Phonics & reading

[MamaBearMO]

I'm stumped about what to do with DS. He's seven and we've been working on phonics for almost a year and can't seem to get past the CVC words. He knows all his letter sounds in and out and reads the CVC words well, but each time we move on to the next step, he just gets frustrated and has difficulty with the additional material. I'm at a loss as to what to do and getting worried.

 

He can read almost any word in isolation when we do the lessons. For example, yesterday we worked on sh, ch, and th. We did lots of work, he did really well with the new words and then we moved on to read a couple of short stories in controlled readers. He didn't do so well. He stumbled on the new words and was making mistakes with the CVC words he knows like the back of his hand.

 

Is this a problem? Is it that he just needs more practice? Any suggestions?

[mytwomonkeys]

it could be something related to vision or processing or could simply be that he just needs more practice. my own son is 7 1/2. when we read together, i use my finger to follow each word. as he progresses, i'll eventually use a piece of paper to help him stay on the correct line. if he gets a word wrong or pauses too long, i simply say it for him and we move forward in the story (or if the word starts with "ch", i may simply say that part out loud to help him along). this year, we are going through HOP grade 1 again to solidify what he has already learned before moving onto HOP 2 (probably nov. or dec). if your son is struggling with blends, i would introduce only one at a time. you can make up silly sentences and stories using very controlled words to ensure success. with my daughter, i always wrote the books for her, as she really struggled with reading in the beginning and would get so frustrated. we also enjoyed the free sam books online (i think that's what they were called?). i hope others chime in with great advice:grouphug:

 

ETA - i forgot, something that helped my son with blends last year was to underline them in the books. i would take a pencil and go through and underling them all, so he could visually see that the sounds belong together. does that make sense?

Edited August 25, 2011 by mytwomonkeys

[MamaBearMO]

The underlining worked! I read your reply and took out the reader, underlined the th, sh, and ch in the two stories and we read them again today. He missed only one word today and wasn't going nearly as slowly as yesterday.

 

I just sometimes feel like I have no clue if I'm doing this right or not. How quickly should a kid be advancing through phonics and reading? Are we supposed to do a lesson a day, a lesson a week, every few days? I just can't figure out how to pace with the phonics and reading - I feel like we're going painfully slow and that he should be reading by now, but it seems like he's struggling to get even the basics. Yet he's really bright and doing well with math, science and history. It's like this one thing, reading, is just not clicking for him and everything else he's speeding along with. How does that happen and should I stop doing the other stuff and just concentrate on his reading until he's better with reading?

[ElizabethB]

:grouphug:

 

I would try the I See Sam readers, they nicely mix in some long vowel words. There is also a group where you can get help using them, ask on the Special Needs board.

 

Also, add in some spelling. And, you could try Webster's Speller and/or my online phonics lessons. Here is a thread about how I used Webster's Speller with my son for K last year:

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208407

 

And, what I do with my remedial students in addition to my phonics lessons:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/howtotutor.html

[MamaBearMO]

Thank you Elizabeth. I'm off to read the links!

[Ellie]

It would be helpful if we knew what you're using to teach him. :)

[MamaBearMO]

oh doh!

 

I am new here, sorry I forgot to say what we're doing. We started all about spelling last month and are also using hooked on phonics first grade, right now the first workbook and dvd that goes with it. We're up to lesson 12 in all about spelling and in the first section of hooked on phonics (th, sh, wh). I looked at what's coming up and all about spelling is taking a big leap in the next lesson with a lot of the consonant blends at one time, where hooked on phonics does the same, but in a bunch of lessons, through the rest of the first workbook.

 

I just feel like I have no clue what I'm doing here. Do I stop all about spelling and do the hooked on phonics to have him get all the blends, then do all about spelling for practice? Do I just keep moving on with all about spelling and keep going with hooked on phonics even though they're not totally lined up now? Is there something out there that lines up with all about spelling? I really like it and so does my son and I do think it's helping him with reading some, but like I said, he's taking forever to learn to read and I''m not sure if I'm doing this all right or not and don't want him to not be able to read!

[Ellie]

oh doh!

 

I am new here, sorry I forgot to say what we're doing. We started all about spelling last month and are also using hooked on phonics first grade, right now the first workbook and dvd that goes with it. We're up to lesson 12 in all about spelling and in the first section of hooked on phonics (th, sh, wh). I looked at what's coming up and all about spelling is taking a big leap in the next lesson with a lot of the consonant blends at one time, where hooked on phonics does the same, but in a bunch of lessons, through the rest of the first workbook.

 

I just feel like I have no clue what I'm doing here. Do I stop all about spelling and do the hooked on phonics to have him get all the blends, then do all about spelling for practice? Do I just keep moving on with all about spelling and keep going with hooked on phonics even though they're not totally lined up now? Is there something out there that lines up with all about spelling? I really like it and so does my son and I do think it's helping him with reading some, but like I said, he's taking forever to learn to read and I''m not sure if I'm doing this all right or not and don't want him to not be able to read!

That helps. :)

 

FTR, he isn't "taking forever" to learn to read. :)

 

My first thought would be to drop HOP and stick with AAS. Also, be sure you're following AAS as closely as possible. Don't skip anything. :)

[MamaBearMO]

Will just doing all about spelling work on it's own? I just got the three books for reading that goes with the program that's coming out in October and I wish it was out already. My son does really like the spelling program and the readers we got are nice. I think I'm just worried because we're new to this and I don't want to mess him up. It does feel like he's taking a long time to get reading, but I have no idea how long it takes or how it goes or how it is supposed to go?

[mytwomonkeys]

well, we really enjoy HOP:). i've used k-2 and their master reader, so for *us*, i would not drop that at all. my daughter reads wonderfully & my son is well on his way. i've always used HOP in conjunction with another program for grades k & 1st, so I don't see doing AAS alongside it as an issue. plus, HOP incorporates spelling as well.

 

i think you could stay with AAS and just go very slow. if he is still really struggling with something, don't move forward. rather i'd stay and review until you know he's ready to progress. we used AAS with my daughter for 2nd grade (we used levels 1 & 2). she used the tiles and a white board for spelling. we ended up moving on from AAS for 3rd grade though.

 

don't feel overwhelmed. your son is progressing, so i'd say it's best to focus on solidifying what he's learned instead of adding more and more, ykwim? it sounds like he's doing fine! just since yesterday he has made improvements. that's great!!

[mytwomonkeys]

Will just doing all about spelling work on it's own? I just got the three books for reading that goes with the program that's coming out in October and I wish it was out already. My son does really like the spelling program and the readers we got are nice. I think I'm just worried because we're new to this and I don't want to mess him up. It does feel like he's taking a long time to get reading, but I have no idea how long it takes or how it goes or how it is supposed to go?

 

sure, that would work. they have "all about reading" too...so you could just use that instead of HOP:)

[MamaBearMO]

sure, that would work. they have "all about reading" too...so you could just use that instead of HOP:)

 

The level 1 isn't going to be ready until, I think, October? I did buy the readers though and they're really good. I wish level 1 was already done!

[mindygz]

My DS6.5 is also poking along...sounds a lot like your son. I remind myself (a LOT!) that my DD9 didn't really take off with reading until halfway through 2nd grade, and now she's a GREAT reader and she loves to read. With both of them, it helped to keep in mind that most kids even out by the time they are in 3rd grade, so you don't have to feel quite so stressed with the kids who come to it later.

 

"Just keep swimming," right? :001_smile:

[MerryAtHope]

 

I just sometimes feel like I have no clue if I'm doing this right or not. How quickly should a kid be advancing through phonics and reading? Are we supposed to do a lesson a day, a lesson a week, every few days? I just can't figure out how to pace with the phonics and reading - I feel like we're going painfully slow and that he should be reading by now, but it seems like he's struggling to get even the basics. Yet he's really bright and doing well with math, science and history. It's like this one thing, reading, is just not clicking for him and everything else he's speeding along with. How does that happen and should I stop doing the other stuff and just concentrate on his reading until he's better with reading?

 

You are doing just fine. The answer to how quickly you should be advancing, is...you should be going at his pace. You don't want to push him through at some pre-determined pace that isn't right for his needs. When he's an adult, no one will care what grade he was when he learned to read fluently. Give him the time he needs and you'll be doing well.

 

With AAS, you don't have to finish a step in a day (in fact, I would say if you are trying to do that, slow things down to give him more time to solidify what he learns from each step--that will help with reading too). Aim to work for about 15-20 minutes. Start each day with the review cards, and then pick up in the book wherever you left off previously.

 

You can expand the reading practice by having him read words he makes with tiles, have him read the green word cards, and have him read the dictations--either in the book or write them out one at a time on a white board so the print is larger. Also have him read the reinforcement words--again you can write them or make them with tiles. Or, you can put them on blank word cards and add them to his review for extra reading--here's a form you can use.

 

Step 12 can be tricky for some kids, so if he needs more time on sh, th, and ch words, you might spend time on that step. You can try putting all like words together (all words with sh first, etc...), and when he's doing well with those, then try mixing them up and seeing how he does.

 

You can also take the words from his readers, make them first with tiles, and then try the reader again.

 

Hang in there, and try not to worry about the time it takes. Your hard work will pay off! Merry :-)

[ElizabethB]

If you do decide to continue with HOP, I would make sure you are teaching the sight words phonetically. Teaching them as wholes slows down the phonics learning process and causes confusion. With my remedial students, the more sight words they get, the more guessing problems they have and the longer it takes to remediate.

 

Here is how and why not to teach sight words, and how to teach all but 5 of the most commonly taught 220 sight word phonetically:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/sightwords.html

 

I would also add in some nonsense words to counteract the sight words if you have taught any of them as wholes by sight. My free game makes both real and nonsense words and is a fun way to practice:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Phonics/concentrationgam.html

 

(It is a fun way to sneak in extra practice even if you haven't taught any of the sight words as wholes.)

[MamaBearMO]

If you do decide to continue with HOP, I would make sure you are teaching the sight words phonetically. Teaching them as wholes slows down the phonics learning process and causes confusion. With my remedial students, the more sight words they get, the more guessing problems they have and the longer it takes to remediate.

 

Here is how and why not to teach sight words, and how to teach all but 5 of the most commonly taught 220 sight word phonetically:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/sightwords.html

 

I would also add in some nonsense words to counteract the sight words if you have taught any of them as wholes by sight. My free game makes both real and nonsense words and is a fun way to practice:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Phonics/concentrationgam.html

 

(It is a fun way to sneak in extra practice even if you haven't taught any of the sight words as wholes.)

 

Looks like I intuitively did something right! I have skipped most of the sight words hooked on phonics has with each unit because most, to me, could be sounded out. I think the ones my son knows now as sight words would be one, is, of, the and if since they happen so often in text. But most of the others on the list I have taught him to sound out when it worked phonetically. Your pages are very helpful Elizabeth!

[MamaBearMO]

I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who replied. I am feeling much less stressed this afternoon. I was paranoid I was doing something wrong because my son seems to be taking a while to learn how to read. His friends in public school are reading, or so I'm told by friends, so I was getting very worried I'm doing something wrong. I'll keep plugging away and go at his pace and see how things go the next month or so. Today, the underlining was a great add-on, it worked so well with him, he did great! I have our lesson for tomorrow laid out and used two different color markers for the words I'll introduce with the ending consonant teams since he did awesome with the th, sh and ch today. If he needs to step back and do more, we will, but he aced the spelling test today and asked for more, so we did more words and so I'll move forward tomorrow to lesson 13 with all about spelling.

[ElizabethB]

I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who replied. I am feeling much less stressed this afternoon. I was paranoid I was doing something wrong because my son seems to be taking a while to learn how to read. His friends in public school are reading, or so I'm told by friends, so I was getting very worried I'm doing something wrong. I'll keep plugging away and go at his pace and see how things go the next month or so. Today, the underlining was a great add-on, it worked so well with him, he did great! I have our lesson for tomorrow laid out and used two different color markers for the words I'll introduce with the ending consonant teams since he did awesome with the th, sh and ch today. If he needs to step back and do more, we will, but he aced the spelling test today and asked for more, so we did more words and so I'll move forward tomorrow to lesson 13 with all about spelling.

 

Between that and sounding out all those sight words, you are doing great!

 

Some of those kids are reading...some of them just look like they are and are just memorizing sight words. By fourth grade, many of them will be behind but the phonics taught children will be able to sound out anything. Slow and steady wins the race.

[threeofakind]

Sounds like you've had some good advice and things went smoother but I just wanted to share one thought. First I have minimal experience with HOP and zero with AAS; but some kids do well when whatever the focus is in phonics is exactly what they are using in their spelling and reading- hearing (phonemic awareness activities), seeing, saying and then spelling helps solidify the reading skills. I don't know if the programs work that way, but if he needs extra time provide many mini exercises several days a week.

 

Also you will not mess him up!! I was a reading sp. and my son has had to work hard at reading and he was 8 when something clicked for him!:001_smile:

[hollyh]

I'm not familiar with the programs, but used to teach 1st/2nd. Since the underlining worked, here are some more ideas to try out and get your mind thinking about what you can do

- print out stories/sentences - have him color the letter blends that you are working on before he reads them

- use letter tiles, magnets, strips of paper, etc. to have him create words- or you create the words and have him read them.

- vary up your lessons with whiteboards, crayons, markers, chalk, etc. using varying colors for him to see and create his interest

-print out word wheels with the sounds you are working on to help him practice blending, etc. (google word wheels and you will find free sites)

-find games online with whatever sounds you are working on and make printable games for him.

-buy a special pointy finger or something fun for him to use when he sounds out words (think halloween witch fingers w/ nails) - will make it fun to point and read words

 

Good luck. He'll get there. Just keep working on it and remember that boys do generally read a bit later than girls as well.

[MamaBearMO]

So many great ideas!

 

My son would love a pointer, so I think I'm going to get him one.

 

I've really mixed things up the last week or so, and he's doing much better. I think maybe I was just keep the lessons so dry and not moving forward since he wasn't yet fluent. What I'm finding is that it's okay to move forward, I just have to keep going over what we did a few days ago and include the old and the new.

 

Today we'll play go fish with cards I made that have all the blends we've gone through and some words with the long vowel sound. I think this week we'll continue reviewing the blends and short and long vowels using a lot of games, the white board and do a couple of the all about spelling lessons since we haven't done any in the last week or so.

 

I'm slowly feeling more confident with this.

[mothergooseof4]

I just want to offer you some encouragement. My first hs student was my stepdd and she had already learned to read in ps. My oldest ds pretty much taught himself to read with just a little help from me. So, this reading thing was simple up till ds #2.....whoa did he play a number on my confidence. We have always used O-G methods, which is how AAS is set up. I have used two complete learning to read programs with him. Plus, he is now 9 and in the last section of Phonics Road 1.

 

He can read, but still struggles. I remember him getting stuck in different spots, like cvc words for your son, and it taking months to get past them. It seems that when he learns something new, something he has known for ages flies out the back door of his brain. He would finish up a part of a curriculum and the next section would look like a HUGE jump for him so we would take a detour. He can spell words, then has a hard time reading them later. It has been a frustrating road for both of us. What worked one day wouldn't interest him the next.

 

He read some of The Littles to me last night. This is the most intimidating book I have ever had him read. He is doing okay, but still makes mistakes and goes slow. The good news is that even after reading it so slowly, he has perfect comprehension.

 

I have read every list of symptoms for different things that I can think of and he really doesn't fit into any of them. So, I don't think he has a LD. He may have a touch of ADD, but not hyperactive. He did just get reading glasses since he is slightly farsighted. If things don't get better, we will be going to one of the COVD doctors to check for other vision issues, but I really don't think this is it either.

 

It has been a long road, but I honestly don't think there is a problem. I really think it is just taking him longer for it to all click in his brain. The sad part is that he notices that other kids at church read better than he does and it bothers him. Dd is almost two years younger than ds and she can read circles around him. That stings for him, but at least shows me that I can teach reading. She didn't self-teach like my oldest so I know the programs I use work.

 

Just keep working at it and realize that some kids are easy....do the curriculum and they read like dd. But, some cause us to constantly stop, reevaluate, replan, learn something new ourselves, and proceed. In the end, I feel much more emotional when I hear ds read because I know a lot of hard work has gone into that process from both of us.