Something besides WWE/FLL.... ?

[Sahamamama]

:blush: I realize whose board I'm on.... but we are just needing something besides WWE and FLL for further on in this year (probably by October, she'll burn out on this combo). She's six, bright, doing first grade work, loves to read and write... and WWE at this point feels like... busywork? :blush: We're also doing FLL 2 (did level 1 last year in K). It's okay, she has learned from it, but...

 

If you use WWE/FLL, is this just a phase that everyone goes through (wanting something else)? Will it pass? Is there something else that's better for this kind of student? Something... I don't know, more artistic? More in tune with beauty -- the beauty of the natural world, poetry, language, thoughts? More about the process of writing, the purposes of writing, instead of just this tedious pile of nuts and bolts?

 

I realize that's asking a lot of a writing course for a six year old. I suppose you'd just have to know my girl... she's not a boy who's struggling to get the words on the paper. She's not at enmity with the pencil. ;) SWB has complained that all other writing programs (besides WWE) were written for girls. So I assume she wrote WWE for boys? LOL. I'm glad for the boys, I used to tutor them. I know they need this type of program, but... frankly, my daughter doesn't need something this incremental.

 

And as I look ahead to second grade (naturally, I'm planning a year ahead, right?), the thought of another year doing WWE/FLL with this kid brings ME to tears. I think it really will burn her out. Now, she loves writing. She writes all the time, nearly every day, and enjoys it. I'd like to keep it that way.

 

If you did use WWE/FLL, and you switched, what did you choose to move onto, and why? How did it work out? :bigear:

[Satori]

My six year old dd also loves to write. Her greatest present is a new writing journal and her favorite way to spend time is to write. She's writing a story right now in fact.

 

We ditched WWE last year and moved to Write Source, where her writing talents can be more explored. I'm reading books about the writing process (6+1 Writing Traits, Writer's Jungle) and have gotten some great ideas. I'd love to find a writing program especially meant for very young, passionate writers. I might check out Writing Tales this summer.

 

For Grammar, we've loved Growing with Grammar. I think she and I learn better by seeing the lessons and writing/practicing grammar more than just hearing it orally. We started FLL2 back up this spring. She groans when I pull it out and makes fun when I use curriculi that seems too easy for her (such as repeat this 3x). In doing FLL1 and now 2, we do 2-5 lessons at a time, but it's still a bit annoying sometimes. I think it does a thorough job exploring grammar in a different way than GWG though, so we keep doing it.

 

This past week we started MCT and I'm thinking that might be a better combo for us to use with GWG.

 

So I'm all :bigear: to hear what others think!

[Mama2two]

Have you looked at the writing program from WriteShop?

[FairProspects]

Well, we LOVE WWE here, but I have boys, LOL, and it is perfectly paced for ds. If I had a girl like that, however, I would probably use CW's primers instead of or in additon to WWE. They have one for each season, so you could easily start it in the fall.

[Critterfixer]

I know there are a number of grammar programs out there. I took a look at the free stuff from KISS grammar and I was impressed. I've heard some good things about Daily Grams as well.

When she writes, is her passion creative writing? Personally, I feel that the best time for creative writers to learn basic character development and plot development is at an early age. I consider it the basic grammar for story telling. You also would want to continue narration, with particular attention to how the story is constructed so that she can use that information when she is writing her own stories.

Another thing that could be useful for her in her writing is to really start teaching her the basics of descriptive writing. Some people are naturally gifted at description, but I think it is of use to spend some time practicing the art. Descriptive writing is not necessarily flowery, overblown synonyms. Much of it comes from paying close attention to the sensory impressions of a scene, person or object. This sort of writing is also fun if you mix it up a bit.

[Sahamamama]

My six year old dd also loves to write. Her greatest present is a new writing journal and her favorite way to spend time is to write. She's writing a story right now in fact.

 

We ditched WWE last year and moved to Write Source, where her writing talents can be more explored. I'm reading books about the writing process (6+1 Writing Traits, Writer's Jungle) and have gotten some great ideas. I'd love to find a writing program especially meant for very young, passionate writers. I might check out Writing Tales this summer.

 

For Grammar, we've loved Growing with Grammar. I think she and I learn better by seeing the lessons and writing/practicing grammar more than just hearing it orally. We started FLL2 back up this spring. She groans when I pull it out and makes fun when I use curriculi that seems too easy for her (such as repeat this 3x). In doing FLL1 and now 2, we do 2-5 lessons at a time, but it's still a bit annoying sometimes. I think it does a thorough job exploring grammar in a different way than GWG though, so we keep doing it.

 

This past week we started MCT and I'm thinking that might be a better combo for us to use with GWG.

 

So I'm all :bigear: to hear what others think!

 

Thanks, Angela. You are part of the reason I posted this question. ;) I read your blog, because your daughter is just that much farther ahead of mine that I get to let you do my research for me. :glare: Just kidding.

 

No, seriously, my six-year old S seems to be much like your six-year old S. I've read all your blog posts about writing, grammar, WWE, FLL, Write Source, AAS (you got us hooked on that), GWG (I plan to order that), and MCT (I'm looking into it), and I have 6 + 1 on order. So. You are Yoda. :D

 

We keep doing FLL2, as well as WWE. I think she learns from the FLL, but I also think she could handle more, could benefit from a much more visual approach (less oral now), and would love something beautiful, not mechanical.

 

I can't quite put my finger on what's missing from the PHP materials. They're "good," if you want to dissect everything... but... we don't want to. We actually LIKE language. This kid gets every pun we throw at her. She gets jokes, riddles, poetry, haiku, and the little gems in Chinese fortune cookies. No, really, the kid is deep. Her vocabulary is ridiculous. Her memory is like a steel trap. Her reading and comprehension are far beyond her age. What do I do with this child?

 

I have to go off now and read the other responses. ;)

[Hedgehog]

What do I do with this child?

 

You probably meant this rhetorically, but really, I'd just let her read voraciously - amass books ad nauseum and let her feast. (My dream is to have a whole room set aside for books and cosy chairs :001_smile: )

 

My mum is fond of telling us that my older sister was writing stories before she went to school. I'm not sure how detailed these stories were, but apparently, she would give my sister a topic and my sister would away and write; one story a week. I haven't done this with my dc, but I guess if it is enjoyed, why not?

[Dawn E]

I would encourage you to continue to look at MCT. From the description of your dd it seems this would be a program she would enjoy. My dd is also a language lover. From the time she began writing her letters, she was filling notebooks with songs, poems and stories. I was drawn to MCT because I knew it would delight her and fan the flame of her love. I'm not sold on it as a complete LA program in the earliest years, though, because I do like to introduce and practice mechanics and usage at this stage also. Consequently, you may want to continue a more traditional grammar like GWG alongside it. We use R&S. We'll also continue WWE because though my dd can replicate in beautiful detail most any story...the idea of summarizing one filled her with panic. This skill is the one we need to work on for now.

[Sahamamama]

I would encourage you to continue to look at MCT. From the description of your dd it seems this would be a program she would enjoy. My dd is also a language lover. From the time she began writing her letters, she was filling notebooks with songs, poems and stories. I was drawn to MCT because I knew it would delight her and fan the flame of her love. I'm not sold on it as a complete LA program in the earliest years, though, because I do like to introduce and practice mechanics and usage at this stage also. Consequently, you may want to continue a more traditional grammar like GWG alongside it. We use R&S. We'll also continue WWE because though my dd can replicate in beautiful detail most any story...the idea of summarizing one filled her with panic. This skill is the one we need to work on for now.

 

Thank you so much, Dawn! You hit the nail on the head, exactly.

 

 

• Yes, my daughter DOES need to work on the narration that's available in WWE, especially as this skill goes up in its complexity.

• Yes, I still want to work on the mechanics of grammar in a more structured way than MCT seems to do (from what I can see of it).

• Yes, I like that MCT would incorporate humor, puns, wordplay, poetry, academic vocabulary, and so on into her language studies.

 

So, if the budget allows next school year, we could:

 

 

• Continue with WWE 2 and/or narrations according to WTM guidelines (but not use the workbook, as we are doing this year). Hmmm.....

• Use GWG next year, after we finish FLL2 this year for 1st grade. What level would I use? GWG 3?

• Try to see if we can swing MCT Island for next year, OR work out our own home-constructed language course for 2nd grade, then go into MCT Island for 3rd grade.

 

What do you think? :bigear:

[Critterfixer]

I would continue the narrations and copywork, but you might actually let her pick the books for the copywork. Chose passages that are very cleverly constructed for their literary effect, and less for the conventions of grammar. Most of the time, those two things overlap anyway. If she is very, very skilled you might even go ahead to start some dictation. I don't think you would have to use the workbooks for this.

 

For creative writers there is nothing better than lots and lots and lots of reading. Not just stories. Challenge her to read poetry, plays, great speeches, informative books. Anything can spark the desire to create.

[swainsonshawk]

Just a thought. . . I just bought Story Starters. It is really inspiring my kids to write! It includes ideas to stretch your writer, too. I'm using it successfully with 2-6th grade boys.

[momto2Cs]

Just a thought. . . I just bought Story Starters. It is really inspiring my kids to write! It includes ideas to stretch your writer, too. I'm using it successfully with 2-6th grade boys.

 

Thank you! I am definitely getting this for my ds almost 10. Maybe this will get the creative/writing juices flowing!

[Sahamamama]

I would continue the narrations and copywork, but you might actually let her pick the books for the copywork. Chose passages that are very cleverly constructed for their literary effect, and less for the conventions of grammar. Most of the time, those two things overlap anyway. If she is very, very skilled you might even go ahead to start some dictation. I don't think you would have to use the workbooks for this.

 

For creative writers there is nothing better than lots and lots and lots of reading. Not just stories. Challenge her to read poetry, plays, great speeches, informative books. Anything can spark the desire to create.

 

:iagree:For example, today's sentence for copywork from WWE was something about the Brothers Grimm. She just looks at it and then looks at me, as if to say (but she doesn't actually say), "Why?" In the context of the school day, this sentence is so disconnected, so random, so arbitrary.

 

She even asked me about it the other day. "Mommy, why am I copying these sentences? I miss the Bible verses and poems for copywork that we did last year. They were pretty sentences." That was what we did for Kindergarten, and she preferred it to, "The Brothers Grimm wrote fairy tales," or whatever.... :001_huh:

 

I could get the download of WWE 2, print out only the instructor's pages, then use our own handwriting paper for only the narrations. She doesn't use the actual WWE pages, so we use the paper for each lesson anyway. Next year she'll be doing copywork in cursive, too. :bigear:

[Sahamamama]

:lurk5::bigear:

[Critterfixer]

She even asked me about it the other day. "Mommy, why am I copying these sentences? I miss the Bible verses and poems for copywork that we did last year. They were pretty sentences."

 

Just beautiful.:001_smile: And she is right. They are exceptional sentences. Let her copy Tennyson. And Shakespeare. And the Bible.

Better yet, read to her some of Tennyson and have her pick her favorite lines to copy.

[poetic license]

I was the type of writer who would have hated WWE as a student, so I'm following this thread with interest. I think that there are some students for whom the copy work will just be busywork. they don't need that step. perhaps your daughter could start keeping her own journal of quotes *she* loves in lieu of traditional copywork?

[Critterfixer]

Copywork is just busywork unless there is a purpose to it. I believe the goal is to accustom the eye to seeing well constructed sentences constructed.

While I might not have enjoyed WWE as a child (narration and copywork would have caused me pain in so many ways) I think it would have been good for me. Learning how to narrate a story has it's uses. Also, if I remember correctly, we were asked to do a great deal of original composition when I was young. At that time, I could come up with many, many imaginative stories, although they were off-the-wall compared to what my peers were coming up with on the playground. However, I couldn't organize my thoughts into story form very well. I struggled with the grammar, getting hung up over punctuation, commas, etc... Because I was creative I sort of got a "pass" on writing, because "she writes all the time."

It is sort of amusing, in a way, because I actually LOVED grammar. I could diagram sentences all day long. It was so delightful to chop them up and put them in their places. But for whatever reason, that never actually transitioned into my writing as well as it ought.

Edited April 21, 2011 by Critterfixer

[Sahamamama]

Just beautiful.:001_smile: And she is right. They are exceptional sentences. Let her copy Tennyson. And Shakespeare. And the Bible.

Better yet, read to her some of Tennyson and have her pick her favorite lines to copy.

 

:iagree:She would love this. Thanks!

[kbed0849]

My 7 and 6 yr. olds are loving MCT and I have added IEW PAL:writing. We are only using the third phase of it (it starts with letters, we are well past that). Then we will move into IEW TWSS. They have some create your own lessons that will be age appropriate. If you haven't looked into IEW, it is worth looking into for sure. We tried WWE, and I got the same looks that you describe every time I pulled it out. Mine seem to be responding well to IEW. They have learned how to summarize stories and organize those thoughts quickly. I HIGHLY recommend IEW. It sounds like you may be able to just jump in with TWSS and the earlier create your own lessons with your daughter. My 7 year old is full boy. That is why we started with PAL. The return policy at IEW is AMAZING. You can try it out and if it doesn't work, they really do take it back!!! Oh, and MCT is AMAZING as well. I could go on and on about it all day. My kids LOVE it compared to everything else!!! Good luck!!

[NancyNellen]

We keep a copywork jar for my littles. It is a gigantic pickle jar from Costco which has been cleaned out and filled with little folded up papers on which I have written excerpts from some of our favorite read-alouds, Scripture & poetry memorization. Every day we get the jar down from the shelf, the child chooses 2 selections, reads them and chooses which one s/he would like to copy that day.

 

We do IEW's poetry memorization course (which I cannot recommend highly enough for the language-loving crowd) so many selections come from there (Tennysons The Eagle, Frost's Stopping By Woods, etc...) We also have some favorite sentences from books such as The Hobbit, Narnia, Pooh, Mary Poppins, Little Pilgrim's Progress, etc. These are all stories that we have read together numerous times, and have special meaning for us.

 

We have completed the FLL series, as I do believe it is the most painless, thorough, and gentle grammar out there for early elementary. We don't get hung up if the child doesn't need to repeat something 3x...we just do what is necessary to solidify the skills for each individual child.

 

When I started homeschooling WWE was not available. We did/do narration, copywork, and dictation until beginning CW in 4th grade. It has worked beautifully, and my children have become very competent writers who enjoy the craft.

[Jami]

Well, we LOVE WWE here, but I have boys, LOL, and it is perfectly paced for ds. If I had a girl like that, however, I would probably use CW's primers instead of or in additon to WWE. They have one for each season, so you could easily start it in the fall.

 

:iagree:

 

That was my first thought as you described your daughter. We'll be doing these next year with my 2nd grader and then move into CW Aesop A in 3rd. We do use some elements from WWE and do lots of oral and later written CM style narration.

[mamamoon]

:lurk5: