Any other ideas re: needing fact work but being bored with content?

[LittleIzumi]

Dd is in Singapore 1B. We are finishing up addition/subtraction within 20. She really wants to move ON to multiplication/division (which she can already do conceptually). She is bored with doing addition & subtraction so much, draws all over the page, turns the numbers into characters in a story, doesn't focus, etc. She can do it easily and quickly when she focuses. However, she still is fuzzy on her FACTS--including some of the within-10 facts. She has to calculate it quickly in her head or on her fingers for some of the within-10, which she needs to have down pat for all this Singapore stuff :tongue_smilie:. It's hard to work on a making-10 strategy without them! She ends up counting on mentally at the speed of light instead. We do some fact practice apps like Rocket Math, Math Bingo, etc. However, it's going to take a little while before she has her facts/number bonds cold. She will go out of her mind with boredom if we don't keep moving up in the concepts, though. She also does NOT work well with manipulatives. I have two problems, tops, with manipulatives before she shuts down. Any other ideas? Is it okay to move on to multiplication and just keep working on the fact practice as we go? She is improving at it, just not nearly at the speed of her conceptual understanding/application.

[RahRah]

For what it's worth, DS just started 2B and only recently has his math facts for adding and subtracting *down cold*...I didn't see a good reason to slow him down and make him wait until he had them all memorized cold.

 

We continued along and worked on the math facts a couple of times a week, plus he played a variety of apps on the iPad/iPhone for more practice and we do a lot of mental math just for fun each day. With time the math facts are just there and known cold.

 

I'd say let her move on and just add in some math facts activities during the week so she's working on that too, but also moving along with the new concepts that will challenge her.

[Guest]

I'd say let her move on and just add in some math facts activities during the week so she's working on that too, but also moving along with the new concepts that will challenge her.

 

:iagree:

 

For what it's worth, dd could do basic algebraic equations with negative and positive values for x before she had memorized all her basic facts. She also memorized multiplication facts -- and thus could divide -- far earlier than addition and subtraction ones. She could find primes using that Greek sieve method (can't spell the guy's name for the life of me; need coffee), and even had "favorite" primes, before she could accurately count coins or even the candles on her birthday cake.

 

I think it's quite common for many gifted kids to go far ahead with abstract or sophisticated concepts while their concrete computational skills lag behind -- in dd's case, quite a bit behind. (She has since evened out.) Rather than have dd practice over and over, exclusively, basic computation, I chose to allow her to challenge herself conceptually while working on the computation bit by bit over several years.

[Crimson Wife]

I would move on to other topics but still continue facts practice. I had to do 3A/B out-of-order because DD needed more practice with her times tables. We did the chapters in 3A on multiplication & long division last.

 

DS really likes the Addition Adventures and Subtraction Secrets workbooks from Mindware for practicing addition & subtraction. They have fun "mazes" that can only be done if the student has solved the equations.

[LittleIzumi]

:iagree:

 

For what it's worth, dd could do basic algebraic equations with negative and positive values for x before she had memorized all her basic facts. She also memorized multiplication facts -- and thus could divide -- far earlier than addition and subtraction ones. She could find primes using that Greek sieve method (can't spell the guy's name for the life of me; need coffee), and even had "favorite" primes, before she could accurately count coins or even the candles on her birthday cake.

 

I think it's quite common for many gifted kids to go far ahead with abstract or sophisticated concepts while their concrete computational skills lag behind -- in dd's case, quite a bit behind. (She has since evened out.) Rather than have dd practice over and over, exclusively, basic computation, I chose to allow her to challenge herself conceptually while working on the computation bit by bit over several years.

 

Yeah, she's doing those, too.

 

 

Thanks, guys! This asynchronous stuff is a head trip sometimes :lol:. I realized that she can also go through the IP for this book once she has her facts down and keep working on the making-10 that way if she really needs it. Onwards and upwards!! :D

[kiana]

If it's possible I'd prefer to have a 'math facts work', probably about 5 minutes a day, and a 'math conceptual work' which is more of the instruction.

 

I think of it as similar to allowing a young advanced child to work on age-appropriate penmanship while dictating or typing longer compositions.

 

Worked for me :D

[Embassy]

I keep plugging along with the current math program and add in harder math as a supplement. I follow up our current math program with easier math fact practice and just require my kids to do all the math facts work in the text/workbook.

Edited August 3, 2011 by Wehomeschool

[Dana]

I'd move on.

 

One thing I'm doing with my son for really solidifying math facts is keeping a graph of his times. I've got a set of flashcards (0-12) of the multiplication tables. Once a week I time him on the flashcards and then he records his time on a graph. So it's giving some practice with data collection and line graphs too :) May help with motivation too.

[Greenmama2]

It sounds like our DD's are in similar places. DD has recently moved on to feeling comfortable with on paper multiplication after working with it conceptually by herself for a while (as in her asking what is y times z in the car and us providing the answer, nothing more). She has by no means memorized addition facts, she is getting there slowly. We play Miquon/family math style games for that and let her ccontrol the pace of the content. Personally I'd prefer to teach all four operations on the one day with stories in the Waldorf fashion, but my child has other ideas. *shrug*

[Staceyshoe]

I wouldn't hold her back, yet I would be hesitant to move forward at a quick pace (which I know your dd is apt to do!;)). By 2B, she will have a whole new set of facts that need to be learned. I've found that taking time off from curriculum to do math games or focus on more mathematical reasoning skills is helpful for us. It can be so tricky to find the right approach for our asynchronous kids because they are just wired differently!

[MissKNG]

 

I think it's quite common for many gifted kids to go far ahead with abstract or sophisticated concepts while their concrete computational skills lag behind -- in dd's case, quite a bit behind. .

 

We were in the same place as you this past spring, LittleIzumi, and I just moved my big girl on because of the above. She understood how to get the answers but if it took her a couple extra seconds because she needed some math fact help, that was fine. I knew the math facts will come with time.

[LittleIzumi]

Summarizing the post:

She's at the stage where she doesn't need the manipulatives all the time, but she hasn't moved away from them and is using the 'count on' strategy rather than 'make-a-ten'. 'Make-a-ten' is the concept she needs to work on and master in order to progress to mastery in addition.

 

There are some free games here:

 

www dot k-5mathteachingresources dot com/addition-and-subtraction-activities dot html

 

and playing addition war is also excellent practice - but have her use 'make-a-ten' not 'count up'.

 

You could move on to multiplication, but it will be headbanging if she is not proficient at all of the mental math strategies from add/subtract (there are more than make-a-ten). I'd suggest Ed Zaccaro's Primaray Grade Challenge Math, and various math and strategy games (tons of threads on these) and Problem of the Day as a supplement while she is playing games to get 'make-a-ten' and so forth learned.

 

Almost. She does not used manipulatives at ALL unless forced. Then she can only focus for maybe 2 problems. Manipulatives are all art pieces to her, not math tools. :001_huh: She will sometimes use the pictures in the workbook, but 90-95% of the time she does it in her head. She has to calculate it in her head though, counting on mentally or using her fingers very quickly under her breath. She did "get" making ten for the first time last night, and can explain that to me & do it in her head now, but we'll practice that for a while on the side as well. She just has to actually quickly check on her fingers that 5-2=3 when adding 8+5 with making ten, for instance. With larger numbers like 25+9 she used to count on but now that she "gets" making ten, we'll apply that. We did some mental multiplication yesterday, too. I do keep hearing that I need to buy PCM, though :lol:. Thanks for the game link!

Edited August 4, 2011 by LittleIzumi

[MaMa2005]

We have just kept on moving. For computer time, DS plays facts games in many different varieties. He would be bored silly if I had stopped and made him have all his +,-,x and / facts down cold.

[LittleIzumi]

Fingers count as manipulatives when one assesses the stage of addition knowledge that the child has currently mastered and is using independently. :) She's in Stage C (detailed in link provided in prior post) and will get to D and then E with further instruction and practice.

 

Ah, got it. (Didn't have time to read before VT this morning.) She uses her fingers maybe 20% of the time.

[poetic license]

as someone whose math development was crippled by counting up (ok maybe slight exaggeration ;) ) I would definitely stress the method of making groups rather than counting up, even if you do move on now. It's just so ineffective to count up as opposed to grouping--you are hampered when it comes to doing mental math with large numbers. Fingers are great because it's similar to the ALabacus where you look at groups of fives. The catch is to stress grouping the fingers rather than counting them.

[LittleIzumi]

as someone whose math development was crippled by counting up (ok maybe slight exaggeration ;) ) I would definitely stress the method of making groups rather than counting up, even if you do move on now. It's just so ineffective to count up as opposed to grouping--you are hampered when it comes to doing mental math with large numbers. Fingers are great because it's similar to the ALabacus where you look at groups of fives. The catch is to stress grouping the fingers rather than counting them.

 

Yeah, they taught the counting on method in Singapore & then like 2 lessons later switched to making 10. :confused: I don't know why they bothered with the counting on. It did make her a lot faster for about two weeks, but now we're moving on already, lol.