Does a grammar program like "Writing Road to Grammar" exist?

[EmilyGF]

I have been musing about grammar programs. I don't want any sentence correcting, at least in the early years, because we see enough bad examples as it is.

 

How about something like WRTR, where the student makes a notebook, writes daily sentences in it, and then goes through the rules of grammar in those sentences. The student would also complete a series of charts of rules in the back which would be used in marking up sentences. As rules become ingrained, they would no longer be marked.

 

Does something like this exist? I ask because verbal learning is not my son's strong suit and FLL seems like a flop and discouragement for him. In one ear, out the other. He also can't memorize words out of lots of non-verbal context, so memorizing "noun" is an exercise in futility. I think if we made a notebook, though, that he could learn it easily.

 

Thanks,

Emily

[Ellie]

You can do grammar with the Spalding Method. It's described in the manual (WRTR is the manual; Spalding is the method).

 

There's also Grammar Works. I can't recommend Reading Works (supposed to help you do Spalding, but Spalding doesn't need anything except its own manual), but Grammar Works isn't bad. (I didn't use it; I bought it to review it.)

[MerryAtHope]

How old is he? I ask because you mentioned FLL--if he's still fairly young, you may just want to focus on other LA topics for a year or two and then try grammar again.

[EmilyGF]

He's just 6.5 but he has a hard time with the mechanics of language. He's pretty sharp in general, just doesn't seem to pick up general rules of usage on his own. I figured that since direct instruction in math helps kids who find math hard, direct instruction in English might help him. :-)

 

I don't really need things like "this is a noun", more things like "In English, we use 'I' to refer to ourselves." Or, "In English, we change the order of the pronoun and the verb when we make a sentence." Of course, I tell him those things when we're speaking and it gets out of control, but I'd rather do it within a non-confrontational setting, like a lesson.

 

He was a late talker, saw a speech therapist for a few years, and may have some sort of auditory-processing/word retrieval difficulty. Some adults have praised his complex phrasing, but I know most of it is because he can't find a simple word.

 

Emily

[Hunter]

I'm trying to do the same thing for comp and grammar.

 

There is some info in the WRTR manual, and I have the 2nd grade Spalding TM, and the 1st volume for Riggs. CW Aesop filled in some holes. Teaching the Trivium has a couple pages on compiling an English notebook. The Core mentions a bit. And today I found this free e-book that has rules and definitions in bold for everything the WRTR and Spalding TM mentioned.

 

Essentials in English by Henry Carr Pearson

http://books.google.com/books?id=_dYOAQAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

I think I have everything I need to figure out how to do this, but it's not spoon fed. Hey, it's a challenge :-)

 

I'm also trying to do this for reading/literature. I like Figuratively Speaking, some books written about Northrop Frye's works, and Through the Eyes of a Child.

[Veritaserum]

Phonics Road (based on Spalding) does this starting in level 2 (but you'll want him to go through level 1 first).

[BriannaG]

Here is an example and discussion of how this mom used Ruth Heller's books to create Lively Language Lessons. I fell in love with the idea to use with my kids when they're older as a summer project since we school year around. I printed everything off just in case the blog disappears!

 

Scroll down past the noun studies that are at the top and you'll see the introduction post. It would be simple enough to add written rules with examples spelled out like copy work to these with more examples...you can definitely play around with it...since now that I'm thinking some kids wouldn't be into the illustrating.

 

http://ebeth.typepad.com/serendipity/lively_language_lessons/

[boscopup]

My 4 year old is a bit like your son - late talker, speech therapy, still doing "interesting" word order. His speech therapist had me working on the question word order by repeating his question the correct way, then answering immediately. That has helped a lot. Sometimes my own brain doesn't process the fact that the sentence is out of order because I've gotten so used to it though. :tongue_smilie:

 

I think if you're wanting grammar marking and such, you'll need to go to a 3rd grade grammar program. That's where those things are usually introduced (sentence parsing to get ready for diagramming). In fact, FLL3 would probably be a good choice when he's ready for it (I wouldn't recommend it for now though). It has a student workbook with the sentences to look at, and then you mark them up or diagram them. MCT's 4-level analysis also involves visual marking, but again, that's a 3rd grade program. I can't think of anything first grade that does much visually like that.

 

You could point things out in his copywork, and have him mark where the nouns and verbs are, things like that. There are commonly used sentence parsing notations such as underlining a noun once, underlining a verb twice. Choose copywork specifically to help you work on a particular word order issue he's having.

[Hunter]

Emily, are you wanting to concentrate on marking, or the implicitness of WRTR applied to grammar, or both? It is the implicitness and the notebooking that are my goals.

 

Brianna, WOW! Thanks! :-) That link is very helpful to me right now.

[BriannaG]

Yeah, it is a cool way to cover grammar and I enjoy the Ruth Heller books. It will be fun when we get to it in a couple of years:)

[EmilyGF]

Thanks for the suggestions! I'm getting the Grammar Works book for now and will look into Kilgallon later. The Elizabeth Foss grammar is beautiful - I love all her website but had never followed that link! Thanks everyone!

 

Emily

[PeterPan]

Emily, did they diagnose him as having verbal apraxia? With that delayed speech, he could be. Sometimes regular speech therapists don't catch it and just use a more general diagnosis. There's a lexicon element to apraxia, and there are ways to work on that. Might be something to research. If he's slow/reticent to speak still, honestly I would go back and get him evaluated for speech again. You want the motor control, the lexical, the easy speech, you want it all to be there. You might need a different therapist to take the next step.

 

I take my ds2 (almost 3 now, whew!) to a speech therapist who does only apraxia. She uses PROMPT for the motor control, and then I think she brings in another speech therapist to work on the expressive language portion for kids who have extra problems beyond that. There are apps you can use on an ipod/ipad thing that work on this. It's a pretty common problem, then lexicon and word issue. That's why I'm saying I'd go back and look into more therapy.

 

I've been reading there's a 75% percent probability kids with verbal apraxia will also be dyslexic. It makes not only their spelling and reading, but just the overall way they process language, be different. With my dd I've used Shurley successfully. It has the simple, spiraled approach with gentle increases that worked for her. Like your ds, doing something in isolation wasn't going to cut it. Take a look at Shurley. If you want an especially gentle step, go from FLL 1/2 into Shurley 2.

Edited August 7, 2011 by OhElizabeth