Manipulative for fumble fingers

[Critterfixer]

I am struggling with my son's math lately. This is for my ds7 hFA who has some very impressive visual-spacial gifts and builds things with his hands all the time. Only one big problem, here. He can't handle just about everything I've used for manipulatives for his math.

He NEEDS to work through things with objects. He just can't manage with the things I have. We tried legos and linking cubes. Couldn't get them together comfortably enough, and if they are the same color he is very prone to miscount them. We've tried crayons. He miscounts them because he tends to roll two and count one. Popsicle sticks-same problem, and picking them up from the table is an issue for both of us. Incidentally, I suffer from many of the same manual dexterity things that he does, so I understand his frustration. But we have to find something that works, and soon. He is so afraid of making a mistake with the crayons, or whatnot, that he cries if I can't sit right with him all the time to make sure he doesn't make a simple mistake with them!:crying: Poor kid, he's made enough of them and he's sick of being wrong on something so simple.

 

Things that he does better with include the abacus, and things that he doesn't have to snap together or things that would roll too easily if he bumps one. I'm thinking about smooth tumbled stones, but if anyone has suggestions for manipulatives to use with children with less than great motor coordination I'd love to hear them.

[wapiti]

Cuisenaire Rods, the wood ones? for example these, which I happened to order yesterday (for unrelated reasons). They are smooth blocks. I'm getting some Miquon curriculum stuff to go with them. I don't know enough about them to say how you use them for a 7 y.o., but you could ask over on the curriculum board. See, e.g., this thread

 

Have you tried a visual curriculum that doesn't require manipulatives? (e.g., MM or Singapore) Or does he absolutely need the manipulatives, except that his motor skills can't handle them?

[Critterfixer]

Have you tried a visual curriculum that doesn't require manipulatives? (e.g., MM or Singapore) Or does he absolutely need the manipulatives, except that his motor skills can't handle them?

 

I think he does need them. It's a funny thing with his motor skills, because he does enjoy putting things together and building things. Always has. But he does not build with things that stick together like Lego blocks. He has used things like Tinkertoys to build with, but even that takes him time, and of course, once he's put it together he doesn't want it taken apart. Too hard to get it back together the way he wants it. His motor skill development is hard to fathom, because he's actually a stronger more coordinated and faster writer than his non-autistic twin sibling. Go figure. It's almost as if his fine motor skills are better than his gross motor skills. He could line up the connections for a linking cube, but pushing it together would be where the thing would come apart on him, causing him to really get upset. (I have the same problem--hate the things.)

 

We are using Math Mammoth this year, but we used Saxon last year for first grade. He ended up memorizing a little too well, and blew through Saxon on his memory alone. So MM is causing him to flail helplessly for a while until he bends his mind around it.

 

I'd have him draw his own pictures for visual representations only he has a tendency to draw and then miscount them when he goes through with his finger to check to see if he has drawn the right amount.:confused: It's like I need to make everything giant sized and spaced so far apart that it's not possible for his finger to touch more than one object at a time.

[LittleIzumi]

Instead of counting the rods/sticks/dice/cubes, can he pick them up and put them in a box or a different part of the table or on a paper each time? So he can only pick up and move one at a time, and count them that way? Or draw the images of each and cross them out as he counts? My dds cross out the pictures when they count for the first stage of math.

[Critterfixer]

Instead of counting the rods/sticks/dice/cubes, can he pick them up and put them in a box or a different part of the table or on a paper each time?

 

The table is kind of small with all of us grouped around it as we are for math. We've been using crayons or pencils (because we've been working with bundles) and they tend to roll a bit on the table. He takes them out of the crayon basket well enough, counts them out properly and all. Once they are on the table is when he will roll them and sometimes miscount. For instance if we are working with subtractions from ten, he would count out his ten crayons, put back three, for example, then count the remainders as eight and not seven. Inevitably he comes up with one more than there should be every time. That's why I was thinking about large pebbles. They don't roll, they stay put where you drop them. Still, I'm afraid he will continue to miscount if he can't drop them back, as you say, into some kind of container. I may be able to find a shallow bowl of some kind....I think I'll try this tomorrow and see if it helps.

 

Or draw the images of each and cross them out as he counts? My dds cross out the pictures when they count for the first stage of math.

 

As long as the images are not too close together he can handle this. Math Mammoth is giving us some real issues with this because of how close the dots are together! We had the same issues with Saxon word problems. They give you such an itty-bitty space to work in! Transfer it to a large piece of paper and he gets confused about where to put the answer afterward.

[wapiti]

I like the idea of crossing things out with a pencil once they're counted, or at least counting them with a pencil rather than a finger. (marker? that might be a mess; just thinking out loud :D). An out-there thought - some people with gross or fine motor issues also have ocular motor (eye movement) issues, which possibly could cause difficulties with counting things too close together on paper.

 

By the way, last spring Maria Miller sent out an update to grade 2 - I'm not sure what the differences are. You probably already have it.

 

For counting manipulatives, I might look for something on the bigger side - maybe the counting bears (here is a nice selection, for example http://www.lakeshorelearning.com/seo/ca%7CsearchResults~~p%7C2534374302106967~~f%7C/Assortments/Lakeshore/ShopByCategory/mathematics/viewall.jsp. I think my kids would have the bears or fruit talking to each other before long, LOL). The stones sound like a good idea.

Edited July 21, 2011 by wapiti

[Critterfixer]

By the way, last spring Maria Miller sent out an update to grade 2 - I'm not sure what the differences are. You probably already have it.

 

I bought MM2 a few weeks ago for the fall semester, so I hope the updates are there! I like the curriculum very much, but it really is creating a roller-coaster of reactions around here. Some of it both of the boys love, and a lot of it really challenges their thinkers. I'm already considering dropping them back to MM1 and doing it instead because I'm seeing some real gaps in their number sense after a few days of working through MM 2. I didn't really intend to spend anymore on Math, but; what the hey! Can't have too much review.

 

An out-there thought - some people with gross or fine motor issues also have ocular motor (eye movement) issues, which possibly could cause difficulties with counting things too close together on paper.

If I had a COVD close enough that I could trust to do a good job I'd take him. The trouble is that I know enough about one in my area to NEVER go; and two others that are within two hours are suspect from what I've heard. He may well have eye movement issues; I have suspected dyslexia in this child for some time now. At any rate, even after these things can be evaluated and diagnosed, I've still got to teach him math, so I have to find what will work in the interim. And I keep hoping to find someone in the area who is COVD that I can have a certain amount of trust in.

 

I do have bears that he could use, but when we did use them he miscounted them pretty easily because he would line them up (he lines everything up) and get confused about mid-line over which one he had touched last.

One thing that he was able to do last year that did seem to help him keep track of numbers and objects was when I would drop things into a metal container that made a lot of noise. He had no trouble counting with the sound to indicate the drop of an object. I've got a nice, heavy metal pie plate that may do the trick with the rocks---should make a good racket.

[peacefully]

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[Misty]

Sounds like RightStart Math would be a good fit for him. They use various manipulatives, but discourage counting by ones.. so he would learn to look at the manipulatives as groups of five or whatever. I LOVE RS Math. I use it with all my elementary aged kids. http://www.alabacus.com

[wapiti]

I do have bears that he could use, but when we did use them he miscounted them pretty easily because he would line them up (he lines everything up) and get confused about mid-line over which one he had touched last.

 

One thing that he was able to do last year that did seem to help him keep track of numbers and objects was when I would drop things into a metal container that made a lot of noise. He had no trouble counting with the sound to indicate the drop of an object. I've got a nice, heavy metal pie plate that may do the trick with the rocks---should make a good racket.

 

Someone else here may have more to say about the mid-line issue (has he had OT?). It means something, but I'm not sure precisely what (sorry, don't mean to go off-topic).

 

It's a shame you don't have an optometrist you can trust nearby. Maybe it would be worthwhile to rule it out by travelling a distance, but then what if you don't get to rule it out.... This thing about having no trouble counting when he can hear it - but he struggles to count them by looking at them - that's another clue, to what I'm not sure, but it would seem like vision. ETA: great job being creative in helping him!!!

 

If he's having trouble with counting, you might try giving him a ten-frame mat to help him order the units. An egg carton with two of the cups cut away also works well to help organize manipulatives when counting.

 

A twenty-frame mat or two 10-cup egg cartons also work really well when he starts to work with grouping and decomposing numbers beyond ten. Beyond that, place value mats help a lot.

 

What I like about using the ten-frame or egg cartons is that there is a specific visual pattern that reinforces the concept of the base-ten number system, and the child is learning to subitize (the ability to "see" the quantity without counting or adding, rather like what we do when looking at dice patterns) while counting.

 

This is a really interesting idea!! think I'll steal it :)

Edited July 21, 2011 by wapiti

[peacefully]

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[Plink]

My DD struggled with vision problems and counting 1:1 was my first clue. We used different sizes of cups as manipulatives. They are big enough that she could see one at a time, and they stacked easily for making groups of 10. We used tiny cups as ones, medium cups for tens, and large cups for hundreds.

[Critterfixer]

I really, really hope that I do find someone for vision therapy that I don't have to be suspicious of. What will probably end up happening is that I will be forced to take what I can get and just be a least favorite client because I will be questioning everything.:D

 

This child is confusing in so many ways. Even at his first evaluation where he was deemed to be autistic he did not complete most of the tests, and the consensus was that "We get the feeling that he can do these things--he just sees no point in it."

 

He has not had OT, given that at the time when he was diagnosed we were literally in the middle of a move across state (had the house sold, packed, etc) that ended up falling apart. We are still not sure where we will be in another month! One of the hazards of small town living is that choices in OT and speech therapy often involve multi-hour commutes. We just got a decent OT and speech center close to us, so if we end up staying I will be taking Christopher for some work there.

 

The funny thing about this kid when it comes to counting is that he really "gets" place value and has since he was about five and a half. He was having trouble ordering numbers (reversing them) and I decided to teach him (although it wasn't in Saxon K) about why the 1 goes in front of the 5 in 15. He picked this up very quickly, because the idea of right and left was very confusing for him. He knows now that the groups of numbers start with the highest value first and proceed to the lowest value, which is helpful for him. He seldom reverses numbers now, especially if he breaks it down into tens and ones. Reversing the order of a problem now--he does that a lot, but no more than his twin does.

 

This am we worked with a number line (I tend to rotate the use of manipulatives and the number line every other day or so) and he did OK with it today. I make his number line quite a bit larger than average so he can't cover more than one number at a time with his finger.

 

Yllek, the egg cartons idea is great! I've got chickens and tons of egg cartons, so I'll be making those tonight!

[nitascool]

I didn't see that anyone mentioned Math U See blocks ($35 The set consists of five each of the 2s, 3s, 4s, 6s, 7s, 8s, 9s, and 100s; seven 5s, twenty units and twenty-one 10s).

 

My ds who has both gross and fine motor delays hasn't had any real trouble with them. His fine motor skills are just now at the level of an average 5yo and we've been using these blocks for the last 3 years. They were designed with special needs kids in mind. The only problem I have had with them was that ds would put them in his mouth (he has PICA).

 

The unit block is a cube just slightly smaller then the size of a die, the 2 block is twice that size. The ten block is the size of ten unit blocks glued together. Each block is a different color, so even my dd (at 2 years) knew which number was which.

 

There is some stacking in the Primer and Alpha levels (2 or 3 lessons) but mostly they are used beside each other. I think it was something along the lines of building a 10 wall and a 9 wall which was not necessary, but a fun extra.