When do you worry about reve6rsals and testing?(dyslexia)

[Soror]

I have suspected dyslexia in my ds (turns 7 July 30). At the beginning of last year at 6 he could not say the alphabet or count to 10, recognize most letters, numbers, constantly confused directions, clothing etc. After posting on here I decided to go ahead and pick programs that are more apt to work with him.

 

We have done RSB(although he couldn't count he did pretty well on mental math), I See Sam, and HWOT. We are now half-way through RSB- he can count to 100, although slowly- and sometimes still gets the ending of words wrong(confuses ty and teen) but his mental math is good (for his age imo). He is on the BR3 set about half-way. We are now onto the 2nd grade printing book in HWOT and he can do 1 page a day, fairly well and neat.

 

I am beyond thrilled with his progress but we still have issues. He pretty much always reverses B and D, 2 and 5, writes 6 and 9 both backward. I did a yearend screening and noticed as well that he still has difficulty with directional terms like before and after and such. He can get his shoes on the right feet most of the time now and finally seems to know which side is right. He can say the alphabet as well.

 

On his reading he is progressing well I think, we started ISS at the beginning of June last year. It still seems like hardwork for him and his blending although better is sporadic and choppy. I noticed that he seems like to mentally read it and then say it outloud. He seems to be able to do much better that way(not sure if that signifies anything but thought it worth noting). I do notice as well that he likes to substitute words sometimes but when I make him slow down is able to usually sound it out, I think that is just due to rushing, although I could be wrong. He still doesn't always remember or say the correct vowel sound out the gate but when I stop him does ok. He has some pronunciation issues, generally he is not hard to understand but some words he has a hard time saying correctly, like tent, he says temp. Recently it was in a book though and finally released how to say it right, but it is not how he prefers to say it.

 

It just seems like it is still hardwork for him and I don't know if that is just him or signifies anything bigger. I had read that reversals are common to 8, I wonder do I just sit back until then. We took him to a COVD and she said everything was great on that end.

 

I have AAS and plan to start that this coming year, had tried to start it earlier but wanted to progress with reading first. I hope we can finish this BR3 and AR1 by the end of summer before he starts it. I am scheduling RSB to go through the first half of next year as well, hoping to start cursive then as well. Maybe that will help with writing. I don't generally make him do any other writing and he seems to do ok with that.

 

Anything else I should do, thoughts? ideas? Worrying too much or not enough?

[PeterPan]

Since the reversals can be eyes, you ought to have his eyes checked by a developmental optometrist. http://www.covd.org My dd both is dyslexic AND needed VT.

[Soror]

He has been checked by a Dr from that site and given an a-ok, no problems whatsoever. She noted on tracking he was a bit advanced for his age. Sorry my post was long and that part did not likely stand out well.

Edited June 4, 2011 by soror

[rafiki]

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[Dobela]

If he is still having pronunciation issues I would ask for a speech referral. There is a possibility he is not hearing well or that he is having auditory processing issues that are hindering him. At age 6 I would not expect him to be speaking and substituting sounds in words.

[Misty]

My apologies for hijacking..

 

My 8yr old still reverses almost all numbers (even her ones :001_huh:). It's like she is writing mirror image when she does math.. For letters, it's not quite as bad, but still a few reversals..

 

She was slow to learn to read.. Finally reading Bob Books level B fluently, but this is only a recent development. She just turned 8 last month.

 

She has been evaluated by two different developmental optometrists, a year apart. The first time, she had significant issues in areas of convergence and tracking and they identified a retained primitive reflex (Moro reflex). The 2nd time (two months ago) she only had moderate issues with convergence. What has changed? Well, just diet, supplements, and some therapies such as interactive metronome. Definitely improved, but still some issues with convergence. We have not yet done vision therapy.

 

So my question is.. Do convergence issues cause reversals? Does that even make sense? Or should I have dyslexia checked by a neuropsych? She does not display the other characteristics of dyslexia such as left-handedness, etc.

 

Thanks for any feedback.

[laundrycrisis]

IMO persistent reversals are a visual processing symptom, not an eye teaming symptom. Not all COVD optometrists deal with visual processing problems (our first one did not; our second one did). I would find someone who does, whether it is a COVD doctor or another type of specialist, and have that group of tests administered. You may not find it mentioned on websites but have to call and ask specifically if they test for visual processing issues and if they offer therapy for those issues. There is therapy for visual processing issues - anyone who tells you otherwise just doesn't know about it.

[PeterPan]

Just to follow up with laundry's comments, our VT was 3 months working on convergence, focusing, etc., just to get the eyes working properly, THEN another how many months of specifically working on visual processing, nothing but visual processing. And like laundry said, I'm not sure all VT docs do this. And yes, ours had separate tests for it, separate software, separate materials packets, etc. You needed to fix how the eyes worked together so you'd get the correct input to learn how to process correctly, if that makes any sense. It's not like you could go to the end and just do the visual processing stuff and get it to work.

 

Also, they said *some* people's visual processing scores would jump up just by getting the eyes working together correctly. Some kids needed those extra months of the visual processing therapy to get the scores to come up.

[Misty]

Thank you laundry and OhElizabeth.. I think I need to take her back to the first developmental optometrist.. He certainly has been doing this longer than the 2nd one and does more thorough testing and therapy. What would some other symptoms of visual processing issues be? And would Irlene lenses help?

[Love_to_Read]

You might want to read up on dyslexia...a page I found last night clicking through the Barton Reading site onto more info about dyslexia mentioned how early intervention is much better than waiting around. I know that's my biggest regret for how we handled my dd's issues. I could tell there were problems like really struggling to blend/segment letters or to rhyme in kindergarten; now that she's in fourth, it's catching up to her that the words are harder and harder to just guess, so were realizing that she does need to go back and build up those foundational skills like phonemic awareness. You might want to try flipping through some of the info and links there about dyslexia, see where it takes you.

[laundrycrisis]

Thank you laundry and OhElizabeth.. I think I need to take her back to the first developmental optometrist.. He certainly has been doing this longer than the 2nd one and does more thorough testing and therapy. What would some other symptoms of visual processing issues be? And would Irlene lenses help?

 

Irlen Syndrom is a completely different issue. I would ask him specifically when calling on the phone if he can test for and do therapy for visual processing. Here is a page with some information on the specific issues in this category:

 

http://www.visiontherapy4kids.com/ContentPage.aspx?id=52

 

OhElizabeth is right - if there are eye teaming issues those have to be dealt with first but going on from there, if there are still problems, the next step is visual processing and unfortunately not all COVD optometrists are prepared to address it.

 

Also if you think there are possibly auditory processing problems I would look for separate testing and therapy for that.

[Soror]

I have looked at the links and he too had many, many of the symptoms of early dyslexia. But after posting here last year I really got the impression that there wasn't much to be done besides ruling out eye issues, by visiting a COVD dr, which we did, and then choose appropriate programs, which I have tried to do. I am wondering now if there is more I am to do.

 

Is he always going to struggle? He has made HUGE progress that is sure. It is frustrating to be honest, because I did follow the COVD list and now I am hearing, you probably got the wrong kind of Dr. If you cannot follow the rec. list then what good is it? UGH!

[laundrycrisis]

My opinion from my own experience with DS1 is that therapies can help if they are for specific problem areas. I would not just accept "dyslexia" and learning to adapt without trying various therapies.

 

Work with a COVD optometrist for eye teaming problems is never wasted. It just might not be going the whole way. It would be nice if they all addressed visual processing and I don't understand why some do and some don't.

[PeterPan]

The COVD list isn't personal recommendations, just professional membership. No where else would you assume all the docs on a list were of equal calibre, so don't with COVD either. I had a huge range of options in our area, and they ranged from docs who mainly did regular patients but saw an occasional special to do VT (with the doc doing it himself) all the way to a doc who writes for textbooks and has a huge VT practice with multiple full-time therapists. Just a huge range of experience there.

 

When I asked at our place, they suggested chosing Fellows from the COVD list as a way of steering toward the better ones.

[TAKlinda]

To deal with letter reversals, use dot patterns for letter and number reversals. Some children have difficulties isolating the lines and arcs that make up letters, so to them b, d, p, q seem the same.

 

The best way to teach kids to read is to use decoding words. Give the child a list of sight words and then have them use a highlighter pen to highlight the small sounds within the word. eg., candid = highlight 'can' in one color and 'did' in another color. The child then reads the words by reading each color unit.

[Soror]

The lady I went to does lots of therapy from my understanding, from talking to her.

 

I will have to look into the dot patterns for the numbers and highlighting the words.

[rafiki]

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[Dobela]

It is frustrating. :grouphug: Instead of throwing darts in the dark and wondering if you've hit the bullseye, schedule a Neuropsychological evaluation.

 

We as homeschoolers tend to think we can do everything ourselves. Sometimes we hit a wall and NEED a professional outside looking in. We only have our children and this is their normal. In public school, teachers have experience with hundreds of children in that stage and can more easily see when intervention is needed.

 

It has nothing to do with something you are or are not doing. Sometimes there is a difference in how the child is wired.

 

Keep in mind a lot of learning differences have symptoms that overlap. Labels have changed throughout time. There are variations with whom diagnosed the child. It's also beneficial to have follow up NP evaluations every 3-4 years because things change as the child develops and is worked with. There is a lot that smells and looks like, but isn't truely x, y, z.

 

You are obviously concerned, follow your mama instinct. You know your child best.

:iagree: Having another person look at our child in other situations is very important. I am a former early childhood specialist and teacher and I can't do all that my kids need by myself. And, sometimes I have missed clues that are big missing chucks of the puzzles that make up my children. I forget what is typical or not.

 

Outside evaluations from a variety of professionals is very important. First, if by some off chance that you are ever reported to authorities for 'educational neglect' because your child is 'behind', you can show that not only are you aware that the child is not at the levels of ps kids, but also that you are looking for answers and solutions. Second, the professionals can validate that what you are doing is on the right track (or not) and help you fine tune your approach. I learned more about my son and dd from their outside evals than I ever expected. It also took lots of stress and responsibility off my shoulders. I was trying to find answers to problems that I couldn't solve. Not only did I not have the right tools, I wasn't even close to using the right ones. You could say I was in the wrong room in the dark. Third, if your child does have a more significant disability, you may open more doors for therapies and interventions in the future that will be of greater benefit to your child than what you are doing now.

 

I have had evals and professionals that were a total waste of my time. Unfortunately it happens. But without the input of the good ones my children would not have made the gains they have made to this point.

[Dobela]

I have looked at the links and he too had many, many of the symptoms of early dyslexia. But after posting here last year I really got the impression that there wasn't much to be done besides ruling out eye issues, by visiting a COVD dr, which we did, and then choose appropriate programs, which I have tried to do. I am wondering now if there is more I am to do.

 

Is he always going to struggle? He has made HUGE progress that is sure. It is frustrating to be honest, because I did follow the COVD list and now I am hearing, you probably got the wrong kind of Dr. If you cannot follow the rec. list then what good is it? UGH!

I understand your frustration. Unfoirtunately because someone is on a list, or works well for another child, they may be a poor match for your child. My son's VT is one of my favorite people. Her dedication to my son, the effort she put into correcting his vision, and the amazing results we have seen have made her the first person I recommend to others.

 

Unfortunately it seems she is a poor match for my dd who has known vision issues. She doesn't like to work with kids under 6, doesn't really have the tools to eval them, and so on. I am frustrated to say the least because my next option is hours away.

[Soror]

Where is the exhale emoticon? I just feel so torn on this. I think I am going to ask on our local hs list and see what testing others have done and their experiences.

 

Many thanks for the support and help, I am sorry that I missed this yesterday.

[jenbrdsly]

Hi all, I thought I'd chime my two cents, although there are a lot of good ideas already posted.

I taught K-4 for six years in public schools. Regarding letter and number reversals, here would be my standard response. Reversals are normal until about the end of second grade. By the middle of third grade, that's a big red flag. (More on this at: http://teachingmybabytoread.blog.com/2011/03/03/letter-and-number-reversals/)

 

But it sounds like there are other things that could be going on beside simple letter reversals. Other things to look for would be memory issues, a child telling you that the letters were moving on the page, or trouble learning to count.

 

Even if you are homeschooling, you could still ask your school district (preferably in writing) to assess your child for a learning difficulty. You could do this in addition to pursuing the issue through your health insurance. If it was me, I'd go at it from both angles just to double check.

 

Good luck!