b, d, p, q reading confusion

[redsquirrel]

I could use some help with ways to help my son with his bdp confusion. He is a hardworking reader and needs repetition...at the same time, he is a new 6 year old so lots and lots of drill doesn't go over well.

 

We are using reading reflex and a bit of ETC (we are in book 4). Are there some phrases or reminders I can say as we read to remind him? I am going to start each reading session with a quick review of those particular sound.

 

He doesn't write much. That seems to be a later developing skill. I know he will get there, but right now we are putting our focus on reading.

 

Thank you.

[blondeviolin]

My oldest doesn't confuse p, but definitely still confuses b/d. Sometimes she'll try to sound it out and realize she's using the wrong sound when the word doesn't make sense. Other times she'll ask me what it is, and then figure out the word.

 

I think it's fairly typical.

[Persephone]

http://ontrackreading.com/phonics-program/telling-b-from-d

 

Try the above link for an excellent approach, which fixed my 1st grade dd's confusion over a couple of days. I now use it extensively as a tutor. I'm thinking something very similar would work for the p/q confusion, but I suggest working only on b/d to start.

 

Re: writing. You could, every day, say: "Get your mouth in a straight line to say /b/ and now write /b/ with the straight line first." Colored markers on a white board often provide much more incentive than pencil on paper, so perhaps that would interest your child. The first graders I work with, both boys and girls, love writing from dictation when it means they get to use the dry-erase markers. I often write the target letter-sound at the top of the white board (e.g. "oa") and then dictate words with that sound and spelling in it: goat, road, soap, etc.

[Rod Everson]

 

Try the above link for an excellent approach, which fixed my 1st grade dd's confusion over a couple of days. I now use it extensively as a tutor.

 

Thanks for the link to Telling b from d on my website. I used it with probably 50-70 kids over the years and it almost always straightened out the confusion in one or two sessions. The really nice thing about the method is that it works both ways, both reading and writing (if you teach the child to write a "d" circle first.) It's also very tactile and doesn't get in the way of the process of reading/writing the way some other methods do.

 

By the way, there's a free multisyllable decoding approach on that same section of my website that's quite consistent with the approach in Reading Reflex. It's just a bit more regimented because it teaches a child an effective way to determine what the "chunks" should be. I used it with every child I worked with and it was exceptionally effective. It also helps build code knowledge.

 

Rod Everson

OnTrack Reading

[redsquirrel]

Thank you so much for all your replies. I am know that the confusion is typical, I just needed a tool to address it. I correct it every time, and often say the sound before he does to remind him. He is the sort of kid who will make the mistake and just keep going. He won't correct it himself all the time. Sometimes, just not always. he also gets frustrated with himself for not getting it.

 

I will work with him on this technique and I expect it will help. It is exactly what I am looking for.

 

I am especially exited to find something to complement Reading Reflex. I really think it is a great method but it is not used often. We faltered a bit when it came to the advanced code and that is when I moved to ETC. I needed to try something else. Honestly, I think I was just running the clock. He just needed to get older. So, now I am trying to go back to RR and the advanced code but keep using ETC for practice

 

Thank you all so much.

[joyfulhomeschooler]

We used a different method that has worked for my two children. The b says "b" because the "b, b, back" comes frist. The d says "d" because the "d, d, donut" comes first.

Don't know if this works for all kids, but it sure worked for mine. I can't remember where I got it from though.

 

This works for reading and writing!

[ElizabethB]

I use all uppercase on the white board for a the first year when teaching phonics.

 

Here are some worksheets for B/D confusion. I don't have anything for p and q, but you could do something along the same lines.

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/dbdb.html

[C King]

Something easy to use is with the "b"... you must have the bat before you hit the ball, so the line(bat) comes first. With the "d", eat the donut and then use a napkin. Obviously, the circle is the donut. Hope this helps a little.

[expat91]

Try using the old saying with the hand signal "Stick with ball is b and ball with stick is d". We did this with all of all children with the hand signals as they wrote the letters and it helped. Repeating the poem each time helped them memorize it and eventually they got it.

 

We also used the Abecca phonics houses with the writing. The down stairs area, basement and upstairs for each section for the writing. I am not a big fan of Abeca but I do love the description that they give the letter areas. To give you an example, the ball of b would live in the downstairs and the stick would go all the way up to the ceiling of the upstairs. This really helped the children as well.

Blessings in your homeschooling,

[joyfulhomeschooler]

Something easy to use is with the "b"... you must have the bat before you hit the ball, so the line(bat) comes first. With the "d", eat the donut and then use a napkin. Obviously, the circle is the donut. Hope this helps a little.

 

ooh, I like that even better!

[mothergooseof4]

http://ontrackreading.com/phonics-program/telling-b-from-d

 

Try the above link for an excellent approach, which fixed my 1st grade dd's confusion over a couple of days. I now use it extensively as a tutor. I'm thinking something very similar would work for the p/q confusion, but I suggest working only on b/d to start.

 

Re: writing. You could, every day, say: "Get your mouth in a straight line to say /b/ and now write /b/ with the straight line first." Colored markers on a white board often provide much more incentive than pencil on paper, so perhaps that would interest your child. The first graders I work with, both boys and girls, love writing from dictation when it means they get to use the dry-erase markers. I often write the target letter-sound at the top of the white board (e.g. "oa") and then dictate words with that sound and spelling in it: goat, road, soap, etc.

 

In PR, she teaches these two letters similar to this method. For the d, your mouth is more open like the circle part of the d. For b, your lips start in a line. When mine get confused, I just say, "Make your mouth right." They put there mouth in either a line or a circle and then only the correct sound will come out. The font of OPGTR does not have a hook on the tail of q so my dd started confusing it with p. The same method works. If they form a line with their lips only p can come out. If their open their mouth, only qu can come out.

[mom2bee]

Today I showed a 5 and 4 yo how to make a b and d out of their fingers into a pair of glasses to help them 'see the difference between b and d. Fortunately p and q don't offer much problem (yet). Begin with b (left hand with thumb and pointer touching each other is put to the left eye) and d is at the enD (right hand with thumb and pointer finger touching each other is put to the right eye.)

 

(in general, Q always, always, goes with his rhyming friend U.) If there is no U, then it can't be Q.

[eternalknot]

What about a Montessori approach?

 

He's not writing much, but he could definitely trace over some sandpaper letters (or write in sand, or shaving cream for practice). As he is tracing, both of you make the appropriate sound. Do a few times a day, or throughout the day, and before long he'll have auditory, visual, and tactile recall of which sound goes with which letter.

 

I have a five year old, and she confused 'b' and 'd' when she was first learning; this worked with her. I made my own cheapo sandpaper letters for super cheap, just the few letters we needed. She liked writing in sand (in a baking pan) but loved writing in shaving cream on the tabletop!

[redsquirrel]

you montessori people are all so good. I have sandpaper letters and I used them looong ago to learn the basic sounds. I can get them out again.

 

I will also try the writing on a cookie sheet with rice or shaving cream. I haven't ever done that because I am pretty sure the sensory experience will overcome any reading instruction, lol. But, maybe it's time to let that happen?

 

I got so spoiled by my elder son. I just told him "this is a picture of th and this is sh, and this is ai" and that was that. He learned to read and I was done. My younger son is prob a very good reader for his age, it's just taking him a teeny bit longer to get there.

[cat]

We have been using the left hand to make a "b" (thumb points up and fingers make fist) and to check before he tries to say the word. He checks every time he comes to a "b" or "d".

 

I will also be checking out all the other great suggestions! Thanks!!!

[Rod Everson]

(This isn't addressed to any particular person...just general thoughts on the matter)

 

One consideration when teaching a child a mnemonic method for dealing with something is whether the mnemonic will interfere with the primary task at hand, in this case, reading comprehension.

 

If you tell a child to imagine something as part of the mnemonic, you're putting a "picture" into the right side of his brain, which is where the storyline of whatever he's reading is also being held. All of a sudden a story about fishing or basketball becomes a story with a baseball and bat intervening (or whatever the mnemonic is about).

 

Similarly, if the child has to drop his book, or pencil, and use both hands to make a bed with both hands, the interference with the actual act of reading or writing is obvious, not to mention the introduction of a bed into the storyline.

 

Of course, if he automates the task fairly quickly, these considerations are temporary. The problem is that many kids with reading problems just don't reach the automatic decoding stage that readily. This is why I've always preferred the method Ms. Spalding came up with...it's very tactile, doesn't rely upon picturing anything, and in my experience resulted in even quite-poor readers quickly automating the process. Put simply, it worked, and worked quickly, with most kids. I taught it to a lot of them, and many of them had already been told other mnemonic methods but were still having trouble confusing b and d.

 

Not trying to be critical of other's suggestions here...just pointing out some of the probable reasons why the method I described works so well. But if something else worked easily for a particular child, that's great.

 

Rod