What about holding back a HS student in 4th grade?

[Wendy in ME]

A few of you probably read about my math problems with my ds 9 (4th grade) last week. As I have said before, he is just so young and immature. It was my first instinct to start him a year late because of his June birthday but for whatever reason, I did not. He is ds #2 and wanted to start school so badly. The boys were in a private school at the point. K and 1st were ok because they are mostly fun and games anyway. 2nd was tough for him and he left the school year way behind in math, barely legible hand writing. He is now in his 2nd year of HS and is doing much better but definitely not 4th grade level work. His reading level is probably ahead but everything else is behind. I feel like I really need to slow down with this child and lower my expectations so that we can really just concentrate on the basics. To me, 5th grade is when you really need to step things up a bit and I know he will not be up to that next year. I really feel like I need an extra year with him. Has anyone ever done this? I don't think it would benefit him to just keep going forward if he is not ready. I don't want to lower my standards for 5th grade just to call him 5th grade. Will he just catch up as he matures and still be ready to finish HS on time or should we add an extra year? We both get so frustrated. :confused:

[MOCA]

I hear your dilemma. Do you need a grade for legal purposes?

 

If not, I would consider in which situations a grade level might affect your son---classes, Sunday School, etc. and decide if the stigma of being held back in those situations is less hurtful than the stigma of going on socially. Does he fit in with his peers on a social level in those environments or not? You may find it worth googling the issues related to retention...if it makes a difference academically, what the costs are, etc.

 

Regarding homeschool, you can just teach him on the appropriate level for each subject...some may be below and others above his grade level. If you want to think of it another way from a more dramatic situation, we parents of special needs kids often keep moving our kids up each year, as they also do in schools, but make the curriculum individualized for their particular needs.

 

HTH's...it is difficult to figure all of this out, isn't it? :

[Wendy in ME]

I am more concerned with the effects of teaching to his level then having him finish 12th grade and not have accomplished what he should have. I really think that the root of his academic problems is more due to immaturity and a completely wasted 2nd grade year. So I guess my question is do I move him up and hope that with maturity he will catch up or slow down, relax, and enjoy having more time with him. Socially, I don't think it would pose a problem. He is not involved in things that have grade designations at this point in his life. He plays football but that is more age based than grade based.

[Tarheel Heather]

I did this last spring with my 4th grade ds. I wanted to make sure there were not any gaps. It wasn't any fault of his, I was working full-time and his school day was not as complete as it needed to be. He is finishing up now and nearly done. But one of the perks of homeschooling is that you can cater to his level. He may excel in some things, lag behind in others.

 

HTH,

Heather

[MOCA]

I agree and would definitely teach him to his level so that he can truly learn as you desire. Can you keep him in the same grade level and just teach to where he is academcially? You could always change his grade level at a different juncture, if it isn't a legal issue with your state law, and have him do an extra year between junior high and high school, if his maturity/readiness didn't change. Also, I know some parents on these boards have discussed doing a grade 13 with their children.

 

From my small perspective, I wonder if putting him back now would be difficult for him in terms of self-esteem when you could actually put in him the next grade and still just teach him on the academic level where is needs to learn. For example, he may be in 3rd grade math, 4th grade reading, 5th grade science, etc but his grade level would be called 5th. If he caught up by 12th grade, great, but if not, you could add an extra year there or perhaps after junior high when you can get a better feel for maturity.

 

I totally agree that having a child learn everything they need before going on to a job or college is important but I think that knowing how quickly it will happen when they are in 4th grade is difficult. If it helps, I do have a 4th grader and a high schooler and a couple others in-between.

[Lori D.]

To me, 5th grade is when you really need to step things up a bit and I know he will not be up to that next year. I really feel like I need an extra year with him. Has anyone ever done this? I don't think it would benefit him to just keep going forward if he is not ready. I don't want to lower my standards for 5th grade just to call him 5th grade.

 

 

Our circumstances were a little different (we held our older son back in private school kindergarten due to emotional immaturity and small physical size), but we have never regretted it. It allowed him to relax and enjoy learning -- and sometimes even be a leader! -- rather than always stressing and always struggling to "just barely keep up".

 

Isn't that one of the great benefits of homeschooling -- being able to fine tune each school subject to be just at the level each student needs? : )

 

My questions:

- Is it a really big a deal to your son what grade you call your homeschooling?

When we held our son back it was actually a *relief* to him -- he didn't care what the grade was called. (Ironically, it was dh and I who cared more -- 2 weeks into ds being at the grade level he needed to be and he was so much happier, I realized how silly it was for dh and I to have thought it was "some failure" on our part! It was all about having the wisdom to put our son where he *needed* to be so he could succeed.) : )

 

If it is a big deal to your son, definitely downplay the idea of "holding back". (It's really more of a "course correction" than "holding back", anyways!) Rather, emphasize the idea of having more time to pursue a personal interest of his -- this would give him the time to take those karate classes, write that dragon story, do a unit study on horses, learn how to do animation with a video camera and Lego mini-figures, or... (fill in the blank with whatever activity he'd LIKE to do, and will now have TIME to do, because he won't have to work on school into the evenings or the lessons take as long during the day). I bet within a month he won't even think about it again.

 

- Or does this cause complications with sports,Sunday school or other grade-related activities you do?

A lot of these activities are more related to age than grade, so it may not be that big of a deal.

 

- Worried how he'll take take it emotionally?

From seeing various friends/family members hold back children at different grade levels, it's definitely a LOT easier on the child to do it sooner rather than later -- it can be really hard on them emotionally to try and add an extra year by the time the child reaches the middle school grades. Also, if he's young, he may end up physically maturing later than all the other boys, which can cause a LOT of emotional stress in those jr/sr high years, whether he's in public/private/home school.

 

 

Finally, realize this isn't necessarily a "permanent" decision. Your son may suddenly spurt forward in a few years academically/phyiscally/emotionally, and you can always do another course correction at that time -- perhaps he'll be excelling so fast, he'll be a 3-year high school grad. And if not, then you'll have had an extra year to enjoy your son, and instill training and encouragement into adulthood for him.

 

BEST of luck in making your decision. Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Carol in Cal.]

I would call it 'lengthening fourth grade.' Or I would call it 'giving him an extra year.'

 

It sounds like semantics rather than reality, but really, it's better to put a positive slant on something like this.

 

Lots of homeschoolers teach their kids at different levels. Just think how many of us use Rod and Staff 1 year behind, for example. So what? It's a journey, not an obstacle course.

 

Just one more little thing--Waldorf teachers expect a maturity breakthrough at about age 9 1/2. I saw this with my DD. It was quite dramatic, as though she went through a door that neither of us even knew was there.

 

Before that, she never checked her work. She was very independent most of the time, but it was unimaginable that she could go away to a sleepover camp or even for more than one night away from us with dear family friends. Even that one night would have been difficult, because she would have missed us at bedtime so much. Her idea of a dream vacation was if we camped in a big tent with another family that included one of her best friends.

 

Suddenly at 9 1/2 she just changed completely. She had no problem imagining going away for a few days (not that we let her, but still...). She only vaguely remembered that at one point this would have bothered her, but couldn't quite remember why. She started to write quite legibly. She became much more accurate in copywork and in copying math problems and answers between books and answer sheets. I had been getting pretty concerned about her, and this was very startling and welcome.

 

So maybe you are on the verge of that. It seems as if those growth spurts occur about the time I have just about given up, pretty consistently. BTW, DD's birthday is in early July, and she is too mature to be a fifth grader and not quite at the level of a sixth grader. By homeschooling her I can have her work at the 5 1/2 grade level that truly suits her. And sometimes I call her a 5th grader and sometimes a 6th grader. I think that that is one of the bennies of homeschooling.

[nutmeg]

To me, 5th grade is when you really need to step things up a bit .... I don't want to lower my standards for 5th grade just to call him 5th grade....

 

Why such a big concern over doing a particular level of work at a particular age? That is the very thing we, in this house, aim to avoid by homeschooling.

[Lori D.]

maturity breakthrough at about age 9 1/2... as though she went through a door that neither of us even knew was there... Before that, she never checked her work... She started to write quite legibly. She became much more accurate in copywork and in copying math problems and answers between books and answer sheets.

 

 

STILL waiting for that door to open here for our 14yo and almost 16yo boys!! (LOL) Yes, at about age 12-13 our struggling speller started to find spelling was "clicking" (somewhat)... Doubtfully we're going to see boys care about their handwriting or checking their own work anytime soon; if they did -- gasp -- I'd be checking their foreheads for fever, or looking for robot innards to see if someone had swapped them for "Stepford" sons. (LOL!)

 

Totally agree, though Carol. Sometimes it just takes patience to allow their brains and bodies to mature. : ) Warmly, Lori D.

[MOCA]

Just to clarify, I should have said, "Can you move him on to 5th grade?" vs. "Can you just keep him in the same level". I was thinking that you could keep him in the same level as he normally would be and just teach to where he truly was academically.

[Wendy in ME]

Ultimately they have to make to a particular level before entering college and taking exams. I just want to make sure that he makes it to that point and am trying to decide if it will take an extra year to accomplish this. I am also wondering if it is better to slow down and add the extra time now or add an extra year at the end before college. Grade level does matter when you are talking about subjects that build on each other such as math. In order to meet college admission requirements, he has to be in Algebra by 9th grade etc.

[MOCA]

Perhaps the junior high years would be a time to figure out if he has caught up or if you would like to add an extra year..."high school prep" or such. In our home, there actually is no reference to grade levels, unless someone who thinks of "grade" vs. "age" asks my kids their grade level. For college, you may wish to have 4 years of math. If you are thinking of being through xxxx math class by the time he graduates? If this is more of the goal, you might get additional insight by inquiring on the high school board to see how those moms have handled kids who are behind on math and getting them through high school. They also have the benefit of hindsight.

 

However, it could really be that in your heart/gut, you feel most at peace with a certain direction, in which case you should go with it. We can all address specifics of your situation but your gut about what to do is based on the whole knowledge of your particular son, your educational goals, etc.

 

I wish you well...your son is so fortunate to have a mother weighing these decisions so thoughtfully.

[Wendy in ME]

I guess the reason I am struggling with this so much is because I didn't "go with my gut" to begin with. My gut told me when is was barely 5 that he was not ready to go to school but I was not secure enough in my educational judgement to go against the grain. I have felt uneasy about this ever since and now it seems to really show up in his work. He is very bright but just can't make connections, take responsibility for his work, he's falling behind in math and his printing has just become legible this year. His spelling is horrible and he just doesn't seem to even notice mistakes that don't even make sense. I really think this is mostly a result of immaturity. I guess the moral of the story is to go with your first instinct and that we as parents know what's best for our children. He really seems like a third grader to me and if I had just gone with my first thought, everything would be much simpler.:confused:

[Lux Et Veritas Academy]

Go where you have too- I have subjects we are far ahead in and 1 subject we are probably 2 years behind in. That is the beauty of homeschool- one can learn at his own pace!;)

[Ellie]

yes, he will catch up. No, I would *NOT* "hold him back." Yes, I would teach him at his level, but expect him to catch up. No, *I* don't consider a June birthday to be "late." I would absolutely refer to him as being "in 5th grade" whenever you have to put a grade level-label on him, but I would of course teach him at his level.

[kfrench]

I ended up holding my dd in 3rd because she just wasn't ready for 4th grade work. With her she has always struggled with each concept and with reading so she really was still doing 3rd grade work and still very challenged by it. I think it is important that they cement all the math and reading skills in Elementary or everything beyond is going to be a struggle. If the work is too hard and will make your child miserable. My dd is so happy she is doing 3rd again because 4th work was way to hard and she was stressing out. Most of her friends were either younger or older so it didn't really matter to her as long as her little sister doesn't catch up she'll be ok her little sister is now a year behind her in school but i don't think that will happen but it does make it easier to combine subjects.

 

Kris