Deniseibase Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 We have tried EVERYTHING. Classical Writing, Bravewriter, Saxon Grammar & Writing (we like the grammar part), WWE, a couple others that I can't even remember, plus of course the fallback option of mom saying "Good heavens, I was an English major, this isn't that hard, I'll just make something up" and I'm sure you can guess how well THAT went! :eek: She HATES it - she's a big math whiz, but getting her to write is like pulling teeth! I have gotten her to the point where she can write a sorta mechanically correct sentence, and string a few of them together to the point where she makes a paragraph, but it's a paragraph like this one - "James was Mary's son so after Mary died he became king of Scotland. Later, Queen Elizabeth died. James was the only person left in her family. So James was a king of England." I swear that is some of her best work, too. A lot of it seems to be the mechanical act of writing, whether with a pen, pencil, or typing, seems to wear out her hands very fast. But even if I have her dictate to me and I write down the words, we end up with very mechanical pieces - which confuses me because she is very creative in ordinary conversation and playing with friends! So, will IEW help? If so, where do we start - I've been to the website and just got CONFUSED. Can we use IEW with our current grammar program (Saxon Grammar, which I am NOT switching from because it makes sense to her and she is LEARNING it for the first time ever!)? We are a secular family - is IEW very religious? Thanks for any help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyCamper Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 No actual advice, but I am similarly situated. I just ordered IEW for my mathwhizz, but non-enthusiastic-about-writing kid. I read that the SWIs are secular. He is interested in improving his writing and we are awaiting for the arrival of SWI-B with high hopes.:001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca77 Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 For 3-5 grades you start with Student Writing Intensive A (SWI A). SWI B for 6-8. It provides dvd's that teach your student each lesson. IMO this is all you need. It is definitely not to religious, and continuing with Saxon grammar will be fine. I had great success using this with my 6th grade son, as it absolutely got him writing, and he really liked Andrew. My dd. will be using SWI A next year. It's worth every penny, knowing your child's getting excellent, clear, step by step instructions by an expert communicator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smjlangley Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 For 3-5 grades you start with Student Writing Intensive A (SWI A). SWI B for 6-8. It provides dvd's that teach your student each lesson. IMO this is all you need. It is definitely not to religious, and continuing with Saxon grammar will be fine. I had great success using this with my 6th grade son, as it absolutely got him writing, and he really liked Andrew. My dd. will be using SWI A next year. It's worth every penny, knowing your child's getting excellent, clear, step by step instructions by an expert communicator. :iagree: completely. The step by step process has helped my reluctant writers tremendously in areas where I just had no clue where to start! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmasmommy Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 For 3-5 grades you start with Student Writing Intensive A (SWI A). SWI B for 6-8. It provides dvd's that teach your student each lesson. IMO this is all you need. It is definitely not to religious, and continuing with Saxon grammar will be fine. I had great success using this with my 6th grade son, as it absolutely got him writing, and he really liked Andrew. My dd. will be using SWI A next year. It's worth every penny, knowing your child's getting excellent, clear, step by step instructions by an expert communicator. I am SO happy to hear this. Our SWI A just came in the mail last week. I stressed and stressed over spending the money but my kids just don't "get" writing and it's the biggest frustration in our homeschool. I'm really hoping we have a similar experience. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TundraAcademy Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 My 12yo son has done surprisingly well with it. I agree, the step-by-step has helped a lot. He seems to like the "keynote outlines followed by writing concept." We did try SWI-A but he didn't like the teaching. I thought about giving up, but then I got the All Things Fun and Fascinating book for grade 5 and Ancient History writing lessons for grade 6 and he did well with them. He is the type of kid who wants to just get done with his schoolwork so he can have his freedom! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailofsparks Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 . A lot of it seems to be the mechanical act of writing, whether with a pen, pencil, or typing, seems to wear out her hands very fast. But even if I have her dictate to me and I write down the words, we end up with very mechanical pieces - which confuses me because she is very creative in ordinary conversation and playing with friends! So, will IEW help? If so, where do we start - I've been to the website and just got CONFUSED. Can we use IEW with our current grammar program (Saxon Grammar, which I am NOT switching from because it makes sense to her and she is LEARNING it for the first time ever!)? We are a secular family - is IEW very religious? Thanks for any help! IEW is great at teaching organization of a paragraph: topic sentence, body, and clincher sentence, using parts of speech to enhance stylistic technique. Rewriting (to avoid plagiarism) is a great skill taught here. After reading the text source (yours from a literature book, or short piece from IEW), students learn to outline from memory, using key words. Then they take those key words which trigger their memory a bit - but not enough to plagiarize - and rewrite truly wonderful paragraphs. We did this in a co-op, and each student did a great job, using the same text, though created very different papers from each other. Students can add any prior knowledge they may have, or experiences, or use other resources to make their point - maybe a famous quote can be thrown in there. IEW teaches all of this and more. Truly is a great program! HTH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgrubbs Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 It is also important to remember that if you buy directly from IEW they offer a FULL 100% plus shipping money back guarantee. Buy it, try it, but if you don't like it, send it back! you have nothing to lose! The IEW yahoo group is also fabulous and Jill (moderator) is extremely helpful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 I teach paid classes using IEW through a group, and I've seen amazing results. They'll go into this, but remember that it is all about structure and mechanics at this stage. Developing solid expression and individual style will come later if you keep at it. The two problems I've seen where it doesn't work: 1. Don't expect more than the assignments call for at first. Give them time. They are not going to produce writing like you do as an adult. 2. It is not a hands-off program for the majority of students. You need to be involved as a cheerleader and to check their work. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailofsparks Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 but remember that it is all about structure and mechanics at this stage. Developing solid expression and individual style will come later if you keep at it. GVA, may I ask you a question? My ds12 has used two IEW them-based books (pretty well finsihed both of them). I am very impressed with his writing improvements (from reluctant to confident). You say it's all about structure and mechanics at first - yes, I agree. Are you saying if we continue to use IEW, he will develop expression and individual style? Have you seen this in your students, I guess? Can you say why this happens? It isn't intuitive to me. I have been thinking we may want to move on from IEW now that he has structure and mechanics down so well, so he can grow in self-expression and creativity. Are there other IEW aids that I might consider to help us along? Thanks for any input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 GVA, may I ask you a question? My ds12 has used two IEW them-based books (pretty well finsihed both of them). I am very impressed with his writing improvements (from reluctant to confident). You say it's all about structure and mechanics at first - yes, I agree. Are you saying if we continue to use IEW, he will develop expression and individual style? Have you seen this in your students, I guess? Can you say why this happens? It isn't intuitive to me. I have been thinking we may want to move on from IEW now that he has structure and mechanics down so well, so he can grow in self-expression and creativity. Are there other IEW aids that I might consider to help us along? Thanks for any input. My oldest used IEW from 4th-7th grade, and by late 7th grade, he will really irritated at having to use a certain number of dress-ups per paragraph and he was complaining about having to do a keyword outline because he felt like he could order things in his head and start writing. When I saw the results of letting him work out his own, I knew that it was time to let him stray from the IEW way of writing, which can indeed seem artificial at times. I really haven't used one source. I've assigned various chapters from Warriner's here and there, and I plan to put him through IEW's Elegant Essay, although that is a high school book. Teaching the Classics has some good material too. Basically once they have structure-and-mechanics , you want to hone their ability to build an argument. I would ask over and over when reading his work, "Do you have enough detail? How can you prove this? What else do you need to say?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailofsparks Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 My oldest used IEW from 4th-7th grade, and by late 7th grade, he will really irritated at having to use a certain number of dress-ups per paragraph and he was complaining about having to do a keyword outline because he felt like he could order things in his head and start writing. When I saw the results of letting him work out his own, I knew that it was time to let him stray from the IEW way of writing, which can indeed seem artificial at times. I really haven't used one source. I've assigned various chapters from Warriner's here and there, and I plan to put him through IEW's Elegant Essay, although that is a high school book. Teaching the Classics has some good material too. Basically once they have structure-and-mechanics , you want to hone their ability to build an argument. I would ask over and over when reading his work, "Do you have enough detail? How can you prove this? What else do you need to say?" Boy, does this sound familiar. My ds has mechanics and dress-ups down, does not like to use the ouline format any more (though I have him use it for research type papers to avoid plagiarism), etc. Thanks - I'll have to look into Warriner's and keep Elegant Essay in mind. I have TtC - pulled it off the shelf. Do you just analyze the literature together and try to apply it to your ds's writing style? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicoryChick Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 My currently 12yo almost 13yo HATED writing (the physical act of writing). She loved making up stories, but hated the physical act of writing, so I didn't push a formal writing class until last year. We tried "Write with the Best" (being used with the program we were using), she hated it. This year we used IEW Medieval History-Based Writing course and she actually didn't mind it. It worked for us. She like the step by step process and I would let her type up the final copy. So IEW worked for my reluctant writer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Thanks - I'll have to look into Warriner's and keep Elegant Essay in mind. I have TtC - pulled it off the shelf. Do you just analyze the literature together and try to apply it to your ds's writing style? Thanks! He's in a paid class for literature/writing, but from what I gather, the teacher really isn't that familiar with IEW and hasn't been through TTC. So at home we apply those because I'm familiar with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassenach Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 IEW transformed my dd from an unenthusiastic writer, into a confident one. We used twss (for me to understand the program) and the Ancient themed program to implement it. It was one of the single most effective programs that I have ever used. I think it is a great logic stage program. It gives the kids a formula and a step by step process to follow. I think enjoyment almost always follows confidence, and that is what iew did for us. Her writing started to sound more sophisticated, and suddenly she started feeling really good about herself and her writing abilities. From there her confidence soared and instead if dreading an assignment, she was excited to tackle it. We enrolled her in PS this year, and she has carried an A in English. She will be in honors English next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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