m0mmaBuck Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 We tried WWE last year (2nd grade) but because he needed some remedial work in phonics and spelling, WWE was just too frustrating. We focused on spelling (still his kryptonite), penmanship, and grammar/phonics last year and this year, working through SWO C & D, FLL 1 & 2, and Rod and Staff 3 (should be finished by the end of this school year). For writing, we have gone the copywork/dictation/narration/summarization route using science, history, and literature as sources. Do I need a separate writing program? If so, what do you recommend and why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2_girls_mommy Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Just :bigear: here as I am planning 4th grade too. So far we have done the same thigs as you have: R&S through 3rd grade and copywork, dictation, narration in all subjects. I just ordered a catalog from IEW. I am considering them, but don't know if I will for next year or not. My plan is to buy the talks from SWB on the PHP site on grammar stage writing. Then I got some free talks from Andrew Pudewa on the IEW site too. So I am going to listen to all of those and decide then if I need to purchase something. I am no help except to give you some places to look, sorry! Looking forward to see what others say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0mmaBuck Posted March 15, 2011 Author Share Posted March 15, 2011 Anyone with experience? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m4given Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 :lurk5: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0mmaBuck Posted March 17, 2011 Author Share Posted March 17, 2011 Anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2_girls_mommy Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I am kind of bummed. I was hoping to hear what others have done too.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in CA Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) How are his summary and dictation skills? I would move on to paragraph writing only when a student is fairly competent at these skills. Rather than move on according to age or grade level, I would assess the student's particular progress. I have used R&S grammar for levels 3-7. Although the writing lessons seem fairly simple and almost too easy, they are solid. Many other writing programs I've looked at actually cover the same material. If you want to supplement the copywork/dictation/summary, I think R&S lessons would be a good place to start. Talk your child through the writing lessons in there (they are conveniently marked with an asterisk in the TOC) and see if he is able to benefit from them. It wouldn't cost you a lot of extra money either! Susan Wise Bauer recommends in The Well-Trained Mind R&S writing lessons as being "enough" for 4th grade. Another great resource for parents to teach writing informally is Any Child Can Write. It helped me have conversations with my children about their writing across the curriculum, without needing specific curriculum all the time. Edited March 17, 2011 by Jean in CA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shannon in TN Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I can't really speak for 4th grade because my dd is still in 3rd but I did pick up Wordsmith Apprentice for her for next year. It looks fun because of the way it's designed as having the student being a journalist for a newspaper and writing articles and such. I tried WWE for 2nd grade and dd and I were bored to TEARS with it, so we quit that early on and just stuck with CLE 200. This year, we're still doing CLE but I've added journal writing in a notebook with different prompts everyday and it seems plenty. I know it's not much, but I hope it helps you a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmericanMom Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I don't know if you need a separate writing program or not, you know your child better than anyone else; but my favorite writing program for that age is Classical Writing Aesop (you could skip to B for a 4th grader). You can check out the scope and sequence on their website (www.classicalwriting.com) to see if it would be helpful or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0mmaBuck Posted March 17, 2011 Author Share Posted March 17, 2011 How are his summary and dictation skills? I would move on to paragraph writing only when a student is fairly competent at these skills. Rather than move on according to age or grade level, I would assess the student's particular progress. I have used R&S grammar for levels 3-7. Although the writing lessons seem fairly simple and almost too easy, they are solid. Many other writing programs I've looked at actually cover the same material. If you want to supplement the copywork/dictation/summary, I think R&S lessons would be a good place to start. Talk your child through the writing lessons in there (they are conveniently marked with an asterisk in the TOC) and see if he is able to benefit from them. It wouldn't cost you a lot of extra money either! Susan Wise Bauer recommends in The Well-Trained Mind R&S writing lessons as being "enough" for 4th grade. Another great resource for parents to teach writing informally is Any Child Can Write. It helped me have conversations with my children about their writing across the curriculum, without needing specific curriculum all the time. We already use R&S so maybe I'm on the right track. His dictation and summary skills have improved in the last few months and we've been working on paragraph construction (topic sentence with 2-3 related sentences) for his science project summaries. We probably have plenty of writing going on (writing letters, writting summaries of science projects, using the narrations in SOTW so that I read and he tries to write verbatum but usually ends up paraphrasing, and keeping a journal) along with Rod and Staff. Thanks for the input! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0mmaBuck Posted March 17, 2011 Author Share Posted March 17, 2011 I can't really speak for 4th grade because my dd is still in 3rd but I did pick up Wordsmith Apprentice for her for next year. It looks fun because of the way it's designed as having the student being a journalist for a newspaper and writing articles and such. I tried WWE for 2nd grade and dd and I were bored to TEARS with it, so we quit that early on and just stuck with CLE 200. This year, we're still doing CLE but I've added journal writing in a notebook with different prompts everyday and it seems plenty. I know it's not much, but I hope it helps you a little. That sounds interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxing Hare Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I started mine in home2teach in 4th grade. It's a web/e-mail based program. We have done 3 classes so far, and they have all been great. My kids e-mail their papers, then the teacher corrects them and e-mails them back. There are a minimum of 3 corrections, but sometimes more. I think the most it's come back is 6 times. I like this program because I don't have enough experience to know what a child their age should be writing like. In the beginning of 4th, I showed a paper to my son's English teacher at his old private school. She said that it was not at all on level with what he should be doing. It was free of grammar errors, so I thought it was fine. But the substance just wasn't there. There have been several threads about this program, with some really negative experiences. I guess it would really depend on which teacher you get. I don't think the online "classes" are very helpful. I really wish we could skip those. But the feedback we get on the papers is great. Plus, I feel that my kids try harder for their teacher then they would for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamalbh Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I haven't found any modern day writing programs that I like. Here are some that I use: Primary Lessons in Language and Composition The Progressive Composition Lessons Speaking and Writing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.... Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) Hi, I have a 9 yro. We've been using WWE3, but for this coming school year, we're not using a specific writing program. I've been listening to SWB's audio lectures and have realized that I don't have to use a writing program if I'm consistent with writing throughout the school year. :D OK, so I've been consistent lately. Here's what our fourth grade writing is going to be (we've already started): She has a 5-subject notebook divided into main subjects Every day, for at least 2 subjects - she jots down some notes, copies a sentence, I dictate a sentence to her (from her reading) or we do a narration. She's responsible for writing her own narration (which she can do). Halfway thru the school year, we're going to transition into logic stage writing - how to write a one-level outline, narrative summary, and I'm going to walk her through literary essay expectations (I think for 5th grade, they're supposed to write half a page, but I may be wrong). By the start of 5th grade, she should be able to 1x a week write a one-level outline from a text, 2x a week write narrative summary (half page), and 1x a week write a literary essay (from fiction). Have you listened to the audio lectures? They cleared up a lot of my own questions! I listened to them a couple of times and took notes. Lol! :D Edited March 17, 2011 by starrbuck12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAutumnOak Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 We tried WWE last year (2nd grade) but because he needed some remedial work in phonics and spelling, WWE was just too frustrating. We focused on spelling (still his kryptonite), penmanship, and grammar/phonics last year and this year, working through SWO C & D, FLL 1 & 2, and Rod and Staff 3 (should be finished by the end of this school year). For writing, we have gone the copywork/dictation/narration/summarization route using science, history, and literature as sources. Do I need a separate writing program? If so, what do you recommend and why? I don't think you do need a seperate writing program...My son is in 4th now and is also doing some remedial work...We are using Rod & Staff Grammar 4, and also doing copywork/dictation/narration/summarization...You are doing SWO (which I am going to start), we are doing Rod & Staff Spelling 4...According to everything I have read in WTM, that is all we need at this point...Next year when my son is in 5th, I will start to use the summarization questions used in WTM to work on his expository writing a little more, but other than that we will just continue with Rod and Staff... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sew happily ever after Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Have you looked at writing tales? We have enjoyed it thoroughly this year. Level1 is for grades 3 or 4. Level 2 is for grades 4 or 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJinLOCA Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 We used "Wordsmith Apprentice" for two of my kids, and LOVED it! It's engaging, informative, and clever. The lessons are short and not as thorough and in-depth as what you get in Rod & Staff, but they're fun and entertaining (which made all the difference for my rather reluctant writers). We tried to graduate to the regular "Wordsmith" with my older DD, but it was nowhere near as good. I can't recommend "Wordsmith Apprentice" highly enough, though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanne115 Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 My daughter loved Writing Tales. She is an early writer so we are finishing up Writing Tales 2 this year for third grade. I only wish they had another level! Suzanne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momling Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 How about Killgallon for writing at a sentence level? I'd supplement with a workbook dealing with sentence mechanics to address problems with capitalization and punctuation. My feeling is that there is little point to working on organizing paragraphs or essays if a child can't articulate their ideas (with good structure and mechanics) at a sentence level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sewpeaceful Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 It is my understanding from TWTM that if your child is doing a good job with written narrations in science and history AND doing R&S, you are doing fine with writing at this point. But if you want a seperate writing program or if your student is struggling with dictation and narrations, she recommends testing the student to do WWE, which you said you don't like, or Voyager? It is in the book. I wish I could get it right now but I am recovering from surgery and not allowed out of bed. You mentioned spelling issues? My dd had them too. She'd pass the test on Friday and 2 weeks later she couldn't remember the spelling or the rule. We moved over to spelling via a dictation program (free on Google Books). She has made huge strides in spelling since then. The book is Dictation Day by Day: A Modern Speller. If you google it, you should find it. Grades 2-6 are out there for free. Feel free to PM me if you want or need to know how to do spelling via dictation. Good luck! It sounds like your guy is doing fine from what I understand of our kids at this level (I have a rising 4th too). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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