Starting college as an adult/self education?

[dancer67]

I have been looking into starting college, and possibly go into nursing. My first question is this.

 

If there is such a shortage of nurses, why do colleges make their nursing programs so hard to get into, and only accept maybe 10-20 students per year?

 

They also require all these pre-req's to get in, such as all these maths, English, sciences, foreign languages. And this is only to get into a two year RN program???? And the pre-req's could take you almost 2 years to get through. And only then, you can apply into the program, and if you are denied, you have to re-apply the following September.

 

I just don't get it.

 

I have a strong medical hackground. I worked for years as a CNA. But not only that, I had my nose buried in medical books all the time. I still do. I can almost guarantee I can run circles around any nursing student when it comes to treating, diagnosing, patient care, medical terminology, pharmacology, etc. Not tootin my own horn, but for some reason it all comes very easy to me, and even as a young child I did a ton of reading.

 

I have read and took quizzes on almost every college nursing textbook, and aced it. No, I have not done any clinical for obvious reasons.

 

But the kicker is, I have to do all these pre-req's. I hate math with a passion. And truth be told, there is not that much math involved in nursing. And English. Every single course you want to get into required English, but that's okay if it is already included in your credits to graduate.

For nursing, it isn't. You just have to have it, pass it with a certain grade, and make sure it is on your application for nursing school.

 

Well, what if you already KNOW most of the material? Or even ALL of it?

I am assuming you cannot self educate on the book portion of nursing can you:001_huh:

 

I guess I do not understand why I keep hearing there is such a shortage, yet colleges are not admitting nursing students in large numbers.

[Tarreymere]

Well, a nursing program is not easy and that is why there are prerequisites. There is a certain amount of math involved in figuring out dosages and drip rates, and as a nurse you are liable if you don't double check what comes from pharmacy or what the doctor ordered. But I think that the biggest reason behind the smaller class size would be the limitations placed on the school by the surrounding healthcare facilities. Hospitals do allow schools to bring in students to do clinical rotations but the hospital staff do not want to be overrun. It can be difficult to find enough places for students to do each required clinical experience.

[Mona100]

Not only is there a shortage of RNs but there is a shortage of upper level RNs to teach 2 year RNs. Have you ever thought about becoming a LPN and then doing a RN program based on that, some places have that sorta program. Maybe you could bypass some prereq's by doing that.

[Retired]

I have been a RN for 20 years. I have been a clinical instructor but not a classroom instructor/professor because I do not have a masters.

 

The problem is that a master level nurse educator makes less money than a staff nurse in the hospital.

 

The schools just can't staff enough of the the Nurse Educator because most that get the degree go back to bedside nursing to make more money!

 

SO the answer to the nursing shortage which is caused by the small offering of nurse classes. PAY NURSE EDUCATORS MORE MONEY.

 

I have dreamed of years of getting my nurse educator master degree but I literally would make less money and still have student loans for a degree that is worth less monetarily

 

Most nurse that go after higher degree want do the Nurse educator anymore when they can double their salary as nurse practitioner, nurse anesthetist, etc.

 

Well now you see the problem.

[fairfarmhand]

if you are so familiar with college level material, why not try some CLEP tests for all the prerequisites? Then you could cut short some of your college classes, by testing out of them.

[kiana]

Nursing programs are very expensive to run and tuition does not pay for them. Nursing instructors cost far more than instructors in something like history, and are still underpaid relative to what they would get in industry. Nursing programs are also limited by available clinical sites. This is why you have limited seats.

 

With respect to the prerequisites, it makes sense that if you can only admit a small percentage of applicants, that you should take those who are most likely to succeed and have already passed all required courses other than the nursing ones. Then you don't have someone who's doing well on the clinical side but failing Anatomy and needs to be dismissed. It does stink for people like you -- but really, schools kinda have to make policies for the 95%, not the 5%.

[Pretty in Pink]

If you have truly mastered the material you have described then you can probably CLEP math and English, possibly chemistry. At my school the only classes that you are required to take in advance are one math course (college algebra), one chemistry course (either intro to chemistry or chem I), and A&P I & II. You can actually get in with just A&P I, but admission to the nursing program at my school is set up on a points system, and both A&P I & II are worth a lot of points.

 

The program is very demanding, that is one reason that it is strongly recommended that you take all other courses before starting the program. And the program is costly to the college, which is why they prefer to admit well-established students. A student who has been working for two years toward admittance is more likely to stick with the program when the going gets tough that someone who was admitted during their first semester.

 

Your CNA experience might allow you to apply for some sort of special consideration. I know that LPNs get special consideration at my school, but I don't know about CNAs.

[dancer67]

I guess I should have clarified this.

 

I could never CLEP Math and English.

 

But, if the offered CLEP for Anatomy and Physiology, I would CLEP those.

 

The LPN program has the same pre-req's, and is just as hard to get into. The only difference is that it is a shorter amount of time to get your LPN.

 

It is so confusing. Is appying to college supposed to be this complicated?

 

I agree they need to pay nurse educators more money. They have a hard time keeping them at our local colleges.

 

It is tough to get into any medical programs here. Radiology, sonography(Which is another one of my choices) etc.

 

I don't know. I will have to think about it.

[katemary63]

Off topic:

 

I'm told my nurse friends that nurses in the central AR area can not get a job? Don't know why, but it seems we don't have a shortage here.

[dancer67]

Could be the area?

 

They are dying her for nurses. Also, Ultrasound Techs. They can't get enough of them. Again, that is a highly selective program and only ONE college offers it around here.

 

Someone I know came out of U/S and landed a job that paid $28.00/hr. Imagine that. Geesh.

 

RN's here are starting in the mid 50's per year.

[ocelotmom]

If there is such a shortage of nurses, why do colleges make their nursing programs so hard to get into, and only accept maybe 10-20 students per year?

1. Because the nursing shortage is a bit of a myth (apparently not in your area - I'm curious as to where you are! But nationwide in the US). They may need more nurses, but they aren't hiring, especially not new graduates. I graduated nearly a year ago. While I probably have the most extenuating circumstances, I'm far from the only one in my class without a job yet. And that's from one of the most respected, competitive programs in a major metropolitan area.

 

2. Because nursing schools require a lot of teachers - they need a clinical instructor for each group of 5-10 students. Usually working within nursing pays better than teaching, so finding teachers can be difficult. Lack of space in hospitals, as someone else mentioned, is also an issue. Hospitals where I went to school have as many student nurses on the floor as they can handle basically every day and evening shift, even weekends.

 

3. Nursing is an academically strenuous program, where students are, while in school, directly responsible for the health and welfare of people. They want excellent, responsible students, not the person who wants to go into nursing for the money who had to take A&P 5 times to get a C.

 

They also require all these pre-req's to get in, such as all these maths, English, sciences, foreign languages. And this is only to get into a two year RN program???? And the pre-req's could take you almost 2 years to get through. And only then, you can apply into the program, and if you are denied, you have to re-apply the following September.

All I can say is yes. It's a serious program. Nurses are the front line in patient care in the hospital (Which isn't to diss CNA's, since I know they're often the ones having the most frequent patient contact and the good ones may be the first to identify problems - but assessment is specifically the RN's job). Some facility in math and science is really truly necessary in order to practice safely.

 

And yeah, it totally sucks to do 3-4 years of schooling and end up with "only" an Associate's degree, which isn't well-respected, especially outside of those familiar with nursing. And especially since the coursework is much more rigorous than many Bachelor's degree programs.

 

I have a strong medical hackground. I worked for years as a CNA. But not only that, I had my nose buried in medical books all the time. I still do. I can almost guarantee I can run circles around any nursing student when it comes to treating, diagnosing, patient care, medical terminology, pharmacology, etc. Not tootin my own horn, but for some reason it all comes very easy to me, and even as a young child I did a ton of reading.

Not going to say your self-perception isn't correct, and you'll definitely have a leg up on the students with no patient care experience... but an awful lot of CNAs and LPNs get into nursing school and discover it's much more than they'd thought.

 

But the kicker is, I have to do all these pre-req's. I hate math with a passion. And truth be told, there is not that much math involved in nursing. And English. Every single course you want to get into required English, but that's okay if it is already included in your credits to graduate.

The math in nursing isn't particularly advanced, but you do need to be really solid in what there is, because the outcome can be serious if you're wrong. It's not as big a deal in most modern hospitals, with premeasured doses and medication pumps, but you'll still be expected to know how to do all the calculations manually.

 

Most of the math is at an Algebra I level or below. Most programs (especially Associate's) I've seen require up through Algebra II, which isn't really that much math. Beyond that would probably be overkill as a prereq, but being solid in the math there is really is necessary.

Edited March 21, 2011 by ocelotmom

[Michelle in AL]

I'm a nurse, I just started back doing 2 12 hrs shifts per week and just got admitted to Nurse Practitioner school.

 

From what I've heard, the limited number of students is due to a limited number of instructors.

 

I can see the need for per reqs. I use the math part everyday. I'm constantly using algebraic ratios to calculate drugs and IV drip rates. I think a lot of the classes prepare you for a background for upper level classes. Chemistry prepares you for pharmacology. History and geography prepares you for dealing with different cultures, psych is used constantly. Writing skills are necessary for any advanced position.

 

From what they say on allnurses.com there are many places with an abundance of nurses and new grads aren't finding jobs. I think the nursing schools try to keep a fine tune on their numbers to be sure there isn't a gluttony of nurses out there.

 

Having just returned to hopsital nursing after working in a peds clinic, I will say that it is the most physically demanding work I've ever done. I worked in hospitals for yrs 15 yrs ago and it wasn't this stressful and physically hard. The patients are SO SICK, and hospitals stretch nurses to the thinnest in order to save money. I feel the need to say this to anyone considering nursing school, consider shadowing a nurse for a day in your area before applying, things have changed at least in the hospital and clinics don't pay well.

[Michelle in AL]

I agree with Ocelot mom too about nurses being the front line of health care. They need to be the top of the class and they need to be able to think on their feet and have proven that before they get to the hospital. So much relies on their judgement. Peoples lives are literally in their hands. I go home at night haunted by the thought that I might've done someone harm.

[GraciebytheBay]

I am doing the same thing! I am starting in the summer and can't wait.

 

The college I will be attending accepts 30 credits from CLEP tests, and you can bet I plan to take advantage of that! The tests are mostly multiple choice (except for English Comp, then there is an essay). They are worth 90 points, and most colleges give you credit for getting only 50. It sounds like this would be a great option for you.

[dancer67]

I wonder if Sonography might be a better choice. My only thing, is that I have always wanted to be a nurse. Nothing else. I started volunteering in a hosptial as young as 10 years old(Yes, you could actually do that "back then")

 

I took the CNA course while in High School.

 

Started CC right into Nursing(When you could actually just apply and go) but dropped because I decided I wanted to get married.

 

Still married. Just no degree.

 

I live in New England. There are so many hospitals here(And the very best in the country) so I am sure getting a job would not be an issue.

 

But I am not so sure I would want to work in a hospital. Many new grads start at Nursing Homes to get their feet wet, and go from there.

 

There was one hospital here recruiting nurses. And offering a HUGE sign on bonus. Plus free medical insurance for the family for a year.

 

They are dying here for nurses.

[Jane in NC]

Regarding the Mathematics requirement:

 

A university where I formerly taught had a popular master's in nursing program. One of the prerequisites for the program was a Statistics course which I taught every summer.

 

Do nurses takes stats only for graduate programs or is that now a part of the RN curriculum?

[ocelotmom]

Regarding the Mathematics requirement:

 

A university where I formerly taught had a popular master's in nursing program. One of the prerequisites for the program was a Statistics course which I taught every summer.

 

Do nurses takes stats only for graduate programs or is that now a part of the RN curriculum?

Many BSN programs require it as a prerequisite.

[Michelle in AL]

My BSN program had it as a pre-req too.