I'm in the middle of a movie with ds right now but I promise I'll be back to offer some help. This is my first year with TOG, too, and the TOG FOG was pretty thick for the first few weeks. We're on week 6 and I think I've cracked the code.

 

I'll bbl; I hope someone else will stop by and help you with UG level specifically. We're doing rhetoric.

 

:grouphug:

[TXMary2]

Are you using Classic or Redesign? The Redesign does have the answers to the Accountability/Thinking questions in the Dialectic discussion out line and most of them can be found in the world book notes too. There may sometimes be an exception for a question that is only found in a specific book. I don't sweat those.

 

As for how to teach it..... At the beginning of the week (mon, tues, wed) my ds does all the history reading and the geography assignments. For geography, I always have him read any World Book pages for the geography background information. Also, on Tuesday or Wednesday he does the famous people summaries - for these I have him copy the descriptions right from the loom pages that I print out.

 

Thursday is kind of a heavy day because this is the day we do the discussion and the "lecture" to prepare for Friday's test (evaluations). Also on Thursday, we do the Pageant of Philosophy. (I combine D/R - the only R we do is Government and Philosophy, and sometimes the literature. Otherwise Lit is D.)

 

Friday is the test (evaluations) and the Literature SAP.

 

For writing - Mondays I introduce the writing genre and assignment. I give him a handout (printed off Writing Aids) with a description of whatever genre we are doing. He highlights and takes notes. If there is a cluster map or grid or somthing to use as a tool that week then we go over it. For one week writing assignments he usually has a rough draft done Wed or Thurs for me to help him edit. Then on Fridays he types up his final draft.

 

For geography, I give my kids the map key and they copy the information from the key, onto their map. They also have to check everything off of their page where the geography assignment is listed. TOG actually suggests just giving them the key. The copying benefit gives the desired result without frustrating the child that is hunting down locations on globes and in atlases.

 

If your child isn't quite ready for D level then you can combine UG/D.

 

For my LG - we spend Monday and Tuesday doing the reading and geography. Also we discuss the vocabulary the first 2-3 days. Wednesday or Thursday is Fine Arts day. Friday we review geography.

 

For literature, we do the Lit SAP as soon as we finish the lit book.

 

I hope some of this helps you - TOG is awesome and worth figuring out and customizing. :)

 

Edited to add: I just re-read your post and I didn't answer a couple of your questions. If you purchased Map Aids, that is where you find the maps and they keys. It sounds like you want a script to tell you what to "teach" but if you take a few minutes to read over the yellow bordered sheets and the weekly "General Information For All Ages" page you will get an idea of what to focus on. With my LG - I read the history and literature to him and we discuss as we go. Also, for LG we do the Lit SAP together. He has almost no independent work when it comes to TOG assignments, I do it all with him.

Edited September 16, 2011 by TXMary2

[NorCalMom]

Your thread title is hilarious!!:lol: :lol: Alas, I can be of no help. I'm a dropout. But I'm always reading the TOG threads hoping to glean some information and wisdom. I hope to try it again someday.

 

Wishing you a blessed TOG journey,

[AngelBee]

K....post or email me ages and levels. :)

 

angelbee369 @ hotmail. com

[AngelBee]

:grouphug: TOG takes some time to find your groove. Ask me how I know. :glare: :tongue_smilie:

 

YOU CAN DO THIS! :)

 

How is the library system in your area?

 

What is MOST important to you for your students? What is their learning style?

 

Do they enjoy reading? Hands on projects? Map work? Songs? :)

[plain jane]

:grouphug: TOG takes some time to find your groove. Ask me how I know.

 

YOU CAN DO THIS! :)

 

How is the library system in your area?

 

What is MOST important to you for your students? What is their learning style?

 

Do they enjoy reading? Hands on projects? Map work? Songs? :)

 

Oh, I own all the books. :tongue_smilie::lol: Yup, every single one on the primary reading list for LG/UG/D levels.

 

They enjoy reading and hands-on projects. I mostly went with TOG b/c we wanted a lot of both.

 

But I also want to be able to sit with them and "teach" but I can't figure out how w/o reading all their books. The teacher notes are not what I hoped they'd be and it's all so confusing. :001_huh:

 

I'll be back later to clarify. I have to get through our other subjects first.:tongue_smilie:

[AngelBee]

:grouphug: We will get it figured out.

 

I haven't used YR1, but I will look over TOG site and my notes. :)

[makagrin]

Yes, I'm afraid I can't help either. But I wanted you to feel a bit better that I have the same problem in Year 2, we are unit 1, LG, and the teacher prep time isnt' helping me make it fun (which it should be at this level). We did the salt map, read all the story books, and my 7yo is doing things like: "Oh!" just to try to sound interested. I will say that I learned A LOT. And IF I was doing an older level UG/Dialectic with it I think it would work well and pull all of us together. A friend of mine did tell me (who is a 30yr homeschool veteran) that I should ignore anything the "manual" asks that I know isn't going to be a good fit for my child, and since my child likes to read, look for supplemental book lists that talk about the same period. I thought that was good advice, but I don't have the time to do more prep work.

From other message boards on here I'd say there are some who are very BIG fans of TOG, and I was so ready to LOVE it, but it isn't fitting. And the biggest bummer is it took three weeks to receive post-order, and then it took me three weeks to get it situated so I felt ready to teach (and even put the pages in page protectors and binders, and now three weeks in, I have to pay a 15% restock fee to return. Argh.

So my only advice is that you pull back from it a bit, and just do what you can make interesting and enjoyable. We all learn better that way. I love classical education, but I want my child to love her education more. Hard balance sometimes...

[AngelBee]

Yes, I'm afraid I can't help either. But I wanted you to feel a bit better that I have the same problem in Year 2, we are unit 1, LG, and the teacher prep time isnt' helping me make it fun (which it should be at this level). We did the salt map, read all the story books, and my 7yo is doing things like: "Oh!" just to try to sound interested. I will say that I learned A LOT. And IF I was doing an older level UG/Dialectic with it I think it would work well and pull all of us together. A friend of mine did tell me (who is a 30yr homeschool veteran) that I should ignore anything the "manual" asks that I know isn't going to be a good fit for my child, and since my child likes to read, look for supplemental book lists that talk about the same period. I thought that was good advice, but I don't have the time to do more prep work.

From other message boards on here I'd say there are some who are very BIG fans of TOG, and I was so ready to LOVE it, but it isn't fitting. And the biggest bummer is it took three weeks to receive post-order, and then it took me three weeks to get it situated so I felt ready to teach (and even put the pages in page protectors and binders, and now three weeks in, I have to pay a 15% restock fee to return. Argh.

So my only advice is that you pull back from it a bit, and just do what you can make interesting and enjoyable. We all learn better that way. I love classical education, but I want my child to love her education more. Hard balance sometimes...

:grouphug:

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I took a minute to try to find the problem, but I wasn't familiar with any of the lower level books so I don't think I can help after all. Also, the rhetoric level has discussion questions for everything. I'm surprised to find that the lower levels don't.

 

We did have a few weeks where I didn't feel the geography was explained well at all (rhetoric level). We filled in the gaps with the internet and the library, but I kind of resented having to do that after buying all of the rhetoric books. ($$$$$$)

[Scuff]

K....post or email me ages and levels. :)

 

angelbee369 @ hotmail. com

 

Do not email. All posts must be here for the public (aka- those of us who also need heeeelllllppppp) to see. :iagree:

[AngelBee]

Do not email. All posts must be here for the public (aka- those of us who also need heeeelllllppppp) to see. :iagree:

 

:lol:

[AngelBee]

Anyone new to TOG should watch this: http://tapestryofgrace.com/blog/2011/08/weekly-planning-with-tapestry/

[King Alfred Academy]

Also, on Tuesday or Wednesday he does the famous people summaries - for these I have him copy the descriptions right from the loom pages that I print out.

 

 

 

I like this idea, but I can't find the pages on the loom you are referring to. :blush: Could you please tell me where on the Loom they are located?

 

Thanks! :001_smile:

[AngelBee]

This is a blog post by the author. Though about finances, I think it is good at explaining the "buffet" idea.

[cmarango]

I think it would be helpful if you posted what portions of TOG you are trying to use (eg. history, geography, literature, writing, fine arts, bible). As for your eldest not liking the core history book, have you thought about using some of the alternates. An UG alternate is SOTW.

[AngelBee]

Have you tried either the white or red Kingfisher History Encyclopedias?

[TXMary2]

I like this idea, but I can't find the pages on the loom you are referring to. :blush: Could you please tell me where on the Loom they are located?

 

Thanks! :001_smile:

 

It is under Glossaries - titled "People Glossary." There is a vocabulary list too, with all the definitions and I use that when doing Vocab with my LG.

[AngelBee]

This is a blog post by the author. Though about finances, I think it is good at explaining the "buffet" idea.

 

Forgot link :D http://tapestryofgrace.com/blog/2011/03/homeschooling-in-hard-times-money-and-books-part-i/

[King Alfred Academy]

It is under Glossaries - titled "People Glossary." There is a vocabulary list too, with all the definitions and I use that when doing Vocab with my LG.

 

Thanks for replying, Mary. I have the first printing of TOG Redesign and it is not on my Loom CD. I do, however, see it under the DE version. Maybe the generous people at Lampstand will allow me access. :001_smile:

[plain jane]

I think it would be helpful if you posted what portions of TOG you are trying to use (eg. history, geography, literature, writing, fine arts, bible). As for your eldest not liking the core history book, have you thought about using some of the alternates. An UG alternate is SOTW.

 

I'm thinking that my problem is probably my own misunderstanding of what TOG is and what it provides me with rather than a flaw with the program.

 

I'm simply finding the history portion for the LG/UG/D levels to be rather disjointed. I admit I should have read through the teacher notes more extensively during the summer and I would have realized that all the notes are geared towards the R level.

 

Also, my own history knowledge is not very strong :o so I don't feel I have the background to teach this well. For example, some of the places that the geography section would have the kids write down- I didn't know what/where they were (easy enough to look up) but I had no knowledge of their significance and could not teach/explain to my kids why we were mapping them. I guess I should have looked at the week farther in advance and done the research rather than assuming, or hoping ;) that it would be in the weekly plans. :tongue_smilie: For example, Dialectic Levels have to map Lake Tanganyika and Zembezi River. I would have liked to have known at least a bit about them and why they are being asked to map them.

 

Sigh. I know it's probably just me. I'm having a harder time pulling it together for my guys so it all makes sense and flows. It feels very disjointed at the moment and I don't feel their knowledge has grown any.

 

Everything they read this week, they already knew. :001_huh:

 

They are having fun with all the hands-on stuff though. :D I was just hoping for more in-depth history stuff aimed at their level. The program is definitely heavy on the R level stuff. My grade 2 student was bored and wanting more and I wasn't quite sure what to do with her other than give her another book to read. I guess I should have had a book planned to read and discuss together, I just didn't realize she'd read both the history books for the week in 15 minutes and our discussion would last 1/2 beyond that. I've been scheduling in one hour per day for history and we've spent most of it on crafts. :lol:

[AngelBee]

I believe wk1 is also lighter than other weeks. More of a set up of what is to come.

 

Maybe look ahead and see if that may be the case.

[AngelBee]

I was thinking, maybe you should look into the YR1 Evaluations. I think they are 50.00 for all 4 levels and can be used over and over. That may be a better jump off point for LG/UG discussions. ???

[plain jane]

I was thinking, maybe you should look into the YR1 Evaluations. I think they are 50.00 for all 4 levels and can be used over and over. That may be a better jump off point for LG/UG discussions. ???

 

oh! That's a fabulous idea! I'm going to print out the ones with the answers filled in and use those for further discussions!!!

 

Thank you!!!

 

What sort of written work do kids do with TOG? I don't mean the WA necessarily, but with regards to the history core/in-depth. Do people add in history the WTM way? Or does WA replace that?

 

I feel like my kids should be writing an outline or narration or something. :lol::lol:

[Momofeat]

I'm thinking that my problem is probably my own misunderstanding of what TOG is and what it provides me with rather than a flaw with the program.

 

I'm simply finding the history portion for the LG/UG/D levels to be rather disjointed. I admit I should have read through the teacher notes more extensively during the summer and I would have realized that all the notes are geared towards the R level.

 

Also, my own history knowledge is not very strong :o so I don't feel I have the background to teach this well. For example, some of the places that the geography section would have the kids write down- I didn't know what/where they were (easy enough to look up) but I had no knowledge of their significance and could not teach/explain to my kids why we were mapping them. I guess I should have looked at the week farther in advance and done the research rather than assuming, or hoping ;) that it would be in the weekly plans. :tongue_smilie: For example, Dialectic Levels have to map Lake Tanganyika and Zembezi River. I would have liked to have known at least a bit about them and why they are being asked to map them.

 

Sigh. I know it's probably just me. I'm having a harder time pulling it together for my guys so it all makes sense and flows. It feels very disjointed at the moment and I don't feel their knowledge has grown any.

 

Everything they read this week, they already knew. :001_huh:

 

They are having fun with all the hands-on stuff though. :D I was just hoping for more in-depth history stuff aimed at their level. The program is definitely heavy on the R level stuff. My grade 2 student was bored and wanting more and I wasn't quite sure what to do with her other than give her another book to read. I guess I should have had a book planned to read and discuss together, I just didn't realize she'd read both the history books for the week in 15 minutes and our discussion would last 1/2 beyond that. I've been scheduling in one hour per day for history and we've spent most of it on crafts. :lol:

 

I am also new to TOG, so I cannot help with many of your questions. However, we are participating in a TOG co-op, and I placed my extremely strong 3rd grade reader in LG mainly so she could be with a friend. I am making it more challenging for her by checking out as many alternate UG books as possible from the library. We are also focusing more on writing and math this year, and I am not worrying about the lack of discussion. Every now and then I'll include her in a discussion with my D dd. ;)

[AngelBee]

oh! That's a fabulous idea! I'm going to print out the ones with the answers filled in and use those for further discussions!!!

 

Thank you!!!

 

What sort of written work do kids do with TOG? I don't mean the WA necessarily, but with regards to the history core/in-depth. Do people add in history the WTM way? Or does WA replace that?

 

I feel like my kids should be writing an outline or narration or something. :lol::lol:

 

We do oral and written narrations. Copywork. Vocabulary. Will be starting outlining and notetaking. Thinking...

[momee]

"I'm simply finding the history portion for the LG/UG/D levels to be rather disjointed. I admit I should have read through the teacher notes more extensively during the summer and I would have realized that all the notes are geared towards the R level."

 

Reading the notes will help you get that grasp you're looking for on the significance of what they're reading. It won't necessarily be for them to learn all that. At this point, you're going for the classical education's goal of exposure. Ok? Exposure. Exposure to history topics, exposure to setting down and reading a book for school well enough to discuss one maybe! two things with mom/dad. Be a bit easier. Believe me, it will get harder!

 

 

"Also, my own history knowledge is not very strong so I don't feel I have the background to teach this well."

 

Exactly why you are blessed to be using TOG with them at this point so you may gain that knowledge. It will come together, over time. Are you reading for pleasure the rhetoric info? This might help give you some assurance by giving you the end pic of where your kids will be. Trust it for them until you know :) it will work.

 

 

"For example, some of the places that the geography section would have the kids write down- I didn't know what/where they were (easy enough to look up) but I had no knowledge of their significance and could not teach/explain to my kids why we were mapping them. I guess I should have looked at the week farther in advance and done the research rather than assuming, or hoping that it would be in the weekly plans. For example, Dialectic Levels have to map Lake Tanganyika and Zembezi River. I would have liked to have known at least a bit about them and why they are being asked to map them."

 

Doesn't usually happen that way. Remember exposure. Have you read all of the kid's assignments? Usually it's an obscure mention in the literature or the history that denotes it getting placed on the grid to map. They don't have to know why, they're learning how right now. They why comes later. It really, really does.

HTH

[momee]

"She's a bit young for D level work, so I don't push it but I don't have the Usborne Encyclopedia for the UG level because we're not big fans of those Usborne books"

 

I also wanted to reassure you that working one level ahead of where she would normally be can end up looking like refusal to work when sometimes it be that the work is just too difficult.

 

I've btdt, even enforcing consequences for "disobedience" in my son. The work was too difficult, he was too "immature" meaning not mature enough yet to explain that fact to me, so we battled.

Do it with her? Ignore it, or find an alternate?

HTH and doesn't condemn. I've been there and it's not an easy place as mom with all the other stuff you have going on in your day to see this sometimes. It might not be the case, but usually if my kids can intellectually handle an assignment and they're well fed, rested and equipped to do it, it's not a battle. And if it is, one of those things are off, we fix that and then I come in and learn right alongside them. Again, hth.

 

"So, where does that leave me? How do I "teach" her anything?? Even the teacher discussion notes don't cover the D level questions. It says in the notes that for the first few weeks they include answers to the questions but then they will stop. Tell me that doesn't mean I'm going to have to read 3 levels worth of books each week to find answers and have discussions? "

I don't understand your question, sorry. How do you teach her? Let her read. Go over the assignment with her. Are you saying you can't find answers to the D questions? Call TOG. They've made great strides since classic of including the answers. I don't know what "then they will stop means". Sorry.

Hoping all this helps. TOG is not easy to get started with for you, nor is it what your kids might be used to in terms of workload and even reading choices. IF I might offer, remember to encourage, encourage, encourage. Praise their ability to discuss what they're reading with you. I nitpicked each little answer because it didn't match TOG's version (not because it was incorrect, but because it was too brief). Mistake. HTH

 

Oh, I can actually answer this one :)

"For example, for a LG student in week one, they are to label "Black Land and Red Land" on their map. Where is this information to be found. My dd was as to what they even were. This information was not in either of her reading books."

It should be in her reading assignment. The black and red are referring to Egypt, right? Wasn't it divided? Well, I thought I could answer it, but it should be mentioned in their reading. Again, call TOG. They're used to and very willing to help with those type questions. I know they're used to it, I've called MANY times. :) I can't say how many times I had to read and re-read an assigned book to find one sentence that included the answer. Didn't equate for happy thoughts in me or my children. That's not, in my humble opinion, what I'm after in hs'ing. I want them to learn to learn and like it. What's your goal? That they complete every ? or get a general feeling of the period or exposure or...

DH helped me immensely in this area. He wanted simple exposure and effort on their part, but that's just us. Knowing your goals for the week (and TOG's goals, did you find where those are listed each week for each level, those are great helps!) will help you focus on what they need to accomplish.

 

"The UG map included 1st Cataracts, etc. But because we don't have the Ancient World encyclopedia, my kids don't even know what a Cataracts is. I didn't either and it's not in the teacher notes. "

It's not listed on the answer key map? Strange. I will say it's very difficult to use TOG at the dialectic and rhetoric level without the exact book. If you don't have it and she can't find it, let it go. It'll be ok. Or have her use google. That's fun for them, usually.

This is what I'm trying to say although I guess I'm long winded about it trying to answer all of your questions. Don't be so precise in every single answer. This may be perceived by some as encouraging a lack of discipline but it's really not. They're just getting used to everything and your praising what they did right will go a long way in their confidence, and yours. Hugs because I have totally been there and ended up letting it get the best of me. None of us had that joy of learning because I looked more at what they didn't learn than what they did. OH well, live and learn. Posting replies in hopes that my experience with these type problems (not just an issue with TOG, hsing in general) can help put some perspective on it. They will learn a ton. You will too :) Praise Him for that, right? Have a great day with your precious kids. Before you know it , they'll be off at college, basking in all that effort you are pouring into them.

Edited September 17, 2011 by momee

[tarahillmom]

I started this 6 weeks ago at year 3/unit 3 with my 3. I have the DE. I have found even reading one of the kid's history levels has helped me have better discussions(I do LG as read alouds to my 1st grader). I also say reading the teacher's notes is incredibly helpful for the D level. It took a while for us to get in the groove, but my kids are beyond thrilled with what they are reading. I have also been doing a hybrid of levels. If something looks more interesting to you on another part of the list for the week, go ahead and use it.

 

As far as the geography it recommends a good atlas of world history. I was able to pick one up used on line for under $10. Mapaids are very helpful as well. That along with google has made it a breeze.

 

I second the evaluations, they have made my life a lot easier. I understand your pain with 3 levels, but know that once you get a rhythm to planning, your week, etc... you will get it.

 

I think the saving grace for me when I started was the first couple of weeks all we did was TOG. I added math, science, etc... after I had a handle on how the program worked. I hope your frustration dies down soon.

[hollyandab]

We're 5 wks into TOG yr 3, although I have put together my "own" version of TOG for the past few years. My boys, 6th grade, are now at the level that I didn't "trust" myself to put it together anymore! So, I finally bought it, and boy am I glad! It has been such a load off of me having the readings all scheduled out. I think I was expecting them to read more than I should have, because TOG actually feels lighter than what I was doing...woops!

 

Anyhow, if you can locate the people and vocab definitions on the Loom, that is a great help right there for discussion. I usually go over those on Mondays and then again on Fridays, expecting them to be able to tell me who the people are, what they did, why they're important, and such. I decided to keep my boys at upper grammar level, even though one of them (they're twins) would be fine at dialectic. I still read the main history spines with them, but everything else they do on their own. By reading the spine with them, the vocab and people list, and the "general information for all ages" page with them, this typically gives us plenty of discussion time together. I also bump my one ds up to D level for literature. He even said he wanted more lit to read, so I'm adding in supplements either from the TOG alternate page or from Sonlight lists to fill his reading in.

 

So, if it's possible, maybe you could combine UG and D dc together for the main history spine readings to do together as a family? Then you could have discussions together from that... ??? It seems to be working well for us, and it keeps me in the "history loop" with them. Also, I think I remember reading on the TOG Threads yahoo group (which you should join if you're not--tons of lovely ladies with great help) that yrs 1 and 2 D level do not have discussions yet...??? Not sure about that, but I know yr 3 has tons of discussions for history and literature on the D level, as does yr 4.

 

Also, I would buy Map Aids if you haven't. It has all of the answers right there, without having to look them up. Even if they don't know the significance of a particular place, they're still learning where it is and how to spell it, and that will come back to them when they're older and revisit that section of history.

 

Anyhow, hang in there... It may seem a bit disjointed, but I think that in the end, the R level, it will all come together.

 

Blessings,

Holly