Furman University - our visit report

[creekland]

As promised, here's our visit report for Furman University through the eyes of a high stat potential med school wannabe... We took their tour, met with a Pre-Health advisor, then ate lunch.

 

Furman University is a small Liberal Arts College located in Greenville, SC. Located "in" Greenville, SC is a wee bit misleading as it is really on the outskirts of the city and is its own little place/campus - separated from pretty much everything except a bike trail leading into Greenville (a few miles away). Just outside of campus, but not within walking distance, are some fast food places and very basic shopping. Motels are a few miles away.

 

But I digress. Furman is a small LAC with approx 2700 undergrads and a handful of grad students. About 70% come from out of state. They are currently ranked in the top 50 for LACs, but are not top of the top. Nonetheless, they have a good reputation both academically and for student aid, so they made middle son's radar to check out.

 

For those who might have interest in it, they are a test optional school. While their test scores are generally on the higher end (not super high, but high), they made a point to say they will look at portfolios, activities, and other potential "interesting" things that might better show off a student's college potential - especially for those in majors that don't traditionally score well on these tests. Homeschoolers are welcome. No SAT II tests are needed either.

 

The campus is literally beautiful. As youngest son put it, "It's like having a botanical garden with a college put inside of it." There are trees and flowers everywhere as well as a gorgeous lake/park with their signature bell tower. The college moved from downtown Greenville approx 50 years ago and enlisted top designers when planning their new place. It shows. It's worth a tour just to see this place compared to many places we've visited. The buildings are brick (appealing brick), the green space is spacious, huge shade trees abound, and it all just looks like a great place to spend 4 years.

 

Everyone was super friendly here - and I do mean everyone. The staff at the welcome center (understandably so) started it off, but even when eating lunch there (on the house) at the dining hall, the security guard stopped by with some friendly conversation - as did the gentleman taking our tickets for lunch - and a handful of others we came across elsewhere on campus.

 

The tour took us around and through a few buildings - all looked VERY updated and welcoming, but it skipped dorms and the rec center (take that for what it's worth). My kiddo isn't deciding on a place based on dorms or the rec center, so that was no big deal for him. It was rather unusual not to see them on a tour though. They do give each student a post office box (as do most schools, but our last visit, Alabama, did not - hence - special attention this time on our part).

 

ALL classes (even introductory classes) are small here. The average class size is 19 (maybe 18) and the largest classes are supposed to be capped at 30 if I remember the tour guide correctly. Professors will know their students and the student will be missed if they skip class. The classes are taught in an "engaging" format - more discussion based than lecture. It sounded ideal, but we never got to talk with an actual student to see how this plays out in reality. Being an LAC, they have more classes than other colleges as required courses - it's part of their effort to provide a broad education (as per their type of college).

 

There are oodles of clubs, roughly 30% of the students go greek, and the college brings in entertainment for the students. On top of that, students go into Greenville's downtown regularly on weekends (hearsay). We had a chance to visit downtown Greenville on Sunday - really nice place even for us non-city lovers. A city kid might feel confined at Furman as it's not super easy to get to city life. My rural loving kid thought this was the best campus he's been to after having visited a few in cities and a couple other suburban or near cities. Sports are here, but certainly weren't over emphasized - something my non sports loving guy appreciated for a change.

 

Into music? This seems to be a great LAC. They have their own student symphony as well as oodles of music opportunities. They also offer a few music scholarships for non-music majors.

 

Into mock trials? Their trophy case had impressive trophies they had won.

 

Need aid? 85% of their students receive some form of aid either merit, need based, or both. Limited top scholarships are available (very competitive) as are lower scholarships (more common).

 

The dining hall food was excellent and had many choices as well as a nice view. There are also fast food places in the student center for those who choose them.

 

Pre-med wise... their Pre-Health adviser was awesome and seemed to really know her stuff (UNLIKE some others we've met). She was up on the new MCAT our students are going to have to take and Furman is proactive at advising future doctor wannabes about new classes that will serve them well. She also advised against accepting AP credits in pre-req courses as many med schools won't accept them.

 

Students can start research the summer after their Freshman year, and when they do that, research can then continue throughout following years. Later in sophomore year to throughout junior year students spend time in Greenville's teaching hospital shadowing, volunteering, and generally being certain they want to head into med school or other health area. Summers overseas are fairly common as can be semesters overseas. Medical missions trips are common over spring break.

 

Since this is a small school, typically just 20 - 30 students apply to med school with each graduating class. This allows the advisers to really know their students and to personalize advice for them. Furman will support any student who wants to apply, but is also realistic at letting them know their chances. With small numbers, stats can be misleading, but generally 70% or so make it in on average over several years. (National average is less than 50%.) Students who have made it in have gone on to both state schools (generally recommended due to their lower cost) and top of the top med schools like Harvard and Johns Hopkins. For students who want a small, personalized education and pre-med training, this place appears to be able to get one wherever they'd like to go if the effort and related academic success is there from the student.

 

From our perspective...

 

Pros: Small school where people will know you (profs as well as friends).

Gorgeous campus away from the main city.

Fairly well respected even if not top of the top.

Great chance to do well GPA-wise (important for med school).

Class format sounds ideal.

Friendly.

Potential for aid.

 

Cons: Not as many different research options as a large school.

Course time filled with more required courses.

Not as high of a prestige factor as some other schools - which can factor into med school opportunities.

Smaller school - thus - less likely opportunities for "great" aid (but it's possible).

Their initials. Around campus we saw FU on T-shirts and vehicles. People understand and even enjoy the double meaning. We opted not to get T-shirts to take back for the young kids of the people watching our farm. ;)

 

Overall? We definitely recommend checking out the place if the fit appears right for your student. Middle son is having to do some serious thinking as to whether he wants the research U's he's already looked at (plus possibly a couple more) or whether he wants the small school environment. Right now, he's decided to apply and see what financial differences there are as factors in his choice. He could definitely see himself here or at one of the others. We may have a very interesting spring if he has similar financial choices.

 

Feel free to ask questions if there are any. I'm a little distracted as I'm writing this, so could easily have forgotten some things. :tongue_smilie:

[AdamsFamily]

I went to Furman. I gradutated in 1994 with a B.S. in biology. I was on Furman's campus last October. While there, I rowed on crew, was a member of Delta Gamma, and participated in many community activities through CESC. I went to Furman because I wanted something comparable to Wake Forest, but not Wake Forest.

 

I personally was not a stellar FU grad, but that was not Furman's fault. I do have many friends that went on to Med school and Pharmacy schools. UGa added .5 to a friend's grade point average when she applied to their pharmacy school. UGa recognized the higher quality of education Furman had to offer and rewarded her for it. The head of research and development at Milliken (back in 1994) equated a bachelor's in science from Furman with a Master's in Science at most other schools.

 

Unfortunately, I don't know how well known Furman is of the East Coast. I have lived in Alaska and Nevada, and hardly anyone I have met has heard of Furman.

 

Furman broke away from the Southern Baptist Convention in 1993. When they did that, large amounts of money was donated to the school. The chapel, two classroom buildings, apartments, and student center have all been redone. The dorms and the rec center are from earlier than my days at the school. That is probably why they were avoided on your tour. They were in great shape, just not bright and shiny like the other buildings.

 

There is a great sense of community at the school. The music department is fantastic. When I attended the school, all students were required to attend a certain number of CLPs each year - musical performances, plays, and lectures. The public is welcome to attend those as well. I really wished I still lived near Furman; I would still take advantage of those opportunities.

[southcarolinamom]

We live in Greenville! Some people call Furman the "Harvard of South Carolina." It's a very classy school. I've attended seminars and a wedding on campus, and my dd helped with a summer performance earlier this month at the Furman Playhouse.

 

Folks are drawn to this city for its high standard of living and family-friendly activities, especially the downtown area. I'm glad you had a positive experience in our fair city :D We were recently ranked 5th out of 25 of America's most fun, affordable cities:

 

http://images.businessweek.com/slideshows/20110809/america-s-most-fun-affordable-cities/slides/22

[lmrich]

I am another Furman Grad 1992. I am passionate about how much I loved my time at Furman. I loved that my classes were small. That was the number 1 reason I went there. The professors really know your name. They care about you and want you to be great. I met my dh there. I met so many of my best friends there. My dh was a math major and went to Georgia Tech for his master's degree in engineering earning a 4.0 in electrical engineering. I was an education major. I had several friends go on to medical degrees - all got into medical school and are practicing now (peds, ob, general, and sports med.) more did pharmacy school, several more went on to get masters and other advanced degrees. It is a great school. The beauty of the campus is just a reflection of the school itself.

[creekland]

Thanks for relating experiences! I'm glad to hear alumni and fellow city dwellers like the place. That is rather important to us. One thing I missed about Furman is not getting to speak to a current student. Granted, we're visiting in the summer, but other colleges had us speak to students who were there over the summer. Our tour guide had graduated from there, so I suppose that counts somewhat. I find myself liking to ask all the "confirmation" questions of students - are the classes small? Are they really discussion based? How is dorm life? Weekend life? That sort of thing.

 

Furman is not well known in our stretch of PA. Others from PA go there, but in our area a school either needs to be within 2 hours or have a great sports team to be known. I've encouraged my guys to look farther from home both to experience a different segment of life and for the potential for better aid due to geographical diversity. Therefore, oldest is at a college not known in our area too, but he loves it there (Covenant College in GA). Since middle son has pretty much axed the only in-state school he looked at (Pitt), it's highly likely he'll head out of state. The question remains... where? ;)

 

So far, I've liked the schools he's had us look at. I believe he found Furman off a combination of PSAT mailing list and college confidential threads. Since financial aid is a necessity in our college decision, most of the schools he's looking at are below his stats, but he still wants a "good, respected" school, therefore "high" but not "super high" except for one (originally he had 4 of these, but axed the other three without visits).

 

We're still debating whether to check out the other two schools he might be interested in - Case Western and University of Rochester. Since he likes his southern and midwest options, he's not sure he wants cold and northern. One of his friends loved his visit to Case... but that friend isn't looking to go far from home. Case is far in that friend's opinion (about 5 - 6 hours).

[Kareni]

creekland,

 

Thanks for such a comprehensive review. It's great to get your impressions of colleges that heretofore have just been names.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[creekland]

It's great to get your impressions of colleges that heretofore have just been names.

 

Regards,

Kareni

 

I'm enjoying these visits too. These colleges were just names to me as well. It's fun filling in some of the details. I actually think I'd have a blast seeing a lot more schools, but alas, we have school starting on Tuesday.

[MyThreeSons]

A very sweet young lady who was the very first student I met when I was starting to teach at our homeschool co-op is at Furman. She is in her third year there and loves it. Her family lives in Greenville, but she is on campus.

 

I was on campus last week to see a little theater production several of our current co-op students produced. It is a beautiful campus!

[memphispeg]

Creekland and Furman alumni -

Dd is highly secular - humanist. Would she feel out of place at Furman? We have heard great things about it in the past. She would not feel comfortable in a conservative christian environment. I like the one-on-one attention possibilities. Dd needs to be encouraged to get her ideas out there (nifty/quirky ideas) but needs a core-curriculum structure so she can explore different subjects.

We cannot tour colleges. $$ woes, so your write-ups are helping us big time. We toured many with our older dd so, we know where this dd does NOT want to go!!!! Also, different needs, etc. Thanks again.

-Peg

[creekland]

Creekland and Furman alumni -

Dd is highly secular - humanist. Would she feel out of place at Furman? We have heard great things about it in the past. She would not feel comfortable in a conservative christian environment. I like the one-on-one attention possibilities. Dd needs to be encouraged to get her ideas out there (nifty/quirky ideas) but needs a core-curriculum structure so she can explore different subjects.

We cannot tour colleges. $$ woes, so your write-ups are helping us big time. We toured many with our older dd so, we know where this dd does NOT want to go!!!! Also, different needs, etc. Thanks again.

-Peg

 

 

Honestly, this is a question best asked of a student - either current or recent. I can tell you our tour guide told us roughly one third of students were involved in a "religious group" (these ranged widely). That would mean two thirds aren't... so... my guess would be that she would feel fine, but again, someone there would know the "vibe" better IMO.

 

There was nothing on our tour that would lead me to believe Furman was a religious college, or anti-religious.

 

I understand totally about the $$ woes. We may not get to visit more we really want to visit based on the current economy. At this point hubby has two clients who owe him major $$ we expected to have in - and we may not ever get the money (bankruptcy on their part). In a way, I'm glad we visited the colleges not knowing about this as it means we got to see them. If we had known, it would have been helpful to save the trip money for expenses this month which we thought would be covered! (Sigh) Life. It always keeps one guessing...

[creekland]

Financial update:

 

Since I updated the University of Rochester site once we'd received our financial package I thought I'd do the same for Furman as well.

 

Furman expects kiddo to have the same 7K in federal loans that Rochester does, AND expects us (parents) to come up with an additional 32+K of other payments and/or parental loans. This is with the same EFC (low - 4 digits). They only gave my guy a small amount in grants.

 

Based upon a couple of other posters on college confidential, this seems to be NOT unusual for this year - making me wonder about the financial aspect of the school. Collegeboard says that roughly 1/3rd of students who have demonstrated need get their need met with the average met at 75%. We're below average. :tongue_smilie: Furman is a CSS Profile school, but so is UR.

 

Needless to say, kiddo won't have to struggle with the decision between smaller classes (Furman) and ultimate research (his research U options) like I thought he was going to have to! Since I think a research U fits him better, I'm kind of secretly pleased, but Furman was a very likeable school, so it's a mixed feeling and it would have been his choice had finances not made the choice for us.

 

However, even if we had unlimited wealth, I wouldn't pay what they are asking us to pay considering the options (ALL of his other choices are better financially - including those we haven't received final packages from - current merit aid makes them more affordable).

 

So, to anyone reading in the future... yes, consider Furman if you think it's a good fit. Finances might happen, but certainly don't count on them, even with high stats going in.

 

And to anyone reading in general - note that it is a good thing to apply to a handful of colleges to compare financial packages. They can differ wildly! ;) Don't put your eggs in one basket if finances matter.

[memphispeg]

Thanks so much. I've heard great things about Furman but, a friend complained of "too many rich kids". That can be a factor in deciding on a college as well. Class distinctions can take their toll on kids who do not have enough money to "succeed" socially at some schools.

We are being similarly challenged by some of dd's schools. We have received requests for more financial information from some that, at first blush, required the FAFSA alone. This request accompanied financial award letters (that implied massive parental loans). We are hoping that the awards are adjusted once we've given more info.

Sooooo, future readers, don't put all your financial files away until.....

[Gwen in VA]

Creekland,

 

Thanks for the review. Furman popped up in our search because of its church music program, so I enjoyed reading your opinion of it.

 

I have been told that Furman has very good merit aid. (The one person we know there is on a full-tuition merit scholarship). I take it that was not your experience?

[creekland]

Creekland,

 

Thanks for the review. Furman popped up in our search because of its church music program, so I enjoyed reading your opinion of it.

 

I have been told that Furman has very good merit aid. (The one person we know there is on a full-tuition merit scholarship). I take it that was not your experience?

 

We were attracted to it for the same rumor and it stayed on the list because my guy loved his visit there.

 

From what we've personally seen and what I'm reading on their college confidential thread - it doesn't seem to be the case this year (or else those getting the decent offers aren't posting).

 

This is what has me wondering about their finances. I'm guessing they're saving their need-based aid for those who aren't super needy - picking their 1/3rd with total need met from those who didn't have much need. Merit aid? I haven't seen any sort of trend since few are reporting. Those who have reported have said they didn't get any (or got a little - my guy got a little).

[Gwen in VA]

Fiddlestick! I was hoping Furman would be a great "good school -- good merit aid" combination.....

 

Oh well -- the search for the elusive "perfect school" continues. :tongue_smilie:

 

Unfortunately good organ / church music programs seem to be mostly be in the mid-west -- which is nice for those families from the Texas-Minnesota belt but not great for those of us on the coast.

[creekland]

Fiddlestick! I was hoping Furman would be a great "good school -- good merit aid" combination.....

 

Oh well -- the search for the elusive "perfect school" continues. :tongue_smilie:

 

Unfortunately good organ / church music programs seem to be mostly be in the mid-west -- which is nice for those families from the Texas-Minnesota belt but not great for those of us on the coast.

 

Personally, I'd still keep it on your short list to try. You never know what will happen. I just wouldn't count on it until/unless it happens, but it's worth trying. The school is still a good one IMO and someone gets the merit aid.

[readwithem]

Since this is a small school, typically just 20 - 30 students apply to med school with each graduating class. This allows the advisers to really know their students and to personalize advice for them.

 

my dh graduated from Furman many moons ago, and his best college friend went on to med school at Honiman in Philadelphia.

 

His best friend loved having small classes for his pre-med courses.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I'd be curious about how it is for students who are not involved in the Greek organizations. Is it a situation of cool if you are and cool if you aren't or is there a tiered status where non-Greek students are looked down on?

[creekland]

I'd be curious about how it is for students who are not involved in the Greek organizations. Is it a situation of cool if you are and cool if you aren't or is there a tiered status where non-Greek students are looked down on?

 

We didn't check into that much as my guy has no intention of going Greek no matter where he goes (esp due to being pre-med), but I do recall the tour guide saying it didn't matter. Personally, I'd ask a student that question on a visit to be more confident in the answer.

[creekland]

Thought I should add this note. I got sent a link to Furman's own magazine where they talk a little bit about changing their overall plan for admitting students. They ARE going for a wealthier demographic. Here's a portion of what I read:

 

"FLUSH WITH THE SUCCESS of enrolling a record 824

first-year students (freshmen and transfers) and significantly lowering

the amount of financial aid awarded to the freshman class, Furman’s

admission and financial aid offices are focusing their energy on

boosting applications.

“By a lot of objective measures this was an extraordinary year,â€

says Brad Pochard, associate vice president for admission. “The

academic profile of the freshman class is strong, and we were able

to enroll a record number even as we deliberately lowered our

discount rate†— which is the percentage of tuition revenue

awarded as institutional financial aid."

 

Overall, when they went test optional, they also chose to lower financial aid. Therefore, they are aiming for less emphasis on higher stat kids and more on those who can afford (or mostly afford) the school.

 

Honestly, if I had known this ahead of time, we wouldn't have even visited. Schools catering to the wealthy demographic (alone) wouldn't interest me even before we got hit by the economic downturn. I simply prefer schools who are need-blind (or close to it) and willing to work with students regardless of family financial background.

 

If one wants to read the whole article, it's here (on page 10):

 

http://www2.furman.edu/sites/fumag/Documents/FM11fall.pdf

 

Everything else they talk about is true. My son loved his visit and his alumni interview. They were concerned more about other things he had done rather than his stats. They've sent him a brochure already about the potential for a paid summer trip to China or Japan - so their money is being spent on other things. I just didn't realize that financially we were never even in the running or we wouldn't have bothered.

 

So, to anyone looking, be sure you can afford this school (or close to it) or save yourself the time.