No where to "fit in".. WDYD? (CC)

[kchara]

After debating until I'm sick in the head and heart about this whole GHC thing, I've realized that I truly don't fit in... ANYWHERE. I'm too conservative for the liberal crowd, and yet I truly believe that there is room in the Body of Christ for many, many different interpretations, and that while I might not agree with someone's theology, and might even consider it dangerous, I could never bring their salvation into question. However, I'm also very fundamentalist... believing that the Scripture is inerrant and completely inspired. Most of my friends, if they knew my true beliefs, would probably consider me a heretic at best, or a blasphemer. ((sigh)) Is it so bad to believe that we can and should critique Scripture, and that Scripture will always hold up to that critique, BECAUSE it is infallible and inerrant? I guess I don't get either side, really, and I'm feeling a lot like I'm out there all on my own. We don't have a home church, as we've left both of the denominations of our childhood, and haven't found another that embraces some core beliefs of ours. So, I have no IRL friends to discuss with, and hash things out. Everything ends up being done on message boards and FB because, honestly, that's where all of my friends are. (I use that term very loosely, by the way, these aren't people I'll lose sleep over if they unfriend me. A better term might be my social network.)

 

I believe the church is as much there for comfort and support of the Body as anything else, perhaps more so than anything else. Teaching, yes, of course. Evangelism to a point. But it's primary purpose is to refresh the Body, so that we can go and spread the Message.

 

So what do you do when you have no where to go to be refreshed? I've considered just going to a couple of denominations that I absolutely don't necessarily agree with doctrinally, JUST to get back to church. I need that relationship, but I'm getting to where I can't handle the decisiveness and bigotry that exists between the different denominations anymore.

 

Any sage words of wisdom? (BTW, this has been a long time coming. If it hadn't been the GHC thing, it would've been something else. It's always something else, and that's part of the problem.)

[SailorMom]

I'm not sure about your area of the country, but United Methodists are pretty open to alternative viewpoints. My MIL is a UM pastor in California, and DH was raised that way - there are huge variations in local churches, but as a whole, UM's are open minded and most of the churches I have been to would never dream of questioning someone's salvation based upon a different Biblical interpretation (or even possibly a different religion altogether).

Another option is Unitarian Universalism. You'd have to be VERY open to other ideas about religion - but they would be as accepting of you as you are of them :)

[Barry Goldwater]

Any sage words of wisdom? (BTW, this has been a long time coming. If it hadn't been the GHC thing, it would've been something else. It's always something else, and that's part of the problem.)

 

I completely sympathize with your post...don't know how sage or wise this is, but here it is anyway...

 

We attend a Bible church that works for us now, is doctrinally in harmony with our beliefs, but we haven't 'become members' and we won't. We routinely visit a 2nd church from time to time, as well as a third that is our in-laws' church. We are actively resisting any efforts and declining any invitations to 'become members' with any specific groups that meet in a specific building.

 

The place we usually attend is one we purposely selected that was close enough for Sunday mornings, but far enough away that we can politely decline more extended involvement. We don't want it anymore, we don't need it, and we'd rather focus extra time on family led worship, study and prayer at home. Not interested in any youth group, 'teen club,' or anything else like that.

 

We're members of Jesus' church...for us membership with a 'local body' isn't a priority...we've confessed our faith to our current church, and if that's not good enough...(and it has been good enough, so far).

 

Also, I highly recommend sermonaudio.com... PM me if you want a list of specific ministers we've found edifying. I promise not to fight with you about it, if you won't. :)

[FaithManor]

We don't fit in either. As a matter of fact, dh and I spent most of our married years as "non-members" of churches even though most of the time we did agree with a fair amount of the theology. But, we couldn't sign a statement of faith on some issues so we didn't join and we didn't serve in capacities that required us to do so.

 

Only recently have we chosen a church in which we've become members. They really, really needed dh's help with their financial picture, ie. accounting. Dh has the expertise and wanted to help so he went to the pastor and head deacon and was frank, but loving, describing potential theological problems in which we might be in disagreement with the elders. As it turns out, this church only required a statement of faith that was basically, the Apostle's Creed and nothing more. So, it was asking that we believe the basics of Christian theology that bind all Christians, Catholic, EO. Protestants, together. All of the stuff that is allegorical/up for differing opinions on interpretation was not included. Therefore, we were willing to become members and have dh serve as the treasurer. Thankfully, they have been a very open, loving church eldership.

 

That said, we are very, very careful not to approach the subjects that could be divisive..what would be the point? Additionally, when in a smaller group of Christians we are very careful what we discuss, theologically, until we determine the general mind set of those involved. When we do discuss something up for interpretation, we pick our words carefully.

 

Don't throw out the baby with the bath water, so to speak. Try not to focus on that which divides but that which encourages unity. But, stay personally strong in your own convictions. I liken it to Paul's admonition not to eat food sacrificed to idols with a weaker brother for whom this would be a problem. Though the meat itself is just meat and you have been convicted of not shunning it, your brother may not be able to process this and will have a real problem with it. So, eat it with those who can handle it, and avoid it with those that can't. This is what we do. We will discuss our beliefs with those who can handle it, not have it shake them up or rile them up, and who are interested in honest inquiry. We don't bring it up with those that would have an issue unless posed with a direct inquiry in which we'd have to lie in order to get out of that discussion. Then we share, let the chips fall where they may, but are careful how we word it and to not make it personal even if the other party gets ruffled and begins ad hominem attacks.

 

We don't have a lot of friends, just a tiny circle who know us well and accept what we believe and the fact that this is not a make or break issue for salvation or Jesus following. We are acquaintances of many and nothing more than that. It's not so bad. We don't belong to any homeschool groups because all of them in this area require one to believe or say that you believe in an exceptionally narrow theology with no room for discourse.

 

Agree to disagree in love. Don't disregard everything someone says because you disagree with one point. But, if you see an unloving, unGodly, confrontational attitude from someone, then do avoid them if possible. Life is too short for that stress. It's worked pretty well for us.

 

Also, if it means that you don't serve much in a church or Christian ministry. That's okay. That is better than being hypocritical and paying lip-service to something you do not believe in order to be included or to be allowed to "serve". The guilt of "not doing" is not of God and is usually a symptom of misguided outside pressure. God does not want us guilt-tripped into doing anything. He seeks a willing, joyful servant.

 

BTDT,

Faith

[kokotg]

Disciples of Christ is all about theological questioning/disagreement/ecumenicalism and all that. The one we attend is on the liberal end of things, but many of them are much more conservative.

[mommymilkies]

I feel your pain. I was raised Jewish & Catholic. I am somewhere between UU, agnostic, and a hundred other things. The problem is there is just no UU or Liberal Quaker church or anything of the sort around here. We're in a very Conservative area and it's quite lonely. :(

[kchara]

Disciples of Christ is all about theological questioning/disagreement/ecumenicalism and all that. The one we attend is on the liberal end of things, but many of them are much more conservative.

 

LOL And, ironically, my Dad is a Disciples of Christ minister... ;) I suppose I should've thought of them first, huh? Thank you for the replies everyone. :) I knew I couldn't be the only one out here feeling like this.

[katemary63]

Okay, I'm answering because you asked. Please take my thoughts in the kindest light as they are meant.

 

You should ask yourself, "What would God think about this situation?" and find your answers in scripture. He wants you to fellowship with the body. He wants you to be at peace and in relationship with your Christian family, your brothers and sisters in Christ. He does want to use his people to, as you said, "refresh" you and visa vera. So, *and this is said very gently, with no criticism attached*, do you really think you are the only one who thinks differently? Don't you think God KNOWS all about this situation? Do you realize there are many, many people who feel like you do? Of course there are differences in idiology. But we are one body. If you don't think you fit, you will just have to look inward and figure out why you don't and then how you can. We CAN "fit" even when we don't agree on everything. One idea might be to redefine "fit in." Think about what it means to you. Maybe if all the people who "don't fit in anywhere" got together and just praised God together and served their fellow man, they'd realize that they really do fit - with each other!

 

In our homeschool co-op we've got faiths of all kinds from Catholic to Assembly. I am neither and there are tennets of both faiths that I whole heartedly disagree with (and even some I think are dangerous). But some of these ladies are my best friends. I can love them, socialize with them, respect them, even talk about faith with them and minister along side them without conflict. I love them unconditionally. That they believe something different then I (within the pale of orthodox Christianity) does not effect that. I could easily attend a catholic church and even some charismatic churches and find a way to worship and minister alongside my brothers and sisters. Remember, we are all on a journey of Santification. What makes us "fit" with each other is that we are on the journey, not that we are at the same place in that journey. Look around you. See all the people beloved by their Creator who are on this Journey with you. See them as your brothers and sisters. I think you'll feel differently.

 

I recently had surgery and my church family brought us meals every other day for three weeks. They sent me cards. They prayed for me. They encouraged my children and husband. They have supported us and held us up for 9 months during my disability. We could not have survived it without them. I have no idea what the theology and personal beliefs of each person who blessed us is. Does it matter? Don't let differences in thinking take you out of the family of Christ and deprive you of this kind of love that is available, precious, and vitial to a healthy, Christian life.

 

My sister says she's a Christian. She doesn't attend church for the very reasons you expressed today. Every single denomination has some tennet that she personally disagrees with, therefore, she does not fit in anywhere. That's just what she says. She has almost no contact with other Christians. (When she had back surgery, there were no meals brought to her door and she has few opportunities to bless others in the faith.) What would God say about this? I think she is in a mental trap born of a faulty line of logic and rationalizations. She needs to look inward, be honest with herself and figure out why it's easier for her to disengage from the family of Christ then to be an active member of it. I really don't think the real reason is that she alone has figured out the true truth, nobody else has and thus, there is no one for her to fellowship with.

 

We belong to a Fellowship Bible Church where everybody is welcome. We have bimonthly Community Groups where we talk about theology and study the Word. Lots of us disagree. We ask questions and debate. It's okay. We've also attended Baptist churches and other non-denominationsl churches. I'm not at all saying that being a member of a church family is easy or even should be easy. It's just like a biological family - lots of conflicts and issues. We are all still human. But it's just too easy to use these conflicts and differences as an excuse not to engage, stick it out and be a member of the Family. I've heard so many people say, "I love Jesus but I don't like other Christians very much." and I'm the first to admitt that there is a lot of hypocracy, selfishness and pride within the Church. But..again, what would God say about this. His word says that He deeply LOVES these people that some of us don't like. We need to learn to love others as God loves them. That's a whole different kind of love - a way of loving that requires deep reflection, self sacrifice, intension and committment. He wants us in relationship with each other. I for one, will stick it out. I'm committed to God, Christ and my Christian Family. I'll be your sister in Christ - no matter what.

 

I'm sorry I rambled on so. This all just came pouring out and I realize that some of it doesn't even apply to your question. Just take it for what it's worth to you! :001_smile: :grouphug:

Edited March 23, 2011 by katemary63

[hsmom23]

:iagree:I just wanted to say I agree with everything Katemary63 said!! That is an awesome post! I believe that as christians we have to learn to be real with eachother and accepting of eachother and stop being overly judgemental about things that don't matter so much. I am blessed to have a best friend that I can discuss anything with and we just work through it all! May we as christians learn to be friends with our brothers and sisters and fellowship together in unity the way Christ wanted.

 

"If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone"

Romans 12:18

Edited March 23, 2011 by hsmom23
(spelling)

[WTMCassandra]

I too am always either the most liberal in the room or the most conservative. We have found the church that best fits our core beliefs (although not all . . .) and have bit the bullet. I wish you well on your journey--you've already gotten a lot of food for thought. I just wanted to tell you that you are definitely not alone feeling that way.

[AuntieM]

Something that's on my reading list that I haven't gotten to quite yet, but which may be helpful to you, is Dietrich Bonhoeffer's Life Together. Check out the reviews on amazon. His background is Lutheran, you would just need to take that into account as you read.

[tangomoon]

I definitely hear you on the "it's always something" controversies making your head feel like exploding. Love God, love others, read your Bible ~ can't we all at least agree on those points and not let the other differences drive us apart? If I didn't love God so much and KNOW that He has done a mighty work in my life there are days I would be very tempted to run far, far away from Christianity (yesterday was one of those). I get so tired of the fear-mongering tactics and accusations of "heretic" toward anyone who doesn't agree 100% on issues for which we can never completely know on this earth (e.g. both sides can find support in the Bible). There's been some good advice given!

[JumpyTheFrog]

But, if you see an unloving, unGodly, confrontational attitude from someone, then do avoid them if possible. Life is too short for that stress.

 

I understand and appreciate katemary63's loving words. However, how does this work in practicality? We had to leave our previous church because of "irreconcilable differences" over the views of how women were treated. (I don't want to start a debate on this subject, I'm just explaining why we left.) Now I don't use these words lightly and I don't go around looking for discrimination everywhere, but how could I continue to stay in a place that treated me like a second class citizen and was sucking the life out of me? My husband tried to discuss some of these issues with the congregation and was thoroughly chewed out - once even in public, during the service. The attitude from the elders was very confrontational and they assumed the worst of us.

 

Now I have no desire to attend anywhere where it looks like women are treated as second class citizens. In my area of the country, that eliminates most churches. Add just a few other essential criteria to the list of what we're looking for and there aren't many choices left. (Although I think we may have found a denomination that might be a good match. We have to look into it more.)

 

Anyway, I can understand the original poster's frustration. When you've been spiritually abused or had church elders and even "friends" imply that you "don't really believe the bible" because of a different interpretation on a doctrine, then you really don't want to be put in that position again. So the naturally inclination is to try to find a group of people that have similar views, or at least don't feel threatened when someone disagrees (on issues other than salvation coming through faith).

[kchara]

 

Anyway, I can understand the original poster's frustration. When you've been spiritually abused or had church elders and even "friends" imply that you "don't really believe the bible" because of a different interpretation on a doctrine, then you really don't want to be put in that position again. So the naturally inclination is to try to find a group of people that have similar views, or at least don't feel threatened when someone disagrees (on issues other than salvation coming through faith).

 

Yes, and I should say that we had to leave a spiritually abusive situation last year, and only in the past 3 or 4 months, when we left the state, did we finally get free of it all.

 

I am more than willing to find a church that is even somewhat similar. There are things I am having a hard time bending on, that DH is working through with me. But... when I go to a liberal church, I"m considered "legalistic." (I'm not, but I am conservative in my beliefs.) When I go to conservative churches, I'm considered "compromising." (I'm not that, either, I just have a different view of Christianity than they might.) So, it's not that I"m not willing to bend (some things I'm not on, that's true. Usually, if it's spoken directly against in Scripture, I won't bend. If it's my interpretation, I'm willing to bend), it's that even when I bend, I feel like I'm in a darned if I do, darned if I don't situation.

 

I'm going to ask my Dad if he's heard about a local Disciples church, and check around some of the others. Thank you all for your posts. :)

[katemary63]

I understand and appreciate katemary63's loving words. However, how does this work in practicality? We had to leave our previous church because of "irreconcilable differences" over the views of how women were treated. (I don't want to start a debate on this subject, I'm just explaining why we left.) Now I don't use these words lightly and I don't go around looking for discrimination everywhere, but how could I continue to stay in a place that treated me like a second class citizen and was sucking the life out of me? My husband tried to discuss some of these issues with the congregation and was thoroughly chewed out - once even in public, during the service. The attitude from the elders was very confrontational and they assumed the worst of us.

 

Now I have no desire to attend anywhere where it looks like women are treated as second class citizens. In my area of the country, that eliminates most churches. Add just a few other essential criteria to the list of what we're looking for and there aren't many choices left. (Although I think we may have found a denomination that might be a good match. We have to look into it more.)

 

Anyway, I can understand the original poster's frustration. When you've been spiritually abused or had church elders and even "friends" imply that you "don't really believe the bible" because of a different interpretation on a doctrine, then you really don't want to be put in that position again. So the naturally inclination is to try to find a group of people that have similar views, or at least don't feel threatened when someone disagrees (on issues other than salvation coming through faith).[/QUOTE]

 

:iagree: I TOTALLY understand and agree with you! I would not attend the kind of church you are talking about! For me, that would violate a personal conviction that effected me literally, daily and constantly in my relationships with others in the congregation. If the whole congregation were unified that this was the right way to view women, and had "rules" that had to be followed that you disagreed with reguarding such, then there's not much you can do to "fit in" there. So find a church where women are respected in the way that you believe is right. There are so many of them! But don't stop going to church. And don't jump from one convicition to another until you don't "fit in anywhere". That's the kind of thing I'm talking about.

 

There really aren't that many issues within orthodox Christianity that are so vital that a difference in belief about them would cause one to be literally unable to commune with the membership of a particular congregation, but certainly, there are some. Respect of women would be one for me. Abortion is one for me. You may have others of your own. But I sincerely believe that there is an authentic group of believers for every Christ follower to belong to. The bolded part of your post is key! Keep looking!

 

(I highly recommend the Fellowship Bible Churches. They are all over the country. We LOVE ours! :001_smile:)

Edited March 24, 2011 by katemary63